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Neph's POLITE Gun Debate
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PacMan777
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25. November 2008 @ 11:44 |
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Originally posted by creaky:
LOL not me. A Brit with a gun constitutes a dangerous criminal :)
The only people with guns here are police, farmers and criminals, and the army, not the general population.
You have to look over me. Sometimes I get in a hurry and blame the wrong moderator. LOL I meant Neph. He's a good shot and makes his own ammo.
@ZippyDSM
.32 snub as accurate as the C96? Short answer, no.
The C96 has 3 notable advantages. The longer barrel lends itself to better accuracy and longer range. The original 9mm round the gun was chambered for is hotter than today's 9mm parabellum. That means a larger and significantly higher velocity round than a .32 which translates into much greater range and knockdown power. The C96 had an effective range of about 220 yards and the max about 2200 yards. The originals came with 6, 10, and 20 round boxed in clips. Being an auto with more rounds is another advantage over a snub revolver. I'd like the higher capacity, removable clips over the built in clip setup. To move up to a 10mm in this gun would require a heavier barrel, chamber, and cycling mechanism to handle the increased chamber pressures and recoil. Not hard to do in the fictional world though.
Some people say if you shoot a man with a .32, you're only going to make him mad. Not true, but a heavier caliber would be better for the snub revolver. Better rounds are the .38, .357 magnum, and .44 special. I don't recommend a .44 magnum snub for obvious reasons. They kill on both ends. If you can take the heat, you can take out a moose. LOL Your fictional shooter can use the .44 mag or something bigger. He has an arm as large and as steady as a tree trunk. ;) Ammo is important in a .32 snub. Hollowpoints like the old "Black Talon" are recommended for self defense. With practice and familiarity with a good snub, you can hit combat targets farther than you need to be using this type firearm. Naturally a magnum snub has better range and adjustable sights usually improve accuracy. The shorter the sight plane, the more difficult it is to make a good shot.
The Thompson SMG used a .45 auto round. It has tremendous knockdown power and the recoil is easy enough to control under rapid fire. It's not a long range gun by any means. The larger 7.62x39mm used in the Russian SKS carbine, AK47 (and others), along with the 7.62x51mm NATO round are naturally better at longer range, but the heavier recoil make them more difficult to control under rapid fire conditions. Most armies have moved to smaller rounds with higher velocities that give better control with less recoil.
Hope that addresses your particular questions. If you need more detail you'll need to be more specific.
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25. November 2008 @ 12:33 |
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Some people say if you shoot a man with a .32, you're only going to make him mad. Not true,
How true, the Israeli Mossad primarily use .22's for assassinations in close range due to the lack of noise and the size involved.
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25. November 2008 @ 13:22 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
Originally posted by creaky:
LOL not me. A Brit with a gun constitutes a dangerous criminal :)
The only people with guns here are police, farmers and criminals, and the army, not the general population.
You have to look over me. Sometimes I get in a hurry and blame the wrong moderator. LOL I meant Neph. He's a good shot and makes his own ammo.
@ZippyDSM
.32 snub as accurate as the C96? Short answer, no.
The C96 has 3 notable advantages. The longer barrel lends itself to better accuracy and longer range. The original 9mm round the gun was chambered for is hotter than today's 9mm parabellum. That means a larger and significantly higher velocity round than a .32 which translates into much greater range and knockdown power. The C96 had an effective range of about 220 yards and the max about 2200 yards. The originals came with 6, 10, and 20 round boxed in clips. Being an auto with more rounds is another advantage over a snub revolver. I'd like the higher capacity, removable clips over the built in clip setup. To move up to a 10mm in this gun would require a heavier barrel, chamber, and cycling mechanism to handle the increased chamber pressures and recoil. Not hard to do in the fictional world though.
Some people say if you shoot a man with a .32, you're only going to make him mad. Not true, but a heavier caliber would be better for the snub revolver. Better rounds are the .38, .357 magnum, and .44 special. I don't recommend a .44 magnum snub for obvious reasons. They kill on both ends. If you can take the heat, you can take out a moose. LOL Your fictional shooter can use the .44 mag or something bigger. He has an arm as large and as steady as a tree trunk. ;) Ammo is important in a .32 snub. Hollowpoints like the old "Black Talon" are recommended for self defense. With practice and familiarity with a good snub, you can hit combat targets farther than you need to be using this type firearm. Naturally a magnum snub has better range and adjustable sights usually improve accuracy. The shorter the sight plane, the more difficult it is to make a good shot.
The Thompson SMG used a .45 auto round. It has tremendous knockdown power and the recoil is easy enough to control under rapid fire. It's not a long range gun by any means. The larger 7.62x39mm used in the Russian SKS carbine, AK47 (and others), along with the 7.62x51mm NATO round are naturally better at longer range, but the heavier recoil make them more difficult to control under rapid fire conditions. Most armies have moved to smaller rounds with higher velocities that give better control with less recoil.
Hope that addresses your particular questions. If you need more detail you'll need to be more specific.
Well FO3 dose not have ammo types FO1-2 did they did a bit to much simplifying on FO3..I mean if you are not going to give ammo weight at least make ammo deversive...*complain complain complain*
Ok so the 32 is a glorified BB gun in a straight fight, I believe its based on the THAMES ARMS CAL.32 it may or may not qaulfiy as a snub, planing so far it being the weakest pistol is correct on my part also limited range but great accuracy for its range(its that or give it 5X condition), now power wise its going to be as strong in straight damage as the silenced 10MM thats 15 on max condition(yes weapons degrade in FO3 >> and the only way to fix it is to use another weapon of its same type to fix itself...), the silenced 10MM will lose condition fast due to the silencer but have a killer critical damage of 50.
Now here's a question a silencer is going to effect range and velocity right? Its going to lower them I believe.
Ok so now here's a conundrum the 10MM (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/10mm) pistol was made the best pistol not counting the .44 its a sniping weapon with limited ammo. So the question is whitch of these 2 would have the better range/power? Would the 10M have better accuracy than the C96? would going to a 5.56(for lack of a 7.XX) round assist accuracy/range?
DOH! over looked the AK47 LOL
mmmm well they put in alot of info on the wiki over it
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/R91_Assault_Rifle
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Chinese_Assault_Rifle
Now these are more fictional than the pistols, pretty much a mish mash of old and modern tech on the nato round. Opinions plz ^-^
From playing it and musing on it my first thoughts are to make the Assault rifle more accurate with a minor damage boost, the Chinese assault rifle will be alil less accurate but do more damage on a 32 count clip to makeup for the spamage.
FYI the nato round I am referring to is the 5.56, useless I read my researched wrong its its been dubed the new nato standard..or whatever....I read wif mew teeth half the time LOL
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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PacMan777
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26. November 2008 @ 00:04 |
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Sounds like you answered your own questions?
Check out the AK-10X family and the AN94? The Russians make some nice guns. I'm more partial to the German and US firearms though.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. November 2008 @ 00:25
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26. November 2008 @ 00:18 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
Sounds like you answered your own questions?
For some maybe let me simplify the question and keep my arse shut, for the 7.xx/5.xx assault rifle models what are the main difference in the power/accuracy of the Chinese/Russian and American variants?
Am I even close in saying the Chinese/Russian ones have alil more power but more quirks?
the 32. should do well as a short range accurate low damage pistol, the C96 is going to give me a headache because it seems to be an all around powerful pistol it has range,accuracy and power with the 10MM begin its little(as in less damage and accuracy) modern sibling.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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PacMan777
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26. November 2008 @ 00:31 |
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Nowadays the Chinese and Russian guns are often chambered to accept the NATO rounds as well as the Russian calibers. They cater to their export customers' preferences. I prefer the Russian guns over the Chinese. As I added to the post above, I prefer the German and American guns, but the Russians make some nice guns. I'd like to get my hands on an AN94 or an AK101, but that's not likely to happen. I don't have a license for automatic weapons and the guns are rare to the US. Last I noticed, the AN94 wasn't for sale
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. November 2008 @ 00:37
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26. November 2008 @ 00:50 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
Nowadays the Chinese and Russian guns are often chambered to accept the NATO rounds as well as the Russian calibers. They cater to their export customers' preferences. I prefer the Russian guns over the Chinese. As I added to the post above, I prefer the German and American guns, but the Russians make some nice guns. I'd like to get my hands on an AN94 or an AK101, but that's not likely to happen. I don't have a license for automatic weapons and the guns are rare to the US. Last I noticed, the AN94 wasn't for sale
*nods*
So tell me for the perpouse of unqiness/diversity in a game world would the Chinese model be that much different than the US model (I mean when they use the same ammo and are almost the same in spec it can drive you crazy trying to do something with them) if you slant them to a real world base?
I mean its going to fall into 3 main categories power,range and accuracy with clip begin a 4th but not as important as the other 3, when I can script for the fudging thing I do condition and rate of fire tricks but thats for later trying to find some place to start.
I mean you can even make the Chinese variant more polished in its main 3 stats and have the US version a little sibling to it maybe give it higher condition it might not be as precise or powerful but it will last longer compared to its Chinese counterpart, these are the nuances I wish to create but I am at a loss as to the main difference in them. for the C96 I have 2 choices make it the best pistol on the 3 main stats or give it less power for even better accuracy on the 5.56 round.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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26. November 2008 @ 00:59 |
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Accidentally unsubscribed. Just posting to get notifications again.
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PacMan777
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26. November 2008 @ 01:17 |
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Tighter manufacturing tolerances usually means better accuracy. A strange thing happens though, the tighter guns need more service. With the old AKs, you could get mud in the action and it wouldn't disable the gun. Do the same to some of the guns like the M14 and M16 and you'd get a jam. That forward assist was put in there for a reason.
In the real world the C96 is a better all around pistol. As for the 10mm auto and the 5.56, you're looking at a heavy pistol caliber and a high velocity rifle caliber respectively. Do a google on the ammo and learn the traits and uses. Then relate them to guns using barrel lengths and cyclic rates for accuracy and firepower (factoring in build quality of course).
If you want to check out a heavy hitter for close work, look to the Remington 870 pump shotgun. It's been in service with the military and law enforcement for a long time. The military variant has a bayonet lug. I notice some use shotguns in your game.
For home defense, it's hard to beat an 870 Mag loaded with buckshot, with magazine extension, short police barrel, and synthetic stocks with accessory attachments. Beware the pistol grips, they limit how you can handle the gun.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. November 2008 @ 01:38
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26. November 2008 @ 01:32 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
Tighter manufacturing tolerances usually means better accuracy. A strange thing happens though, the tighter guns need more service. With the old AKs, you could get mud in the action and it wouldn't disable the gun. Do the same to some of the guns like the M14 and M16 and you'd get a jam. That forward assist was put in there for a reason.
In the real world the C96 is a better all around pistol. As for the 10mm auto and the 5.56, you're looking at a heavy pistol caliber and a high velocity rifle caliber respectively. Do a google on the ammo and learn the traits and uses. Then relate them to guns using barrel lengths and cyclic rates for accuracy and firepower (factoring in build quality of course).
Ohhh now there is food for thought. Would it out of the question then to have the Chinese assault rifle being more fussy but better at just about everything?
Looking over the 10MM wiki again what it has is power but can have worse recoil this can equate to accuracy loss, so the C96 will be the best all around pistol,at least of the normal ones.
Thanks for the info and the help I think I got it now =^^=
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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PacMan777
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26. November 2008 @ 02:36 |
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Quote:
Would it out of the question then to have the Chinese assault rifle being more fussy but better at just about everything?
Usually doesn't happen in the real world. The Russian AKs are more sought after than the Chinese due to build quality. The guns have intentionally loose tolerances so they will continue to cycle when they start getting dirty inside. I've not seen the newer AK10X series, so I'm not sure what they're doing now. I hear they're almost an exact replica of the old AK47 using different calibers and modern composites.
Except for a custom AR and some specialty guns like the Remington XP and Thompson Center, I've not seen many guns resembling a pistol that uses a 5.56 (in the real world). Those guns use rifle actions. The AR pistol was built for a world long distance championship match where the shooters have to use both pistol and rifle. The custom AR had a manual bolt instead of being automatic. Bolt action Remington XP pistols usually dominate the long range pistol category (the XP is basically a shortened bolt action rifle with a modified stock with a pistol grip).
The 5.56 being a rifle round has more power and recoil than the 10mm auto (pistol round). The 10mm is heavy for a pistol though and recoil is a problem with the handguns. That's why many law enforcement and government agencies in the US adopted the .40 S&W. Same size bullet as the 10mm, but with a shorter case and less load. It's just a tad smaller than the .45 and is a higher velocity round similar to the 9mm. Think of it as a good cross between high velocity and heavier rounds, with less recoil (from the lighter load). With the tradeoffs, the .40 is an excellent pistol round (heavier than a 9mm, lower recoil than the 10mm, and still retaining relatively high velocity). Earlier I pointed out a light SMG that's chambered for the S&W .40 caliber.
As I mentioned earlier, pay attention to the use of the round and the load as well as the caliber size. A 25-06 (pronounced 25 aught 6) is a varmint rifle caliber with a case about the size of a 30-06 (which uses the same size bullet as the 7.62 NATO, with a slightly larger case). For perspective, a .308 is a cut down 30-06, and the .308 is very close to the 7.62 NATO, interchangeable when headspace specs overlap. The 30-06 was the standard for earlier US military use, then came the 7.62 NATO and later the 5.56. There seemed to be an issue with recoil and weight. LOL My preference lies toward the heavier guns as long as I don't have to carry them all day. Back to what I was talking about, the 25-06 and the diminutive 25 auto pistol round are both 25 caliber. There's one heck of a difference in size of the case and load, bullet velocity, and recoil. The 25-06 round is about as long as some .25 auto pistols I've seen.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. November 2008 @ 02:39
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26. November 2008 @ 05:09 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
Quote:
Would it out of the question then to have the Chinese assault rifle being more fussy but better at just about everything?
Usually doesn't happen in the real world. The Russian AKs are more sought after than the Chinese due to build quality. The guns have intentionally loose tolerances so they will continue to cycle when they start getting dirty inside. I've not seen the newer AK10X series, so I'm not sure what they're doing now. I hear they're almost an exact replica of the old AK47 using different calibers and modern composites.
Except for a custom AR and some specialty guns like the Remington XP and Thompson Center, I've not seen many guns resembling a pistol that uses a 5.56 (in the real world). Those guns use rifle actions. The AR pistol was built for a world long distance championship match where the shooters have to use both pistol and rifle. The custom AR had a manual bolt instead of being automatic. Bolt action Remington XP pistols usually dominate the long range pistol category (the XP is basically a shortened bolt action rifle with a modified stock with a pistol grip).
The 5.56 being a rifle round has more power and recoil than the 10mm auto (pistol round). The 10mm is heavy for a pistol though and recoil is a problem with the handguns. That's why many law enforcement and government agencies in the US adopted the .40 S&W. Same size bullet as the 10mm, but with a shorter case and less load. It's just a tad smaller than the .45 and is a higher velocity round similar to the 9mm. Think of it as a good cross between high velocity and heavier rounds, with less recoil (from the lighter load). With the tradeoffs, the .40 is an excellent pistol round (heavier than a 9mm, lower recoil than the 10mm, and still retaining relatively high velocity). Earlier I pointed out a light SMG that's chambered for the S&W .40 caliber.
As I mentioned earlier, pay attention to the use of the round and the load as well as the caliber size. A 25-06 (pronounced 25 aught 6) is a varmint rifle caliber with a case about the size of a 30-06 (which uses the same size bullet as the 7.62 NATO, with a slightly larger case). For perspective, a .308 is a cut down 30-06, and the .308 is very close to the 7.62 NATO, interchangeable when headspace specs overlap. The 30-06 was the standard for earlier US military use, then came the 7.62 NATO and later the 5.56. There seemed to be an issue with recoil and weight. LOL My preference lies toward the heavier guns as long as I don't have to carry them all day. Back to what I was talking about, the 25-06 and the diminutive 25 auto pistol round are both 25 caliber. There's one heck of a difference in size of the case and load, bullet velocity, and recoil. The 25-06 round is about as long as some .25 auto pistols I've seen.
Like I said and the main difrances are on assault rifles that use the same ammo are? If they used different ammo it would be easier to pin them down a bit more all you have to work on is the mechanisms and the barrel length which equates to power/range, accuracy and upkeep the Chinese assaults rifles seem to have alil higher spec meaning more upkeep but offer a slight advantage in power/range and accuracy as the cost of more upkeep.
Now the 10MM has a shorter barrel than the C96 and with the 10MM round to have recoil issues which translates loosely to accuracy and power/range issues, perhaps I am dumbing it down to much but such is tolerances the game will allow me to bed.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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PacMan777
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26. November 2008 @ 13:21 |
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Either I'm missing something, or we don't appear to be in sync. Different ammo you're given can sometimes be used in different or the same type firearms. 10mm can be used in both pistols and rifle type SMGs. Totally different handling characteristics because of the applications. One is high recoil, the other fairly light. The 5.56 (223) when rarely used in a pistol is extremely heavy, it's most often used for a rifle. Longer barrel rifles become self defeating. Most assault weapons nowadays have shorter barrels than in the past. After a certain length the longer barrel doesn't help distance. The powder charge is burned and the pressure is no longer increasing. Optimum barrel length would be where the pressure is highest and the bullet reaches maximum velocity. When shooting open sights the longer sight plane helps. But optics are normally used for longer distances decreasing the need for a longer sight plane. Take a look at the new Walther sniper rifles. The round and application is more important than just a stated caliber. 30 caliber covers a lot of territory, say from a 30-30 on up to the 30-06 (larger than the 7.62).
10mm auto, heavy for a pistol, light for a rifle.
5.56 NATO, heavy and rarely used for pistols, fairly light for a rifle.
7.62 NATO and Russian, moderately heavy rifle caliber, similar to the .308 (30 caliber family).
Why would a Chinese gun chambered in the same round be more of anything than another similar gun chambered for the same round, especially when Chinese guns in the past have been known for inferior quality?
Similar gun, the bigger round, the higher velocity with more distance (and normally more knockdown and recoil).
Round (bullet size and load) makes most difference when using similar firearms, weight of bullet also effects trajectory.
Small, short barrel guns known for concealability (concealed carry).
Pistols with longer sight planes (no optics) are better for accuracy than with pistols having shorter barrels. Usually longer barrels in pistol applications does help improve distance.
Look at a snubnose fire at night and you can see why barrel length shorter than optimum effects distance. I lot of unused powder burned outside the barrel. That's where application for a round comes in. Gun design is a game of balancing the different factors to achieve a desired goal, while trading off on other performance aspects.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. December 2008 @ 01:56
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5. March 2009 @ 09:04 |
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What next, coat hangers, I guess the politicos don't realize that it is the nature of the individual versus the contents of his/her pockets eh?
Quote:
Knife crime in Britain is a political hot topic due to a spate of recent killings of mainly young people in major cities. UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown has urged tougher sentences for those caught carrying knives. He told the Daily Telegraph last month: "By carrying a knife you are not only endangering the lives of others, but you are more likely to be killed, or end up in jail.
Quote:
"We need to change the way young people think about knives, we need families and communities working together ... to get this message across and help stamp out knife crime and get weapons off our streets."
Full Story Here
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. March 2009 @ 09:04
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5. March 2009 @ 16:29 |
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blivet you should start another thread about this stuff. I can't believe these people keep letting govt steal their rights to NOT only protect themselves but to protect their families. There are other stories that would break your heart of men that have gone to jail for protecting their property or family against would be assailants or other POS criminals.
...gm
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5. March 2009 @ 20:06 |
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This forum is fine, in honor of Neph who started this one, besides we can't have too many political views running around here in our technical forum eh?
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6. March 2009 @ 22:04 |
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Originally posted by blivetNC:
This forum is fine, in honor of Neph who started this one, besides we can't have too many political views running around here in our technical forum eh?
Yes sir, you're prolly right. ;) I better behave or I'll get a visit from binkie or someone who is just downright mean. ROFL. :P
.....gm
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PacMan777
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26. March 2009 @ 22:49 |
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In the US, and many 3rd world countries, knife related deaths have decreased. People learned quickly they shouldn't take knives to a gunfight. I sometimes carry a Butterfly auto, but can't think of much more than "whittling" to use it for. LOL
"The pen is mightier than the sword."
Well, somebody said that. Edward Bulwer-Lytton comes to mind. Euripides wrote (406 BC) "the tongue is mightier than the blade". Obviously he didn't meet the guy who was cutting out tongues. But on a more serious note, if the UK keeps going, the citizenry is going to be limited to sharp pointed objects, sticks, and clubs to protect themselves. No swords, so the pen will have to be mightier. I guess they'll be outlawing pencils and pencil sharpeners next.
I'm looking for a Panther 308 SASS. Anyone seen one for sale at a reasonable price (MSRP about $2100)?.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. March 2009 @ 23:08
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27. March 2009 @ 11:09 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
In the US, and many 3rd world countries, knife related deaths have decreased. People learned quickly they shouldn't take knives to a gunfight. I sometimes carry a Butterfly auto, but can't think of much more than "whittling" to use it for. LOL
"The pen is mightier than the sword."
Well, somebody said that. Edward Bulwer-Lytton comes to mind. Euripides wrote (406 BC) "the tongue is mightier than the blade". Obviously he didn't meet the guy who was cutting out tongues. But on a more serious note, if the UK keeps going, the citizenry is going to be limited to sharp pointed objects, sticks, and clubs to protect themselves. No swords, so the pen will have to be mightier. I guess they'll be outlawing pencils and pencil sharpeners next.
I'm looking for a Panther 308 SASS. Anyone seen one for sale at a reasonable price (MSRP about $2100)?.
True story about pencils and sharpeners. lol. :P
I saw one the other day PacMan... but can't remember the price. It was outta my price range so didn't take it into memory. I'll look and see what I see today. I'm going out at some point today so I'll be on the look for a 308 Panther. :) Ordered an STG58 some time ago, but NOT here yet. :D
PM me PacMan for some info.
Hope all are doing well!!
...gm
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27. March 2009 @ 11:27 |
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Next we will be going back to sticks, stones, bows and arrows for "Neighborly relations". Why can't the politicos see the disease instead of the symptoms? The basic problem is this, the majority of gun owners never even entertain the thought of going out and shooting someone, the majority of serious martial arts students/masters don't go around kicking random victims butts, why? Discipline and self respect. Maybe I'm wrong here but the problem lies wholely in the mind of the criminal.
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27. March 2009 @ 11:44 |
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Originally posted by blivetNC:
Next we will be going back to sticks, stones, bows and arrows for "Neighborly relations". Why can't the politicos see the disease instead of the symptoms? The basic problem is this, the majority of gun owners never even entertain the thought of going out and shooting someone, the majority of serious martial arts students/masters don't go around kicking random victims butts, why? Discipline and self respect. Maybe I'm wrong here but the problem lies wholely in the mind of the criminal.
Bro, you are already preaching to the choir here. Most of us here understand it, but unfortunately, the ones who don't see it have the majoity of the politicos ears. I haven't had a chance to go to the range in a few months, and it seems that it was a good decision as of late. I walked into the local wally world, and noticed their supply of ammo was bare. I still have quite a few boxes of ammo I haven't used, so I'm saving those for now.
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27. March 2009 @ 14:17 |
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Originally posted by blivetNC:
Maybe I'm wrong here but the problem lies wholely in the mind of the criminal.
NOT wrong but completely CORRECT in my mind!!!! Remember the criminal doesn't stop at the guy breaking into your house but the one that is trying to take away your rights is the REAL CRIMINAL!!!!!!
I'll leave it at that as I'm sure I'll get in more trouble than is needed. :P
...gm
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27. March 2009 @ 23:51 |
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Originally posted by rtm27:
Originally posted by blivetNC:
Next we will be going back to sticks, stones, bows and arrows for "Neighborly relations". Why can't the politicos see the disease instead of the symptoms? The basic problem is this, the majority of gun owners never even entertain the thought of going out and shooting someone, the majority of serious martial arts students/masters don't go around kicking random victims butts, why? Discipline and self respect. Maybe I'm wrong here but the problem lies wholely in the mind of the criminal.
Bro, you are already preaching to the choir here. Most of us here understand it, but unfortunately, the ones who don't see it have the majoity of the politicos ears. I haven't had a chance to go to the range in a few months, and it seems that it was a good decision as of late. I walked into the local wally world, and noticed their supply of ammo was bare. I still have quite a few boxes of ammo I haven't used, so I'm saving those for now.
You are not alone, same problem persists here as well on the ammo shortage.
BTW: blivet, you are 100% correct in my eyes as well.
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28. March 2009 @ 10:22 |
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Greetings all :)
Every Walmart in metro Phoenix has bare ammo shelves. Hell, my uncle in Colorado just emailed everyone he knew because he's having a bitch of a time even finding large rifle primers. I've seen similar things happen when other democratic presidents were elected but no where near this level and certainly not for this long. Items like two-way radios, GPS units and generators are selling like crazy too.
One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America
High fives to all in this thread, even the dissenters for exercising their right to disagree!
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. March 2009 @ 11:17 |
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Originally posted by Nephilim:
Greetings all :)
Every Walmart in metro Phoenix has bare ammo shelves. Hell, my uncle in Colorado just emailed everyone he knew because he's having a bitch of a time even finding large rifle primers. I've seen similar things happen when other democratic presidents were elected but no where near this level and certainly not for this long. Items like two-way radios, GPS units and generators are selling like crazy too.
One
Big
Ass
Mistake
America
High fives to all in this thread, even the dissenters for exercising their right to disagree!
Oh my!!! The GREAT ONE has graced us with his presence. :) Good to see you my friend and I hope that all is well with you and yours. Don't be such a stranger and I hope ye is still killing those Dang Prairie Rodents. lol. :P
....gm
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