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Panasonic DMR-E85H error U99
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boonkang
Newbie
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26. February 2009 @ 12:23 |
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Originally posted by boonkang:
Originally posted by RX7Fan:
Boonkang,
Having some background in electronics, I'll try to help
Quote:
Could you elaborate on " ground return issues" and waht steps one shouldtake to avoid the danger.
I'm not 100% sure of what Yankee10 was trying to say, but I think he was talking about powering the HDD with an external power supply (like a computer PS, or an external HDD PS) if you do this with the data cable connected to the DVR, they can have problems recognizing eachothers ground, and maybe even data signals. here's an analogy, .... disconnect the battery in your car, get some wires, and connect the battery from someone elses car to the connections in your car, start your car, and start driving, ... 1) you only go so far before the wires let go, or 2) the other car has to keep up with you to keep your car runing. ...(I know, not the greatest analogy, but kinda gets the point across.)
Thank you for your reply, RX7 Fan .
Does this mean that, in this case, the DVD may not work properly if external powere is used ?
Anyway to correct such problem ?
-- Boon
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yankee10
Newbie
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26. February 2009 @ 21:56 |
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Originally posted by RX7Fan:
Boonkang,
Having some background in electronics, I'll try to help
Quote:
Could you elaborate on " ground return issues" and waht steps one shouldtake to avoid the danger.
I'm not 100% sure of what Yankee10 was trying to say, but I think he was talking about powering the HDD with an external power supply (like a computer PS, or an external HDD PS) if you do this with the data cable connected to the DVR, they can have problems recognizing eachothers ground, and maybe even data signals. here's an analogy, .... disconnect the battery in your car, get some wires, and connect the battery from someone elses car to the connections in your car, start your car, and start driving, ... 1) you only go so far before the wires let go, or 2) the other car has to keep up with you to keep your car runing. ...(I know, not the greatest analogy, but kinda gets the point across.)
Yes. The ground return is the reference to which the voltages are measured. If grounds are 'isolated,' +5v in one circuit with respect to its 'ground' and +5v on another circuit with respect to its 'ground' there could conceivably be 10s or 100s of volts difference from each other with respect to one 'ground' or the other. Tying the grounds together ensures that signals are within the expected voltages. In power systems this is largely a safety thing. In digital circuits it is more of an operational thing. If a circuit is expecting a +10v signal and it gets what it thinks is a +5v or a +20v signal (because of an un-common [ground] reference) the circuit may not operate well or may be damaged.
There are many 'gotchas' with grounds--among them so-called 'ground loops.' This is caused when a circuit is referenced to a ground in more than one spot. If a current is flowing between those different spots (often due to other circuits' action) it causes a voltage differential between the spots--which means the ground tie that you thought was at the same potential is not--and you see a similar result as the last paragraph.
If an external computer power supply is driving an HDD in the DVR, and that HDD is attached to the DVR via the data cable, you at best have a very small conductor in the data cable tying the HDD power ground to the DVR ground. With a small enough conductor (larger resistance), it doesn't take much current to set up a potential difference across it (E=IR) and ...see above.
You want a good solid common reference between different parts of a circuit that communicate with each other--but you don't want to set up a ground loop. With the computer and DVR off, you can measure the resistance between the DVR ground and the computer ground. If it is zero, or close to it, then you have a common ground reference and you are probably OK. If it is open, then you need to clip a ground between the two devices. Just make sure that you don't short something else out in the process.
I hope this clarifies rather than obscures what I was talking about.
Yankee10
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RX7Fan
Member
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27. February 2009 @ 08:09 |
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Yankee10,
Beautifully stated, ... I knew I had that idea somewhere in the cobwebs, but couldn't quite get the dust off of it.
IRT the ground lots of times you can get away with it, (i.e. if the 2 power sources are from the same origional power soure, wall outlet) but it is a roll of the dice. Connecting the gounds in some manner, or just connecting the HDD to a computer to verify it's operation would almost be the best be. I've done the "Swap the HDD into the computer" before, the files aren't too hard to deal with, just time consuming to re-join, and the size is a little bit of a hassle.
RX7 Fan
Rotary Power, ... it just makes sense!
The greatest car ever built!!! IMHO
hey, ... is this thing on? ..... anybody out there?
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BudinMA
Junior Member
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27. February 2009 @ 09:07 |
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It's funny, I don't always check out the messages for this thread when it comes in my inbox however, I've been noticing them more often and wouldn't you know it. Last week I checked my 85 and it didn't record the last program I had scheduled (I'm in Boston too). So I did the reset (holding down the up/down channel keys) and changed the zip.
In a day I had some programs again and I didn't check, but I hope I have the one program I've been recording weekly.
It's good to stay in touch. I really love this machine and sorry that it's no longer being distributed. I got a renewal for the warrenty from Best Buy and I'm debating whether to renew it since they can't replace it.
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RX7Fan
Member
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27. February 2009 @ 10:10 |
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Bud,
I'd almost consider it, .. the way a lot of the warrantees(SP) work, if they can't repair it, they'll replace it, if the same model(or comperable) is not available, they upgrade you. Now this is all dependant on the cost of the Extended waranty of course. :)
RX7 Fan
Rotary Power, ... it just makes sense!
The greatest car ever built!!! IMHO
hey, ... is this thing on? ..... anybody out there?
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starrig
Junior Member
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27. February 2009 @ 14:49 |
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Originally posted by BudinMA:
It's funny, I don't always check out the messages for this thread when it comes in my inbox however, I've been noticing them more often and wouldn't you know it. Last week I checked my 85 and it didn't record the last program I had scheduled (I'm in Boston too). So I did the reset (holding down the up/down channel keys) and changed the zip.
In a day I had some programs again and I didn't check, but I hope I have the one program I've been recording weekly.
It's good to stay in touch. I really love this machine and sorry that it's no longer being distributed. I got a renewal for the warrenty from Best Buy and I'm debating whether to renew it since they can't replace it.
I still don't have my TV Guide listings back in Boston (well, Arlington), and I've spoken several times now to an engineer at WBZ, which has taken the feed over from WGBH. There was something Comcast had forgotten to turn on, and once they did that, most people seemed to get their feed back. I have not, however. Did the reset, and now I don't even have the channel listing anymore. :( Today I gave the guy at WBZ my phone number and asked him to pass it on to the person who deals with these matters at Comcast. We'll see what happens. I can still use it as a dumb VCR to record the shows I really want, but what a step backward.
Has anyone had to change cable boxes as a result of recent shifts in the TV Guide? I'm wondering if my cable box is no longer compatible.
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 10:37 |
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After 3-4 glorious years of using my DMR-E85H (I think I bought it in 2005), I now have the U99 freeze.
I didn't read every single post in this thread yet (It's quite a bit to read), but here are my problems.
I tried out a couple of the tricks posted on this thread, such as pressing stop, time slip, and open/close at the same time. That didn't work, as the tray would not open.
I tried unplugging the machine for 15 minutes, then turned it back on......Same problem. It would start up, then it would do a system check, then it would go straight to u99, with a blank screen on the television.
I rebooted several times last night, just to see if it'll come back on, but no luck.......So, I left the machine unplugged overnight.
Plug it back in today, and the machine doesn't even turn on.
Before going out to buy a new DVD recorder, plus neglecting the many files I was planning to burn onto DVD, I was thinking I could troubleshoot to see if I could salvage the machine.
I'm not an electronics whiz by any means (Have never used a souldering iron), but figured I could go by what little I've read on this board, and also on that page someone on this thread posted, for a step-by-step guide: http://vassfamily.net/projects/DMRE85H/dmre85h.html
If there are any helpful tips anyone could give, it would be highly appreciated. Aside from maybe 10-15 coasters in the last 4 years or so (Which was more DVD brand compatibility issues), this machine has been great for recording off television and transferring old videotapes to DVD. I love the harddrive feature, which seems to be a little more difficult to find in stores nowadays.
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 10:40 |
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One last thing I forgot to mention........I took the hood of the machine off this morning, then plugged the machine back on to see/hear/smell anything with the device......Near the plug section itself (Where the wire for the plug connects to the machine), I can hear a slight humming sound, and there's an almost unnoticeable smell.
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 11:09 |
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After removing the hard drive, I see that two capacitors are messed up. C1260 & C1261.
I would take a picture to show the damage, but I don't have access to a digital camera at the moment.
So, as a general frame of reference, I'll post a picture from the other poster's site:
The damaged capacitors he had were different than mine. His looks like they were C1270 & C1271.
Also, my damaged capacitors (C1260 & C1261) have a different look to them. His are oozing yellow liquid, mine are not.......The damage mine have looks like rust, like what sometimes happens with a car battery.
C1261 is in worse shape, with the entire metallic part of the top having a rust-coating, whereas C1260 has a little rust coming out of the middle of the metallic top.......None of the rust has gotten to any other part of the components, which logically seems like a good sign.
So, if I replace the C1260 & C1261 capacitors, should the machine work again? Or is there a strong possibility the machine's fried?
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 11:17 |
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Originally posted by IAMX66:
After removing the hard drive, I see that two capacitors are messed up. C1260 & C1261.
I would take a picture to show the damage, but I don't have access to a digital camera at the moment.
So, as a general frame of reference, I'll post a picture from the other poster's site:
The damaged capacitors he had were different than mine. His looks like they were C1270 & C1271.
Mine (C1260 & C1261), if you want to look at it a from frame of reference to the picture, would be the two large capacitors below the small capacitor with the "100" insignia......
Also, my damaged capacitors (C1260 & C1261) have a different look to them. His are oozing yellow liquid, mine are not.......The damage mine have looks like rust, like what sometimes happens with a car battery.
C1261 is in worse shape, with the entire metallic part of the top having a rust-coating, whereas C1260 has a little rust coming out of the middle of the metallic top.......None of the rust has gone to the plastic coating of the capacitors, nor have they gotten to any other part of the components, which logically seems like a good sign.
So, if I replace the C1260 & C1261 capacitors, should the machine work again? Or is there a strong possibility the machine's fried?
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Kassel
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 11:18 |
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Good MX. I have not yet replaced a single capacitor on my system. But it's nice to know you guys are out there if we need you to guide the way. PS .. regarding REPLACEMENT of the whole e-85, I don't think that is possible at all, as I don't see anyone making something that measures up to this unit nowadays. It is like they know they gave away the farm when they made this.
PS ... for those who are thinking of bypassing the pana power supply as a diagnostic step, I did it and it helped. Although it did not reinitiate all of the pana tools, I think it caused some internal chip to recognize the original power supply when I restored all of the connections a few minutes later.
Regarding TV guide, everything has been back up and running here in the desert for about two months now.
kingkassel@aol.com
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Kassel
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 11:24 |
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MX .. I would not replace those capacitors until I had hijacked a power supply from another computer to first bring it all back together. My worry is that you are basically going to surgery before you took the easier pill, heheh. But I am no elec. engineer, and I don't know for sure, but I would think surface rust has not killed the caps. Still, if you smelled something ... you decide. At the minimum, I would stop taking the e-85 into the shower so you get less rust?
The beauty of the borrowed power supply is it is all reversible, and takes just a few minutes, at no cost. I simply pulled a power plug off a cd rom in my old computer and stretched it over to the hard drive in the e-85. Ten min. later I went back to the original connections. I think the next morning it all came back. It is posted in here somewhere.
kingkassel@aol.com
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 11:37 |
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I might take the machine to Radio Shack today, just to see what their opinion is on the rust-oozed capacitors. Problem is, they're not experts on the machine itself, but I'd assume they're more knowledgeable than me about electronics in general, so I'll see what they say. Hopefully they won't be the type who give "tips" simply to get sales.
I assume the "shower" comment was a joke, but I will say I live in a non-humid area and don't have the DVD recorder near anything which would expose it to humidity, so it's nothing to do with that.......The car battery comparison was a little misleading, as car batteries end up having what I'd call rust-powder. What's on the capacitors isn't powder, it looks almost like solidified liquid.
It's similar to what I've seen with old batteries that are no longer of use, a rust-like substance which pretty much means you need to replace it.
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LCoop
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 12:03 |
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I have two of the e85 machines - both still working though had to replace the capacitors on one of them last year - I would only add that I found similarly shaped "vertical" capacitors at radio shack and not the big "horizontal" repair ones shown the pics that IAMX66 is showing - this is what I used last year from radio shack:
1000µF 35V 20% Radial-lead Electrolytic Capacitor
Model: 272-1032
Catalog #: 272-1032
$1.59
went to a little local TV repair shop and had them replaced -
also I believe my bad capacitors where the same ones shown in the pics - sounds like IAMX66 may have different bad ones - anyway good luck.
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 12:33 |
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How much did the trip to the TV repair shop cost?
Just wondering, because if it doesn't cost much, it might be better to go to one rather than try it myself and possibly damage the machine further. After all, I haven't used a souldering iron before.
I could try it out and learn from it, but it could be a costly learning lesson in the process.
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 12:45 |
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Also, how long did it take to get it repaired?
I just took a look at the capacitors. The specs on them are the same, except the problem ones in the picture (C1270 & C1271, which you also had a problem with) are 16v, while mine (C1260 & C1261) are 10v.
They also look practically the same, except mine are slightly shorter.
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LCoop
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 12:51 |
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Quote:
How much did the trip to the TV repair shop cost?
Just wondering, because if it doesn't cost much, it might be better to go to one rather than try it myself and possibly damage the machine further. After all, I haven't used a souldering iron before.
I could try it out and learn from it, but it could be a costly learning lesson in the process.
I think he charged me $10 - there are several little electronics/TV repair shops here in SW Houston TX - took him about 5 minutes - call a few up and ask about $$how much$$ to replace a couple of capacitors on a circuit board, if you are just taking in the board itself and the new capacitors.
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 13:09 |
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Awesome, I'll try a couple places out and see. One place quoted me $20, so far.
What would suck is if they repair it, but it turns out something else was the problem and the two damaged capacitors are a result of the problem.
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LCoop
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 13:28 |
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Quote:
What would suck is if they repair it, but it turns out something else was the problem and the two damaged capacitors are a result of the problem.
could be - but if the capacitors are showing the 'classic' signs of failure (brown/orange/rust crud leaking out) and you replace them, can only say that for me and the vast majority of people here (if not all), that fixed it.
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Kassel
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 13:41 |
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You guys are on the right track. Nobody can be good at everything, but for a few bucks you can get a good soldering guy to swap those capacitors out. I would get the guy to do it. EVen if you later learn some other issue is causing trouble, at least you have new capacitors.
And yep, the rusty capacitors from the shower water hitting the unit was my idea of a joke. See? I'm not a tv geek, heheh.
kingkassel@aol.com
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 15:49 |
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Had it done for $20.
I have it at home and it powered back up, but it's stuck with this on the display of the machine itself: ch Test*L1
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 16:52 |
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OK, I feel kind of stupid about the Test*L1 thing......When re-opening the machine, I realized I forgot to plug in those 4 wires (red/black/black, and I think the last one's yellow) to the hard drive.
So, I don't get the Test*L1 display anymore.......Now it's just back to U99, aaaaaahhhhhhhh!
I'm going to try the CD drive thing mentioned earlier. I'll just detach the CD-rom on my computer, attach it to the machine, then remove the connection to the CD-rom, and attach it to the original hard drive, and see how that works.
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LCoop
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 17:22 |
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sorry - all out myself - but yes you have to be sure that all is hooked up again correctly - after guess its a different problem.
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IAMX66
Newbie
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28. February 2009 @ 17:42 |
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Yeah, kind of sucks. It's looking like I might need to get a new machine. Don't know if I want to try replacing the motherboard.
Took out my cd-rom drive, but it turns out it doesn't take the same connection-type. I might check out another computer we have at the house. That'll probably be my last try.
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LCoop
Junior Member
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28. February 2009 @ 18:49 |
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as a next step pretty soon I'll probably get a centrino 2 (dual core) laptop and a digital TV tuner usb thumb device with recording software and start experimenting with that - of course cheaper would be a regular desktop computer.
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