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Neph's POLITE Gun Debate
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19. June 2007 @ 16:29 |
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What is a psychopath?
A psychopath has no concern for the feelings of others and a complete disregard for any sense of social obligation. They seem egocentric and lack insight of any sense of responsibility or consequence. Their emotions are thought to be superficial and shallow, if they exist at all. They are considered callous, manipulative, and incapable of forming lasting relationships, let alone showing any kind of meaningful love. They typically never perform any action unless they determine it can be beneficial for themselves.
Since psychopaths cause harm through their actions, it is assumed that they are not emotionally attached to the people they harm; however, according to the PCL-R Checklist, psychopaths are also careless in the way they treat themselves. They frequently fail to alter their behavior in a way that would prevent them from enduring future discomfort. Dr. Joseph Newman contends that the behavior displayed by psychopaths is the result of "an inability to process contextual cues." [23]
It is thought that any emotions which the primary psychopath exhibits are the fruits of watching and mimicking other people's emotions. They show poor impulse control and a low tolerance for frustration and aggression. They have no empathy, remorse, anxiety or guilt in relation to their behavior. In short, they truly are devoid of conscience. However, they understand that society expects them to behave in a conscientious manner, and therefore they mimic this behavior when it suits their needs.
Most studies of psychopaths have taken place among prison populations. This remains a limitation on its applicability to a general population but that has not prevented fiction writers from popularizing psychopaths in the movies.
link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sociopath
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PacMan777
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19. June 2007 @ 18:08 |
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My point of view is that sociopaths are born while psychopaths are formed. No amount of treatment will make a difference with a true sociopath. Depending on the degree of psychosis, not all people exhibiting psychopathic behavior are untreatable.
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19. June 2007 @ 23:42 |
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Quote:
[quote]Sociopaths are asses if they can behave then they should be able to get guns.
Zippy, you're referring to the most dangerous of the human animals. If you make a sociopath angry, don't ever allow yourself alone with it or in a situation where they can get you. Even though you see cutting one off in traffic as a daily occurence, were you caught alone and appeared powerless or they could gain an advantage, they wouldn't care to kill you for the offense. The only care they have for social mores is how to keep from being caught when breaking them. I'll disagree with Gerry. Many of them know what is wrong on an intellectual level. They don't care about moral behavior and the idea of right and wrong as set forth by society. Sociopaths should be at the top of the list of those not allowed a firearm.
Gerry
Quote:
@Pac...I disagree with you on a number of points:
You're going to have to work harder showing them. I don't remember saying much about firearms and suicide. In some cultures a person goes quietly while in others they try to take out everyone they can as a statement. A person bent on killing will often get it done. No disagreement on sociopaths either. They're the most dangerous animal, as I mentioned. I don't see where the disagreements are unless you point them out. So far you haven't voiced one except when you implied gun ownership was wrong because inter-city gangstas were doing a lot of shooting. It's more difficult to do a drive by with a knife, but back in the day, they still got the job done.
Until the government assigns 3 cops to every home for 24 hour protection (overlapping 12 hour shifts), I think owning a gun for protection is justifiable. As often pointed out, if a person can't protect themselves, all the police do is inspect a crime scene.[/quote]
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there are a lot of people under the right circumstance would would hurt another with a gun,Sociopaths who follow the law should get a pass because they are not 80%+ likely to gun down a crowd, evil is ok as long as it abids by the law, insanity however is not.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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19. June 2007 @ 23:51 |
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sociopaths are lesser psychopath from my understanding they care about them selfs at the least thus they are not goign to do anythign to foolish ,because they tend to be violent from the get go they tend to rack up a criminal record thus they are already "limited".
Psychopathy is a complete disregard for everything and they should be automatically baned.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychopathy#Sociopathy
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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PacMan777
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20. June 2007 @ 15:18 |
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Zippy
I think we're just bouncing around a difference of definition. The dictionary gives the same definition for sociopath and psychopath. Note Wikipedia discusses psychopathic disorders under Sociopathy.
Quote:
1. somebody affected with a personality disorder marked by aggressive, violent, antisocial thought and behavior and a lack of remorse or empathy ( technical )
There happens to be a difference of opinion in some circles. A true sociopath is born without the mental function to be a properly functioning member of society. They are born preditors. These are the kids who torture pets and don't mind doing the same to family, associates or strangers. Only as long as others are useful are they safe.
A psychopath is thought of as being a product of events and developing a treatable psychological illness. For a psychopath there are those who think there is hope. Sociopathic behavior is what a full blown psychopath mimics. Sociopaths need to be housed away from the general public and psychopaths held and treated until they are capable of functioning in society.
If you want to think of sociopaths and pychopaths as being the same or different, that's okay. Either problem should be reason to deny ownership of a deadly weapon or to allow access to them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. June 2007 @ 15:26
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20. June 2007 @ 15:24 |
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OK ENOUGH OF THIS DRIVEL. :P
Simply put, "If you're a NUT JOB you don't need a dang gun or weapon for that matter." ;) And the way I see it, if you are labeled as such you are screwed for the rest of your life. UNFORTUNATELY that is what will happen and you guys know it.
Well that should stir up the pot a little. LOL.
....gm
Where's gerry1, he and I could have some fun here. :P
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PacMan777
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20. June 2007 @ 15:48 |
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Quote:
OK ENOUGH OF THIS DRIVEL. :P
... Well that should stir up the pot a little. LOL.
Ireland, Gerry, Zippy and I were discussing a serious situation. I regret you take it lightly. Being a "Nut Job" is the stigma that current laws are trying to protect people with mental problems from. However, I do agree that real "Nut Jobs" shouldn't have firearms. Therein lies the problem. How far does the law go in protecting society from "Nut Jobs" while trying to protect the "Nut Jobs" from society? As far as psychological problems, the law should go farther in screening those wanting to own a deadly weapon. If a person has a severe psychological problem, it should be reported. If a person doesn't want a psych problem brought up, they shouldn't try to buy a firearm.
I don't want more gun laws at present. I'd like to see what we have enforced first to see how that works. I could live with the addition of increased screening for those with psychological problems though.
Gun discussions usually don't change many opinions. Some are adamant that any laws are too many while others will only accept a total ban. Then you have those who move somewhere between. I've stated my opinion in the most civil manner I could. I'll leave the discussion to Greensman and the rest of you who wish to continue.
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20. June 2007 @ 16:40 |
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@PacMan,
I in no way shape or form intended you take my comments the wrong way and therefore see you leave the discussion. I just thought that a little HUMOR brought into a situation that was coming to a possible head needed a somewhat mellower tone for conversations sake. :)
I think that the parties involved in this have been more than amiable to a degree but I also think all of you were "arguing" a mute point. In other words the "definition" of a certain term shouldn't be beaten like a smelly dead horse. :P
I will go out on my little limb here, well a LARGE one to hold me actually, and say that more gun laws are almost ludicrous at this point. Like someone said, maybe PacMan, let's enforce the ones that we have and see what happens. Honestly the only guns that I own are SoftAir Pistols by whoever makes them and that's all I want at this point. My kiddies are more important to me than a serious mistake that may be beyond anyone's control. I've seen it first hand and have friends that have lost children in "accidents" beyond their parents control.
Maybe "nut job" was a little insensitive but hey you are what you are, RIGHT? I'm a large man and admit it freely, 300 plus lbs. :P I'm sure the rest of you have faults too but who really needs a shoulder to cry on here? NOT me, my wife and kiddies love me the way I am and that's good with me. :)
PacMan please don't leave the discussion or find this insulting. I think we all are on the same side here. All we want is less unnecessary death caused by the "criminals" that use guns as a homicidal weapon. There will always be the "accidental" death from a car, a boat, football game, rock climbing, a gun, or whatever you can find as a way someone dies unintentionally.
OK my little post of seriousness is over and I go back into blissful humor. :)
....gm
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gerry1
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20. June 2007 @ 18:22 |
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@greensman...I am both a sociopath and a psychopath depending on which of my multiple personalities chooses to make a fashionable emergence. I also have a third personality who is actually Sigmund Freud reincarnated. He always manages to smooth things out between my multiple personalities until they're all chummy again. Since I like folk music and camping, Sigmund seems to think that I'm really a lesbian trapped in a man's body which explains why I have a short, cropped and masculine hair cut instead of french curls like Shirley Temple :)
@Pac ... I enjoyed our discussions but I did rather drag the thread in a totally different direction and that pragmatic lesbian trapped in a man's body gets really irritated at the lack of continuity.
j/k and being really silly.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. June 2007 @ 18:23
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20. June 2007 @ 22:08 |
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one of them (sociopath/psychopath, i might have confused them so witch ever is the "lesser") is like depression just because you suffer from it dose not mean its a automatic fail,for sociopath/psychopath the key is to stay out of jail/trouble without a criminal recored or mental record of "abusing" others theres no need to block them just because they got hit with a label, this is my connsern anyway we should focus on thos that have trouble with reality, sever depression(that can blur reailty),suicidal (5 years limitation,life can suck and get then get better),stalking obsessive/abusive with people, if you go by the basics you wont have to take out large swipes of the populace just because they are "labeled" ....uhg smack me if I have gone PC....give me a quick death eh? :P
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. June 2007 @ 22:10
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20. June 2007 @ 22:12 |
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Originally posted by gerry1:
@greensman...I am both a sociopath and a psychopath depending on which of my multiple personalities chooses to make a fashionable emergence. I also have a third personality who is actually Sigmund Freud reincarnated. He always manages to smooth things out between my multiple personalities until they're all chummy again. Since I like folk music and camping, Sigmund seems to think that I'm really a lesbian trapped in a man's body which explains why I have a short, cropped and masculine hair cut instead of french curls like Shirley Temple :)
@Pac ... I enjoyed our discussions but I did rather drag the thread in a totally different direction and that pragmatic lesbian trapped in a man's body gets really irritated at the lack of continuity.
j/k and being really silly.
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M.P.D is auto fail :P
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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PacMan777
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21. June 2007 @ 12:33 |
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Quote:
M.P.D is auto fail :P
Don't tell our other selves. LOL
Greensman is right. I think we all agree the idea is to keep weapons out of the hands of those who are dangerous. For the layman, psychopath and sociopath should mean the same as far as firearm screening is concerned, symptoms and behavior are the same. If a person's condition is serious enough to be diagnosed by a professional, it is serious enough to prevent them from owning a deadly weapon. There's no need to split hairs over how the problem came about or whether one is more dangerous than the other.
As far as accidents, they happen. However children getting hurt with firearms is most often carelessness, especially the kind where little Bobby finds daddy's gun under the pillow and shoots little Billy while playing cowboys and indians. Leaving weapons unsecured is asking for an "accident". I have a large gun safe where my collectibles are kept. My home defense pistol is kept in a locked gun box when any of the children are around. Guns are not accessible to the children. A simple gun lock will keep children from firing a gun. Most gun companies supply a lock nowadays and some have them built in. So, safety isn't a matter of cost. The person who leaves a firearm ready to shoot in reach of a child should be held responsible for whatever happens.
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21. June 2007 @ 15:19 |
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Originally posted by PacMan:
Greensman is right.
Sir, you give me to much credit. :)
Originally posted by PacMan:
As far as accidents, they happen. However children getting hurt with firearms is most often carelessness, especially the kind where little Bobby finds daddy's gun under the pillow and shoots little Billy while playing cowboys and indians. Leaving weapons unsecured is asking for an "accident". I have a large gun safe where my collectibles are kept. My home defense pistol is kept in a locked gun box when any of the children are around. Guns are not accessible to the children. A simple gun lock will keep children from firing a gun. Most gun companies supply a lock nowadays and some have them built in. So, safety isn't a matter of cost. The person who leaves a firearm ready to shoot in reach of a child should be held responsible for whatever happens.
I couldn't agree more with that statement, the exact reason that I chose to sell my few weapons when we had children. Also I didn't want my wife learning how to use one. SHE might use it on me!!! :P
Good to see everyone adding something of REAL substance, well all except maybe that gerry1 guy. hehehe. j/k Gerry, you know how I love to tease you French people. hahaha. :P btw way I hope that your back is doing better. I understand your pain. Football and EXTRA weight has/is taking it's toll on mine as well. ;)
....gm
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21. June 2007 @ 15:31 |
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the voices are dckign with my thinking...just to be clear sociopath/psychopath is a lot easier to diagnose and is less "fickle" as depssrestion diagnosis?
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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gerry1
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21. July 2007 @ 18:55 |
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I received a beautifully wrapped present from Ireland this morning and it contained the most practical and useful present I've ever received:
New Nokia Philadelphia Model Multi-function Cell Phone
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21. July 2007 @ 19:02 |
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Originally posted by gerry1:
I received a beautifully wrapped present from Ireland this morning and it contained the most practical and useful present I've ever received:
It's not fair that ireland would send you something so practical and useful. LOL. Where's mine??? Tell the old man "hi" for me. Miss his posts for my education. :)
L@@KS like something that could be used in more cities than Philly. :P
...gm
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Senior Member
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21. July 2007 @ 20:19 |
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What happens when you misdial? Shoot your ear off? Only Gerry1 and his obsession with cats from hell. Just finished watching "Shooter" Wonder if Gerry will buy a .50 cal for long distance calling?
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Auslander
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21. July 2007 @ 20:21 |
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i just use my combination slingshot/tin-can-on-a-string out here in the boonies.
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22. July 2007 @ 02:48 |
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Question for my fellow gun nutters (joking!) across the pond; Whilst purchasing 500 rounds of .22 hollow points at my friendly local gun shop, someone said that in the States you were not allowed to have silencers on your firearms... Is this true?
Gif by Phantom69
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PacMan777
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22. July 2007 @ 02:50 |
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Gerry
The Nokia/Glock would be handy for any local. A person could call up any type of varmint (human or animal) and ask them to leave with authority. LOL Now I need to find one for my collection. They're not available in the more fashionable gun shops yet. ;)
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PacMan777
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22. July 2007 @ 02:51 |
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Originally posted by pulsar:
Question for my fellow gun nutters (joking!) across the pond; Whilst purchasing 500 rounds of .22 hollow points at my friendly local gun shop, someone said that in the States you were not allowed to have silencers on your firearms... Is this true?
True.
Edit: I should have said true and false, it varies by state.
http://www.mp5.net/info/sbsconr.htm
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. July 2007 @ 02:56
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gerry1
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22. July 2007 @ 07:33 |
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@Blivet...haven't had a chance to use it yet; I have to subscribe to cell service before it will function. It can also shoot the person your calling with a bullet through the ear :)
Pulsar:
Quote:
someone said that in the States you were not allowed to have silencers on your firearms... Is this true?
I'm sure this is nothing but a slight inconvenience. Short of a nuclear weapon, you can get whatever you want with minimal effort. (I'm not even sure of the nuclear weapon!)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. July 2007 @ 07:38
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Senior Member
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22. July 2007 @ 14:33 |
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Quote:
someone said that in the States you were not allowed to have silencers on your firearms... Is this true
Essentially, yes, the laws in the U.S. are fairly strict. It's extraordinarily difficult to get a silencer - legally, that is- which were restricted under the National Firearms Act of 1934, which also restricted machine guns, short-barrelled shotguns, etc. Even if you can obtain one, they are generally not legal for use in hunting or other purposes. Most states specifically restrict them as well, and, because sound suppressors also mask muzzle flash, putting one on a gun turns a previously-legal gun into an "assault weapon". Of course, there is no shortage of them as they are apparently quite easy to make, and design plans abound on both the internet and in book form. :(
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. July 2007 @ 14:59
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PacMan777
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23. July 2007 @ 00:09 |
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Here's a website discussing silencer ownership in the US.
http://www.advanced-armament.com/owners.asp
Quote:
Silencers, like machine-guns, are proscribed under the National Firearms Act (NFA) of 1934, and are regulated by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms. The procedure for owning a silencer may seem daunting at first, but actually requires less paperwork than buying an automobile.
Many states allow ownership of silencers. But most people don't want to go through the ordeal of filing the permit.
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23. July 2007 @ 01:44 |
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Hmm, most interesting, many thanks for your replies. In the UK, once you have purchased your silencer (as per specified in your firearms certificate), you are not allowed to purchase another, unless you specify that it if for an air rifle...
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