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Which Transcoding Tools Produce The Best Picture Quality.
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Member
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27. June 2004 @ 09:19 |
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Soph, guess you told SYKES. At least he could have been a little more diplomatic with his posting.
HP 7975 Pentium 4W/2.0 XP Home
1 GB RAM
Maxtor 80 GB and WD 80 GB (used for movies only)
Pioneer 116 DVD ROM,and BenQ 1640 Combo
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. June 2004 @ 10:00 |
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If you guys think I'm going to let this one pass, you probably think shrink is the best back-up tool out there (I don't care what day it is). Sykes, you just want to incite, that's the only possible reason for your post. You care nothing about actual video quality and the truth. If you just came here to spout off confrontational drivel, blah blah blah, go somewhere else, We don't need ya. We've had a couple of others like you, they didn't last either. As sophocles said, you didn't bother to read the posts. ALL our tests were done with 3-4 hour movies. I did one of 254 minutes, put that in your shrink and smoke it. Comparisons have been made with split screens and increased magnification combined with clear and consise information sharing, not the "I said it so it must be true" theory that you seem to subscribe to. A lot of us stayed up all nite on more than one occasion to report back to the rest with our findings. The consensus has been rebuilder/cce, Intervideo dvdcopy2, and Pinnacle Instantcopy8. Have you tested and compared these programs, because I can assure you, we all have tried and tested shrink. Don't get me wrong, I, like many others, got my start on shrink and decrypter. As freeware they are the top of the heap, but don't even try to tell me shrink beats out any of the aforementioned software, and especially don't tell me anything til you have used them in a purely unbiased comparison as we have. You said"hope I've been helpful", what a crock, you came here to start crap and you know it. Everything in your manner doesn't just suggest, it practically screams it. You call yourself a pro, it's been my experience people who toot their own horn do so because no one else will.
_
 GO VOLS !This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2004 @ 10:22
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64026402
Senior Member
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27. June 2004 @ 10:24 |
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He probably had heat dams and laser flaring messing up the testing.
Donald
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64026402
Senior Member
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27. June 2004 @ 10:24 |
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Arrgh.
Donald
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2004 @ 10:25
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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27. June 2004 @ 10:50 |
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S-Y-K-E-S did you ever try stirring a hornets nest with a stick? I suspect that it's analogous to what you've stirred here.
Some quick advice, if you want to get along with the members of this forum. Don't jump into something at the middle or the end and start calling it down with no clue as to what is going on.
I've tryed over at least 15 other programs & found that only 3 were worth mentioning
I for one would like you to provide a list of the other twelve progarms that you felt weren't worth mentioning, we may not agree.
some of you are just followers
When you've finished compiling a list of those other programs, perhaps you could also provide the names of the followers.
I know I'm new to the forum
You would have done well to have observed that fact before you began insulting its members.
TAKE IT FROM A PRO
You are no doubt a "legend in your own mind."
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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S-Y-K-E-S
Suspended permanently
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27. June 2004 @ 17:08 |
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I've tryed every program from dvdxcopy to that fake clone dvd at clonedvd.net & even instant copy & intervideos dvd 2, also nero recode 2 (it couldent even handle armageddon) i've even tryed german ones you shit talkers nerver even heard abou the pic is usually ok with intervideo dvd2 it makes video have lil lines in in at times, so i say to all a goodnight & get off the next mans nutts !! The only 1 I havent tryed is DVDREBUIDER, But i've made enough KDVD'S WITH CCE 2.67 to tell you all it aint worth waiting 4 hours for a movies & then adding audio after, go here www.kvcd.org
PS ... I was sharing my experiences & I dunno why some feel like your gettin raped in the arse or somethin, jus tell daddy to leave you alone at night or at least tellmom that daddy rapes you, don't take it out on me,
internet tough guys LOL what a joke
No wonder all your registered users are leaving to KVCD.ORG
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2004 @ 17:20
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64026402
Senior Member
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27. June 2004 @ 17:20 |
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Oh gee whiz don't go. You were starting to make so much sense.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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27. June 2004 @ 17:26 |
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S-Y-K-E-S
"I've tryed every program from dvdxcopy to that fake clone dvd at clonedvd.net & even instant copy & intervideos dvd 2,also nero recode 2 (it couldent even handle armageddon)"
I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but DVD Shrink and Nero Recode have the same author. And it couldn't handle armageddon? Recode is superior to DVD Shrink, thanks to its superior editing choices, but that's all.
Now just give me the list of the 12 unknown programs that you've tired and the one of all the followers
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2004 @ 17:27
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. June 2004 @ 18:16 |
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sykes, it's obvious that my theory was correct. You have nothing to offer, except a hard time. You haven't used any of these programs, if you had, as sophocles said earlier, you would know recode(which IS superior)does have the same bunch as shrink and if recode wouldn't handle it neither would your precious shrink. Of the others you mentioned, you couldn't even cite any specifics or proof. Hell, my little 6-yr. old niece can say she did it. I know this to be a fact because if you had used them you would agree with the findings. One other matter, you better be glad it's internet cos when you start talkin' about someone's Mom and Dad you'd get your ass kicked but good where I live, which btw, you wouldn't last a day. My gut feeling tells me KVCD.ORG probably got tired of your antics and so you're out looking for a new home, else why would you be here if it's so beneath your (lol) standards. PS- anytime you want to call this tough guy out you just let me know, I'll be more than happy to oblige.
GO VOLS !
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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27. June 2004 @ 18:23 |
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S-Y-K-E-S,
I can appreciate that you were trying to be helpful, and there's always room for that. However, the tone of your post:
Quote:
some of you are right & some of you are just followers, DO SOME REAL TESTS !!
Quote:
TAKE IT FROM A PRO
is very inflammatory and, regardless of your intent, insulting. I'd also like to point out that while I agree about needing to include long movies to get a complete picture of each program's strong and weak points, it's no more complete than just testing with high bitrate (but shorter) movies. In fact I'd add a third category of animation to that list.
I also don't think you've given CCE a proper test if all you've worked with is the KVCD matrix. That matrix is almost identical, although from my own personal test (and to my eyes of course) slightly inferior, to CCE's Ultra Low bitrate matrix. If you don't have a movie that requires an incredibly low bitrate there's no reason to use a matrix like that. I certainly understand why you would want to avoid the long encode times you mention, although mine don't take that long. Still, if your hardware isn't up to faster encodes I'm certainly not going to suggest that anyone else should tell you what kind of speed is acceptable or that anyone's opinion but your own is suitable for you to pick your own backup solution.
There is one thing that I will take major exception to however. You say your tests are "Real Tests", but you haven't explained your exact methods. What you've described seems like an important piece of the kind of tests I was working on, but ran out of time for due to other projects. I'll stick by a comment I made in the past that I've never seen a truly scientific comparison (my definition of a Real Test)between programs, because the standard method used has been to encode single movie (or single type of movie) with several programs and visually compare the results. Unfortunately, this will tend to play to the weaknesses of some programs and the strengths of others. Without testing different movies with different challenges (high bitrate, long, animation, & different combinations of the 3) it's impossible to make an accurate blanket statement about any method. In order to avoid human error, I'd also say it's important to use a utility like SSIM for AviSynth, which compares the actual luma and chroma data and weights it according to the results of a study by the Video Quality Experts Group, so you can get an objective POV to include as well. Finally, any remotely scientific study requires a large enough group of testers to hopefully eliminate error and some kind of blind testing process to ensure before-hand knowledge of the video's source doesn't affect the outcome.
You may think this means I take issue with every test I've ever seen, and you'd be right. Given that your tests meet as many of these qualifications as most others I've seen, I don't give yours any less weight, however I don't give them any more either, and that's not much. If dual layer burning wasn't just around the corner, I'd be hopeful that someday we might be able to arrange such a scientific comparison, but since most people will be focusing on getting big enough discs to avoid encoding altogether, I see that as very unlikely.
Everyone Else,
Chill Out! I can understand being insulted by what you saw as an attack on your own abilities, and I sympathize with defending yourselves, but that's not an excuse for acting like a pack of wild dogs! If you don't agree with (or like) S-Y-K-E-S, that's fine, but it's not an excuse for making post after post full of personal attacks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. June 2004 @ 18:38 |
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Vurbal, I will apologize to you and AD for my violent reaction to sykes. You are correct in that it's not what this forum is intended. However I cannot apologize to anyone who flings parental insults at me with reckless abandon. I suspect he got the reaction he wanted and for that , I regret my choice. You will not see any more retorts from me because I will not respond to any more of MR. sykes comments.
GO VOLS !
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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27. June 2004 @ 19:24 |
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Fair enough ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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27. June 2004 @ 19:28 |
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Vurbal
I'm sorry too. Darn Vurbal, if I'd known you were going to do all this so eloquently and so clearly stated, i'd sat quietly and let you do your thing. We've probably become so used to discordance because of this thread that it annoys us when we're dragged back into it again.
S-Y-K-E-S
Many of us didn't agree with each other when we began this project, and we don't always agree with each other now, but we respect each other. I think most of us even like each other. When you so carelesly insult something you didn't contribute too that we put so much time and effort into, bad move. If you want to start over, I suggests that you drop this thread and start from scratch.
_
Vurbal "Pack of wild dogs?"
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2004 @ 19:30
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Praetor
Moderator
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27. June 2004 @ 19:39 |
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WHOA people .... chillax .... everyone's got their opinions regarding "best" and we should all just whatever works for us.... now y'all play nice, hear?
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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27. June 2004 @ 19:51 |
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Quote:
Vurbal "Pack of wild dogs?"
Okay that might have been an overstatement ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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27. June 2004 @ 20:13 |
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A lot to ignore.
Quote S-Y-K-E-S
"I dunno why some feel like your gettin raped in the arse or somethin, jus tell daddy to leave you alone at night or at least tell mom that daddy rapes you, don't take it out on me"
THAT I CAN'T FORGIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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siber
Member
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27. June 2004 @ 22:15 |
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Man, I was in the car for 6 hours and I missed this whole thing!? You guys got seriously provoked. I don't expect S-etc to show up here again. I'm sure you'll all miss him. Seemed like such a regular guy.
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wowdancer
Newbie
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28. June 2004 @ 01:45 |
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My process:
1) DVDShrink to remove protection & unwanted langauges
2) DVDRemake to remove unwanted material (from menus and other unwanted things like trailers)
3) InstantCopy to transcode, using hidden registry editor to configure maximum quality
BTU the hardest part is to learn DVDremake but it's worth the time as you can manipulate those 500 meg menu's to become 50 meg...
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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28. June 2004 @ 02:53 |
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Like siber, I was absent when the conflagration occurred. Being one of the potty mouthed pack followers, I would have probably said something for which I wouldn't be sorry. And he is very, very lucky he is in cyber land, for he knows not with whom he deals.
People are allowed to have different beliefs and choices. Just don't go around trying to provoke fights. The post of giving so called PRO endorsements for programs that repeatedly give only moderate to failing results is inciting confrontation on the part of a Newbie.
A true pro wouldn't have acted in this manner. Defending a point of view is one thing; throwing a load of crap and then making sick insults is another. A true analysis would have given a listing of software used and at least a reason for the choices. The programs culled by sykes are generally reputed to be superior by most to his choices. No serious testing or comparisons were made.
The sick sexually explicit and derogatory attack by sykes is one of the worst personal attacks on AD members I have encountered. I know we can get hot under the collar sometimes, but this attack went a bit too far.
Members might fall into these mine fields at times. Remember though, we are sometimes grossly insulted by people taking pot shots. Coming on the scene with the call for cool heads is sometimes a good idea. When doing so, it is a good idea not to add further insult. Some things are asking for a lot of forgetting, and an attack such as S-Y-K-E-S's is one of the unforgettable and unforgivable.
Wherever this guy was, he should have stayed, if possible. This is supposedly a forum of the knowledgable, where one can offer a point of view. The point of view can and will be questioned. Unfounded statements are the first to be questioned. One should be able to defend their assertions, not fall into sick retribution when called. Anyone seeing this should realize S-Y-K-E-S has made himself persona-non-grata.
vurbal, as a senior member, I would have thought you would have used a bit more tact.
Quote:
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Vurbal "Pack of wild dogs?"
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Okay that might have been an overstatement ;)
On the possibility of appearing a pack member, it was over the top and an untimely statement. Might has no play here, it was an untimely, inappropriate, overstatement. Hopefully, your statement was just spur of the moment with no malicious intent (as it spurred further comment). Maybe this guy is gone and we all can cool it. I have even seen our moderators respond with far less provocation to attacks by the likes of S-Y-K-E-S. May I add, sometimes justifiably so. Members do owe each other a modicum of respect as we interact on a daily basis.
I can see where Bigorange and Sophocles are coming from. I hate to see anyone fall into one of these pits. All I can say is, better luck next time. After all, we are human and the first instinct when being attacked is defense.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. June 2004 @ 03:57
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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28. June 2004 @ 03:05 |
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Wowdancer,
Granted, there are a number of different ways of doing things with varying shades of success. Glad you have a process that works for you and your equipment.
Shrink is a decent freebie, but there are better programs for video editing. Some of the tools to work with are still free. Unfortunately, some of the better software programs have to be purchased. You should check out the rebuilder thread. (That is a personal opinion based on use of DVD recording software and a search for a better mousetrap.)
Somebody is always trying to come up with something better or different. Otherwise we would be discussing crayons and paper instead of DVD software and recording media._
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. June 2004 @ 03:36
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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28. June 2004 @ 05:06 |
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Quote:
vurbal, as a senior member, I would have thought you would have used a bit more tact.
This is the last comment I'm going to make on the matter. I used what tact I felt appropriate and I'd do the same again. Everyone involved in that exchange up to that point was out of line. S-Y-K-E-S insulted several people here (not me - I could care less what people think of my methods) and then was repeatedly ridiculed by others (thus my pack of wild dogs statement) before he even had a chance to post any kind of explanation, or maybe even an apology for the way he put things. His original post didn't indicate to me that he was trolling for reactions, just that he didn't have that much tact, but his lack of tact didn't warrant the reaction, at least not to the degree it happened. Likewise, his reaction escalated things to a level they shouldn't have reached, but since he felt he was being attacked by everyone here I can understand where that came from. He made comments that shouldn't (and won't) be tolerated here, and he's ultimately just as guilty as anyone - maybe more, but he didn't start the personal attacks. I have no expectations from people I haven't had contact with before, but I do have an expectation that people who post regularly here know better. My second statement was intended to help diffuse the situation, and advisable or not, the situation is diffused. Anyone who did something wrong is aware of what they did and I'm not going to point fingers and make the sort of personal attacks that caused this incident, so I'll let it drop now.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. June 2004 @ 05:17
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. June 2004 @ 05:13 |
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wowdancer, you've got a pretty good method there I must say. I, like brobear, would recommend getting away from shrink. You can use decrypter to rip and remake will remove those pesky languages for you also. Remake is really not that tuff once you get used to it. I think it is the best re-authoring prog out there. I also am a big fan of Instantcopy 8. I go back and forth between it and dvdcopy 2, and then there is rebuilder/cce for the really BIG ones. But all in all a pretty good choice.
GO VOLS !
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. June 2004 @ 05:47 |
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Hey vurbal, again I am sorry for my reaction, but comments like "some of you are right & some of you are just followers, DO SOME REAL TESTS !!
TRY 3 HOUR MOVIES FOR COMPARASION !!" and then there's "take it from a real pro" are comments made to get a reaction. These were made in his 1st post. If he had read the threads he would have known we used 3+ hour movies for tests, and calling us followers and take it from a real pro are incendiary and confrontational statements, meant to provoke. However you remained cool headed and I've been called a lot worse than a pack of wild dogs LOL and I'm over it and I hope everyone else is too. I'm glad you're here vurbal, your help in rebuilder/cce has been invaluable and I hope to do more with you guys in the future. Maybe you ought to look at being a moderator as a second job, huh?
GO VOLS !
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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28. June 2004 @ 06:35 |
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I admit that I used some strong words but at no point did I seriously cross the line. This is the most inflammatory statement that I made in my first response.
TAKE IT FROM A PRO
You want us take your word that you are a serious verteran, but everything that you wrote makes you sound like what you are, a Newbie.
This was my second reply.
Ok siber I get your point, S-Y-K-E-S have a pleasant Sunday.
My third reply:
S-Y-K-E-S did you ever try stirring a hornets nest with a stick? I suspect that it's analogous to what you've stirred here.
Some quick advice, if you want to get along with the members of this forum. Don't jump into something at the middle or the end and start calling it down with no clue as to what is going on.
I've tryed over at least 15 other programs & found that only 3 were worth mentioning
I for one would like you to provide a list of the other twelve progarms that you felt weren't worth mentioning, we may not agree.
This next was a direct insult that implied that some of us were mindless minions.
some of you are just followers
When you've finished compiling a list of those other programs, perhaps you could also provide the names of the followers.
I know I'm new to the forum
You would have done well to have observed that fact before you began insulting its members.
TAKE IT FROM A PRO
You are no doubt a "legend in your own mind."
my 4th reply
-Y-K-E-S
"I've tryed every program from dvdxcopy to that fake clone dvd at clonedvd.net & even instant copy & intervideos dvd 2,also nero recode 2 (it couldent even handle armageddon)"
I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but DVD Shrink and Nero Recode have the same author. And it couldn't handle armageddon? Recode is superior to DVD Shrink, thanks to its superior editing choices, but that's all.
Now just give me the list of the 12 unknown programs that you've tired and the one of all the followers
That's as tough as I got period, even after sykes posted this.
"I dunno why some feel like your gettin raped in the arse or somethin, jus tell daddy to leave you alone at night or at least tell mom that daddy rapes you, don't take it out on me"
I was never upset with his choices, I didn't agree with them but that's another story. What brought me into the fray was his putting down people he didn't know and his assuming that we were inexpereinced and that he was the self proclaimed pro.
_
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. June 2004 @ 10:59
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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28. June 2004 @ 13:08 |
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I am forced to agree with sophocles. Not being involved in the confrontation, I can see the progression. Sophocles saw a Newbie taking a potshot at hours of actual work and input by members trying to be objective. Yes, we know we carry our own biases. The statements were questioned and a sick minded assault ensued by S-Y-K-E-S. If one claims to be a PRO, they should be able to prove it in a professional manner.
Vurbal's input was timely calling for a cool down as was Praetor. Not meaning to kiss up, but the short cool down and play nice was most appropriate (boy did I hate to say that in public, hate all appearances of being a follower). Anyway, I always appreciate cool headed responses. We should learn from the situation and move on. Hashing it out will only keep ill feelings alive.
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