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Panasonic DMR-E85H error U99
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Kassel
Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 10:09 |
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FFoldwoman, my expectation is you will learn that you recorded some of those shows at a format incompatible with high speed recording. You may have had a glitch or power outage that somehow reset some program to the default normal setting. When you reset it it allow high speed recording, your shows recorded before you reset it, will be normal only. I have two or three on my hard drive that way. I will record them to disk at normal speed sometime when I can actually sit and watch the film at the same time, methinks.
RE" Please Wait glitch, I suggest unplugging to force some kind of reset. REad this thread and the manual, there are ways around it even if you don't want to do some capacitor changes etc.
Repairman. Thanks for your concerns. However, I once had a janitor tell me I could not walk across a dry lunchroom floor because he was the only one trained and authorized to officially declare that it was now safe to walk across the floor. I told him I would take responsibility for my actions. He later whined that it was unsafe for me to recklessly choose to walk across the floor that an untrained eye like mine assumed was now "dry". We yanks are daredevils, are we not? Heheh.
kingkassel@aol.com
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Kassel
Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 10:19 |
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I think I see a key cause of the Please Wait Self Check Glitch.
I used to think it was a function of just cheaper media. I mainly buy mine now only at Staples or other reputable companies. However, even a good disk can choke out the system if you put it in too soon.
I had adopted a new plan about a week ago, to install a fresh new disk in the tray whenever it was open to allow me to remove a disk I had just recorded. For me, this is not a good idea.
When I have the tray opened to remove my freshly finalized disk, the system is set to DVD rather than HDD, right? Well, when the tray closed in DVD mode with a blank disk, it triggers a self check, please wait warning most of the time! Best bet, always switch back to HDD, and then click the dubbing function, BEFORE you put in the new blank disk. Much less trouble this way. One of the self checks even knocked out my tv guide for a couple of days this week with the errant misstep. K
kingkassel@aol.com
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Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 14:56 |
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Originally posted by REPAIRMAN:
Here in the U.K. people cannot mess with gas fitments unless they are C.O.R.G.I. registered (criminal offence) perhaps its time to have the same with electronic engineers.
I hope I never have to live in a country that forces people to call an electrician when a lightbulb needs changing. The vassfamily guy did a good job getting his recorder fixed. As long as he doesn't use it while taking a bath, the risk of shock and fire are zero.
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LCoop
Junior Member
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21. February 2008 @ 16:41 |
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Originally posted by Jgreaves:
OK I just started having problems with my Panasonic DMR-E85H it will only show PLEASE WAIT on the lcd screen the unit will not do anything else.....((snip))... ANY HELP WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED... I'M ABOUT TO PULL MY HAIR OUT.
eternal "Please Wait" message - same problem as with mine - fixed for $8 by replacing the capacitors (capacitors $3, solder guy $5) - see my message about it on page 69 of this thread.
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REPAIRMAN
Junior Member
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22. February 2008 @ 18:41 |
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Originally posted by FurryFace:
Originally posted by REPAIRMAN:
Here in the U.K. people cannot mess with gas fitments unless they are C.O.R.G.I. registered (criminal offence) perhaps its time to have the same with electronic engineers.
I hope I never have to live in a country that forces people to call an electrician when a lightbulb needs changing. The vassfamily guy did a good job getting his recorder fixed. As long as he doesn't use it while taking a bath, the risk of shock and fire are zero.
The Vassfamily guy did such a good repair--I don`t think so--he could not even use the correct tempreature capacitors.The ones shown on that so good post were 85degree and Panasonic originals are rated at 105 degree. If the originals lasted a couple of years then these replacements will not last 12 months, they are wrong temp rated,are axial constructed(should be radial) and the wrong type to put into a power supply.As regards light bulbs, are you STILL capable of buying such things in other countries ?--we use mainly low energy,high efficiency and very long lasting discharge lamps in the U.K.
Now to get back to the subject of safety, the post with the caps I showed to two of my friends who are fellow engineers and they were shocked at what they saw--they have both seen the after effects of people`s mods to equipment usually after the local fire service have been to put the blaze out and the one posted should not be fixed as it was shown. Please don`t put your lives at risk by doing a bodge like this--bear in mind that all the time your Panasonic is plugged into the mains supply then these incorrect type and fitted caps are sitting there waiting to go up in smoke,even when the power switch is off , most ,if not all of this power supply is working
REPAIRMAN
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Kassel
Junior Member
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22. February 2008 @ 21:29 |
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To Repair, or NOT to repair, that is the question!
Well, if Repairman's concerns are valid, sounds like it would be wise to use 105 degree radial capacitors if they are available. I guess I would have to ask our engineer friend, however, why there were no fires when the 105 volt capacitors failed on so many different machines. Furthermore, I think the Vass capacitors have already been around more than a year.
Can someone enlighten me on the ecological risks of the gas filled tubes now being promoted over traditional light bulbs? Oh, and forward that to our friend Repairman lest he perish from the pollution, heheh.
kingkassel@aol.com
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Magnum19
Newbie
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22. February 2008 @ 21:30 |
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Furryface,
I showed my best friend Repairman's post about fire, etc. He is a 25+ year veteran Electronics Engineer for a major Television Network in the US. Keep in mind, he repairs much more complicated units than the Panasonic DMR we are discussing-- every single day.
Here's what he said when I asked his opinion on this capacitor debate:
"Truth be known, even if the absolute wrong capacitors were put in, the most that would happen is that they would pop and stink up the place.
No flames. No house burned down.
Every DVR, VCR, RADIO, (etc.) made has a little glass enveloped piece of metal in it to cut power to the unit in the event of excessive
current draw. It is called a FUSE!
Post that!"
This is the same person I have asked to repair my machine.
(I'll be sure to update you all in case my house burns down.)
Thanks to everyone who actually helped with the repair info!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2008 @ 12:22
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mrbill2
Newbie
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23. February 2008 @ 05:41 |
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If anyone is having a hard time finding the proper caps to fix the panasonic power supply, I was able to find some good replacements at hsc is santa clara, ca. They had:
16v 680uf 105 degree radial (slightly taller than what was oem on the pcb)
25v 1000uf 105 degree radial (the next size up taller and diamater)
Both caps fit fine. The 25v still fit flat on the pcb(or nearly flat). Thats what I put in mine. I would have to open mine up to confirm its in there flat.
The caps were pretty cheap(less than $.50 each). Not sure if HSC does mail order for all their inventory(the online site on lists a few items). But if you really can't find them locally, I will offer to pick some up and mail them to you for cost.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2008 @ 05:42
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Junior Member
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23. February 2008 @ 09:24 |
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Originally posted by mrbill2:
I was able to find some good replacements at hsc is santa clara, ca. They had:
16v 680uf 105 degree radial (slightly taller than what was oem on the pcb)
25v 1000uf 105 degree radial (the next size up taller and diamater.
When I went to HSC a few months ago they had the exact value with a higher voltage rating. They are also 105C so REPAIRMAN need not worry:-) I bought 4 there and here's what they look like:
They measure fine in a capacitance meter. How they perform in-circuit is unknown. From what I've read, only an ESR meter can show whether an electrolytic capacitor is good. Visual inspections or measuring the capacitance out-of-circuit aren't enough.
Anyway, I never installed the new caps as the ones in my E85 seem to work fine. This will be a busy weekend for the E85 as it's Oscar time and I look forward to recording the whole thing for later watching and fast-forwarding through all the dull parts (which usually works out to all but 20 minutes of the show:-)
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LCoop
Junior Member
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23. February 2008 @ 13:30 |
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Originally posted by REPAIRMAN:
.......The Vassfamily guy did such a good repair--I don`t think so--he could not even use the correct tempreature capacitors.The ones shown on that so good post were 85degree and Panasonic originals are rated at 105 degree......
REPAIRMAN
I'M CONFUSED - PLEASE DO NOT EVER GIVE A TEMPERATURE NUMBER WITHOUT A 'C' OR 'F' AFTER IT FOR CENTIGRADE OR FAHRENHEIT! (aimed at everyone, not just Repairman - who I am very grateful to have on this site) -
ANYWAY THE RADIO SHACK CAPACITOR #272-1032 IS MAX RATED 85F ACCORDING TO THEIR WEBSITE - IF THE PANASONIC RATING IS 105C THEN THE RADIO SHACK ITEM (THAT I PUT IN MY MACHINE!) IS WAAAAAY UNDER SPEC!!!! (YES THIS IS ALL CAPS - I'M CONCERNED!)
(ps - more than one BIG project has been ruined by failing to precisely specify between centigrade/fahrenheit, inches/centimeters, milligrams/micrograms, etc. - please always specify)
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LCSHG
Senior Member
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23. February 2008 @ 15:59 |
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The Post by --- Magnum19
Your friend is, --- 100% RIGHT ON
The Posts by --- REPAIRMAN
Are off the wall. and a post referring to light bulbs was just a point. Not an issue
Your Quote
bear in mind that all the time your Panasonic is plugged into the mains supply then these incorrect type and fitted caps are sitting there waiting to go up in smoke,even when the power switch is off , most ,if not all of this power supply is working
------------------------------------------------------------------
That is not so --- And keep in mind that a certified or licensed person does not necessarily know very much about whatever they are certified for, but that they were able to pass a so called test and had the funds required to be certified
The Post by --- LCoop
Quote
#272-1032 IS MAX RATED 85F ACCORDING TO THEIR WEBSITE
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I had not seen an electronic part rated in F [Fahrenheit] and checked, as this value made no sense, only some 13 degree above house temp,
According to the Radio Shack Web Site
The #272- 1032 --- 35WVDC operating temperature: --40 to +85°C
That?s 185 degree F.
Most part failure such as that mentioned is due to a unit not being given proper ventilation, or the part itself was defective to begin with
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LCoop
Junior Member
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23. February 2008 @ 16:56 |
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Originally posted by LCSHG:
The Post by --- LCoop
Quote
#272-1032 IS MAX RATED 85F ACCORDING TO THEIR WEBSITE
------------------------------------------------------
I had not seen an electronic part rated in F [Fahrenheit] and checked, as this value made no sense, only some 13 degree above house temp,
According to the Radio Shack Web Site
The #272- 1032 --- 35WVDC operating temperature: --40 to +85°C
That?s 185 degree F.
Most part failure such as that mentioned is due to a unit not being given proper ventilation, or the part itself was defective to begin with
thanks LCSHG thats reassuring - that radio shack capacitor - yes now I see on the "front page", down a little, it does say -40 to +85 centigrade - I missed that and on the tech specs tab which is what i clicked on, it says that IN FAHRENHEIT - !!!!! - radio shack website screwup.
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LCSHG
Senior Member
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23. February 2008 @ 19:35 |
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LCoop
It sounds as the unit was repaired OK
The only real difference between the Axial or Radial units are the location of the ? and + leads
The axial, from both ends. The Radial, from one end. The only constraint in using the axial [mainly height] would be space available. Where a radial lead unit is not available a Axial unit will often fit ok if an extra length of lead is soldered on, usually the ? end, and bent over so as the leads fit the circuit board. If the leads need to be bent to fit, that?s ok. If not sure of proper insulation, a piece of shrink wrap can be slid over the lead prior to soldering to the main board. Or just wrap the entire unit with electrical tape
On a power supply the uf capacity of a unit is not that critical. .If you have to vary, opt for a larger value that is as close as possible..
Edit
Just because the original unit indicates 105 c, does not mean that is a true value.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 23. February 2008 @ 19:56
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REPAIRMAN
Junior Member
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25. February 2008 @ 15:29 |
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Hi all, I thought i`d get flamed for my last post,so I must reply to all you opinions out there.
1. Radial capacitors are fitted so that if the electrolyte dries up as they do in use(due to heat) then the gas that is produced is vented out of the top of the capacitor which is what you see when the top has bulged and that grotty brown stuff ouses out.Axial caps do not have that safety valve.
2. Temp rating at 105deg C is the max rating for continuous use. In these recorders due to the insane design ,they are fitted in the smallest of spaces possible with vey poor ventilation. I have scrapped units before now because of scorch marks on the pcb`s making the board material conductive.
3. Type of cap is important as I have been on the receiving end of badly fitted and incorrect caps in power supplies and I`ve got the scars to proove it
4. 25 years in the trade is a short time--(try 40 years) I have been in the industry repairing everything from old type projection sets with mains derived EHT circuits(Lethal if you get stuck across one)through valved transmission equipment for piped tv networks, valved colour tv`s to the modern monsters (up to 103 inch Plasmas.) I have seen a lot and repaired a lot more!
5. As regards fuses,I have seen an awfull amount of units in my time as an engineer where someone has fitted the wrong fuses and its come to light when the unit is in for repair.The ones that don`t show up only do so when the fire brigade have been called. It happened this week in my home town, a bodged repair by the owner caused a fire and the seat of the blaze was a Video recorder that the owner had fitted a new fuse to.So relying on the fuse may not be wise!
6 The caps shown in the post of (I think Furry Face) are correct. The ones in the Vass family are not. The ones in the Vass post are the same type of cheap caps I see fitted to the crappy stuff sold by local supermarkets at stupidly cheap prices that seem to be assembled in China. I have repaired some of them when the cheap caps have leaked-caused the power supply to go unstable and pushed the EHT up over 32kv before the power supply has gone BANG
7 Please note cap temps are usually quoted in deg centigrade in uk we have forgotten about deg Farenheit--sorry
Regards
Repairman
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vulcanusa
Member
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25. February 2008 @ 16:32 |
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All,
Been surprised and pleased at the relative absence of flaming on this thread - given its page length and longevity. And let's face it, there have been a lot of opinions, and suppositions, and hypotheses expressed on the various problems we've all encountered - including my own. So, let's not start flaming now.
I have a CS background, but have had years of HW/SW integration experience (e.g. missiles, sensors, weapons systems). Still, I'm not a guy comfortable with probing a circuit board. I value Repairman's input and all of your input. In the end, each of us is ultimately responsible for weighing input and deciding a course of action when necessary. I, for one, don't want Repairman or anyone else to go away mad and cease contributing. And I really appreciate the great pics posted at http://vassfamily.net/projects/DMRE85H/dmre85h.html
It's now documented exactly where the capacitors are located in case I need - or want - to replace them. And I now have each side of a debate at my disposal on which ones to use. This is the awesome aspect of the Internet at which I regularly marvel. This would have been impossible a mere 20 years ago. Also, if I really want to invest the time to become an expert on the physics of capacitors, I'm sure I can bring the Internet to bear on that goal as well. We're all lucky bastards! ;-)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2008 @ 18:23
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Magnum19
Newbie
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25. February 2008 @ 17:19 |
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Since when does stating factual knowledge-- regardless of whether these facts debunk someone else's opinion-- qualify as "flaming" anyone?
I simply related an extremely knowledgeable, factual-- and less reactionary-- point of view to the capacitor debate.
If Repairman wants to claim my stating facts as "flaming" against him... That's his prerogative-- but certainly NOT my intention... for the following two reasons:
1) I don't have time to get into a "flame war" with anyone. I am far too busy to get into a "virtual fight" with someone I do NOT know-- whether I agree with them or not. That's not why I posted here to begin with.
2) I simply came on this board to figure out how to save my Panasonic DMR from the trash heap. With the help of several folks I have discovered out what I need to do and I am very grateful for that.
Best Wishes and Thanks to those who actually helped (you know who you are)! The others... You'll have to get into a "flame war" with someone else because I'm not playing.
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vulcanusa
Member
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25. February 2008 @ 17:46 |
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Magnum,
Responding to someone that their input is "off the wall" and then stating that being "certified" is not necessarily meaningful (when I think it's clear the qualifications of a board contributor are being targeted) - I would at least regard as lighting matches. If the same were said about your input - I doubt you'd like it, but I could be wrong. Obviously, simple disagreement is not flaming. Did I state your post was a flame? Perhaps you overlooked a post on this page.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 25. February 2008 @ 17:47
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metal321
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. February 2008 @ 07:20 |
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I just finished recording a disk in my Panasonic but now I can't finalize it. I am able to play in the panasonic, although at first it wouldn't read it and the machine crashed on me a couple of times. I noticed a couple of spots on the disk that like voids where it looks like the disk wasn't burned. I think this might have been caused by dust on the disk. Anyway, does anyone know if there is a way to finalize a disk from the panasonic in a computer. I put it in my computer and the computer says it's blank.
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REPAIRMAN
Junior Member
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27. February 2008 @ 09:39 |
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Metal321,
As far as I know you cannot finalize your disk in a computer.
The finalization of the disk in your recorder writes to the table of contents which is near the centre of the disk. The info for this is in your Panasonic recorder and not in your P.C.Thats why your computer thinks the disk is blank. One possible cause is that your ram drive is starting to show signs of wear/useage.Can you put an RW or Ram disk in the drive and format it.If the format function will not work then suspect Power Supply trouble as it cannot supply current for long enough to format the disk.
Hope this helps
REPAIRMAN
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LCoop
Junior Member
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27. February 2008 @ 11:33 |
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Originally posted by REPAIRMAN:
Metal321,
As far as I know you cannot finalize your disk in a computer.
The finalization of the disk in your recorder writes to the table of contents which is near the centre of the disk. The info for this is in your Panasonic recorder and not in your P.C.Thats why your computer thinks the disk is blank. One possible cause is that your ram drive is starting to show signs of wear/useage.Can you put an RW or Ram disk in the drive and format it.If the format function will not work then suspect Power Supply trouble as it cannot supply current for long enough to format the disk.
Hope this helps
REPAIRMAN
be nice if we could get that (panasonic? third party?) software into the computer somehow......
:-)
(already available somewhere? I know nothing about video software)
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LCSHG
Senior Member
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27. February 2008 @ 15:48 |
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Lcoop
Are you saying that the unit will Still not finalize a disk but will burn one OK. If so there is something else going on. If the power supply was intermittent I doubt it would play much less burn a disk.
Magnum19
Your Feb 20 2008 Post and your friend was as I said Right On, and was to the point
The Feb 25 P0st was also to the point
I?m 78 and retired. MY work with electrical/electroics goes back to when I was 15.
Its bothersome when one throw?s out terms like my years of experience , flamed or other terms when confronted with questions or other info, Than proceeds to go off with double talk. That induces more to not see the trees for the forest
I have 10 Liteon/ilo units and have never had a power board failure. A friend did [liteon 5005] He needed it NOW. Repair parts were not avail for a few weeks.
An PC Power supply was used, [In the units open case } and worked fine for some 3 weeks
I respect many engineers but found that many lived in a technical world and forgot there is a Real World that we live in.
vulcanusa
Your post blameing Magnum19 for the comment "Off the Wall'
I believe you will find that I made that comment and IT STANDS
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. February 2008 @ 15:59
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REPAIRMAN
Junior Member
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27. February 2008 @ 17:15 |
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Lcoop, Its not a question of software on the P.C.The track and data info from recordings are copied into the Table of Contents which serves as a directory for other recorders/players to use. This is what happens when you finalize it.It tells another recorder/player what format the disk is,what is on the disk,how much space is taken up and most important file headers(name of tracks)I wonder if a programme called " File Inspector " could be used to recover the raw data, I don`t know as I haven`t tried it. The disk will play in its own unit because it has the Table of Contents in memory(probably flash memory, similar to memory in usb sticks)onboard the unit
Repairman
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vulcanusa
Member
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27. February 2008 @ 18:40 |
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LCSHG,
I did NOT blame magnum for the "off the wall" comment. magnum interpreted repairman's post, or my post, or both as referring to magnum's post to furryface as the source of the flame. magnum's post was not a flame - as he was simply relating the facts from a friend as he knew them.
Unlike magnum's post, your post crossed the line - in my humble opinion - as it was clearly personal instead of merely stating facts. It was YOUR post to which I was referring. That is why I suggested to magnum that he must have missed a post on this page (i.e. yours). No, yours wasn't a vicious attack, but it was nonetheless at least a mild personal attack. I believe repairman has been contributing to this thread long before your arrival on the scene, and I believe his posts have been helpful and credible. I didn't want him to get pissed and stop contributing. That doesn't mean necessarily everything he has posted has been 100% correct in an absolute sense. I know my posts have not been 100% correct.
While I am a technical guy, I am not a EE or electronics expert - as I frankly admitted earlier. So, I don't mind reading repairman's input regarding his extensive experience in repairing the panasonic DVR's which are the subject of this thread. And I don't take offense to his warnings about avoiding burning down one's house.
Anyone who worked full-time in electronics since WWII as 15 yr old youth until his retirement is also credible. Does this seem like "double talk" to you? I believe I am writing plainly. So, I don't mind reading your input as long as you simply stick to the facts as you know them. And I don't mind reading what magnum's friend had to say.
When two guys contributing to a forum, who each claim a long history in electronics, provide opposing input, then whom do the rest of us (i.e. non-electronics expert participants in this thread) assign the highest probability of being correct?? Because that is all a reasonable man can do who is not expert in the field of the debate - we must assign a probability of correctness to each viewpoint or wait for additional input data. I have my own decades long technical intuition to guide me.
Personal attacks - however mild - have been mostly avoided during the years long life of this thread. As forums go, that is a pretty rare condition. That was my only point. I believe someone flamed VideoBob way back in the middle of the thread, but that's been about it. I'm guessing you couldn't care less, but a poster launching personal attacks - however mild - loses some credibility with me.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. February 2008 @ 18:41
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LCSHG
Senior Member
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27. February 2008 @ 18:48 |
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The 10 liteon/ilo units I have The Accurian 2032 I got for my son in law The Daytek. Gateway units that friends have.
I can record with any one of these units to a +/- disk and not finalize it. They will play or record in any of the machines un-finalized and can be finalized in any
I also have a ilo 05 model unit that is a Cyberhome 1600. The format is different than the liteon units
A disk burned in this unit [ilo05] is not recognized by the liteon units, unless finalized.
A disk burned in a liteon unit, that is [un-finalized], is recognized by the 05 but as one that was not created in the Cyberhome
It will ask If I want to convert the disk to the Cyberhome format. If I say Yes, It will do so and finalize the disk and it can be played in any machine and has the ilo05/Cyberhome menu, not the liteon
If there is any info on the unit that did the original recording, It doesn?t seem to matter to the disk.
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K2SMN
Junior Member
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28. February 2008 @ 02:04 |
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Guys,
The DVD contains all the information. Nothing is "Stored" in the machine (excluding the hard drive of course). The "Un-finalized" disk is in a format similar to "Multi-session" recording. That way you can add more titles at will - until the disk is full. You can also re-name a title, or add a thumbnail, etc. When you "Finalize", additional info is written to the start-up tracks, and it is no longer a "Multi-session" disk. The format then becomes "DVD-RAM" like, and is playable on almost all DVD players. There may be a few old ones that might choke...but that's rare.
As for reading them in a computer, before they are finalized, this would require Panasonic to release their internal file structure to be able to write a utility to be able to read the unfinalized format. This is doable, and I'm almost surprised no one (at Panasonic maybe?) has written such a utility. Frankly, most of the stuff I have archived on disks is not finalized. They work in any Panasonic recorder just fine, and even in some other brands that use the same firmware. I would also suggest trying some of the "DVD-RAM" disks. They don't have to be finalized, and can be put into a PC and read just fine. It's been my method to transfer a title to my PC. You can also copy from DVD-RAM back to the Hard drive - which you can't do with a regular DVD-R. This has been useful from time to time.
As for being unable to finalize - if you can create the disk, you should be able to finalize. However, remember that when you are writing to a DVD, it takes more power than just reading. So, if the power supply is weak (bad capacitors) that might cause problems. By the way, I have 5 units here. They are on 24 hours a day. When they are idle (hard drive shuts down) they don't draw too much power. However, I have not had any capacitor problems either. I think that turning these things on & off all the time causes stress to the electronics. Like metal fatigue, the capacitors heat up, cool down, heat up, etc. Eventually, they start to fail (and leak...). A higher voltage rating would have probably helped the situation.
Final thoughts - use a "UPS" on these units - sudden power loss or power spikes can really mess up a recording. Also, keep those DVD's clean - at least until you are finished writing to them and they have been finalized. I have a habit of blowing on the DVD gently just as I put it in the machine! So far, so good.
Good Luck,
Roger.
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