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The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. December 2012 @ 23:59 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Originally posted by theonejrs:
The bad thing about Science, is today they are discovering that with the increased mathematical precision of modern computing, it's showing heretofore unknown mistakes, that were originally thought to be harmless and redundant, as having a great effect on things, like Einstein's Theory of Relativity, for instance, that is no longer considered 100% accurate, and very suspect today! It doesn't look good for science at the moment! What I find very amusing about all of this, this is the same math that says 2012 can't happen, or Nostradamus Quatrains. While you are mulling that one over, here's the new NASA pics of the Earth, from the International Space Station. It's a computer composite in the best resolution ever recorded, someone set to music. It's magnificent!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX7p8_z7rjc
Enjoy,
Russ
Disproving a heretofore unscrutinised theory is never a bad day for science. Were it not for new discoveries like this, we'd still think the earth was the centre of the universe and the sun revolved around it.
Sam,
Truthfully, it's the implications that bother me. We all have learned certain, so called facts, over the years, and are now seeing irrefutable proof that many accepted theories that are considered fact, are wrong!
On another note, My new GigaByte GA-990FXA-UD5 AM3+ motherboard came late Friday. It's an ATX board, and is about the heaviest motherboard I've ever seen, by at least 1/2 a Lb. The attention to little details is amazing. One of the minor shortcomings of the 990XA-UD3 was the heatsinks. They were very easy to accidentally unseat if you pressed on them in the wrong place, and a PITA to re-do, if you did. The new 990FXA-UD5 uses steel screws and springs from the bottom, 3 on the Northbridge, and 3 on the VRMs, so you can't rock these. No plastic push pins!
I'm just about done with the FX-8320 for Russell, and I plan to start my new build in a couple of days. 3.7GHz seems to be the best speed, where the computer has good balance, and plays games best. My Doctors have started me on Oxygen Therapy and I used bottled O2 for a few days, and quickly bought a used O2 concentrator, which makes pure O2 by catalytic means. Much safer, and far less costly. It cost me $260 +tax for just a few days with the tanks. The Concentrator cost $250 plus $50 shipping. It was a very quick, no-brainer! LOL!!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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9. December 2012 @ 05:13 |
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New PSU going to be ordered Monday :)
Having trouble deciding on the brand.
SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold which is lauded as being basically one of the highest quality consumer-grade PSUs you can buy. SPCR basically had no complaint except price to wattage, which I don't necessarily care about.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151088
Corsair 750HX though I am unsure what OEM makes the guts now. Has the added advantage of sharing some components with the 850HX. Reviews are generally very good.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...Corsair%20750HX
Cougar GX750. Very good review from SPCR only criticizing the fact that it was really 80-plus Silver certified on American current and not Gold as advertised. Also the fan was a bit noisy but it ran cool. Interested because it has very nice internals like both of the above and rock solid stable voltages.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.a...=Power-Supplies
I am most interested by the Corsair and Seasonic, but am wondering if the Cougar is a better value.
Leaning toward the Corsair HX. Went to BestBuy and they only had lower-end Corsair units. Seems to be the BestBuy/Corsair official deal, the Corsair GS Gamer Series. Nasty reviews at consumer level, but seemingly alright units. I would like at least 700 watts so I can put less load on the PSU and hopefully reduce heat some and increase efficiency. So the HX series fits the bill. The X650 is so nice though.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. December 2012 @ 09:44
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9. December 2012 @ 13:44 |
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Originally posted by Russ:
the minor shortcomings of the 990XA-UD3 was the heatsinks
This is something I've noticed on my Gigabyte boards as well lately but also on some of the other mfg's too. The UD5 was on my list for the new case but I think I'm going to go with the Fatality1 instead. It too has better heatsinks like the UD5 but it has two LANs which I can use right now in my setup and it is a high-end feature rich board.
Jeff, I was looking at that same SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold too and it is a strong runner for my upgrade as well. Very nice PS..... I'm also thinking like you as I'm leaning towards a 700w PS and may get the RAIDMAX Blackstone series RX-700AC 700W $53 cheaper then the SeaSonic however not the same quality but I've used plenty of different RAIDMAX power units and they never have let me down.
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15 product reviews
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9. December 2012 @ 14:24 |
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Personally would never risk a Raidmax PSU. Their cases and other accessories are fine but one should really use a higher-end PSU for any sort of performance build. I doubt that 700W unit can really do 700W. No professional reviews that I can find. You can cheap out on many things easily but the PSU is not one. They carry a hefty price of failure.
The X650 has the nod for quality but the 750HX has sheer capability plus many parts from 850W PSUs so has some overhead. A few drives, Crossfire video cards, a hefty mobo, and an OC'd 6 core are going to need a lot of juice. Ideally the 650W should more than suffice but under what percentage of load? Lower loads = higher efficiency = lower heat = better ripple characteristics. Especially useful things for OCing and gaming.
Also just have to paint and install my new intake side panel. Simply been lazy and leaving the side to hang open until I get all my new stuff :D
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. December 2012 @ 14:33
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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9. December 2012 @ 14:29 |
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All comes down to what's inside it. You can find some cheap terrible PSUs that have relatively solid insides sometimes. Not often, but it happens.
For most people though it's a case of not if but when. Usually when good PSUs fail (again, not always, but the vast majority of the time) they fail safe, and simply need replacing.
When cheap PSUs fail, they often take other components with them, or start fires (or both!)
When that's never happened to you before, it's easy to be blasé about it. Once it does happen though, it's not a mistake you make a second time. 7 years ago I did very nearly encounter a fire were it not for some quick action pulling the power cable out.
The failure of a £25 PSU cost me £40 for a system repair [at the time, I didn't feel it was safe to test the individual components, nor did I have the time], the value of a higher quality PSU, a floppy disk drive, one hard disk (and its data), just the data on another and a stick of RAM - all in, negating the value of the data, about £200 of damage. I got very lucky as the graphics card (then worth almost £300) and the board/CPU survived 'unscathed' although they were never very stable after that.
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15 product reviews
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9. December 2012 @ 14:31 |
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Read my edit.
Funny enough I am somewhat excited for a 6 core. I'm not sure if the 955BE's current inability to OC is the fault of the board, PSU or the chip itself, so am interested to see what replacing the PSU does for me. I know the +5v voltage dips out of spec now and then which can't be good for stability regardless of the small amount it is used(or maybe I'm wrong and it's heavily used.) What runs on the +5v these days?
I stand to gain performance due to more cores, the vastly superior IMC and the higher clock potential of Thuban over Deneb. 4-4.2GHz should put me in the same ballpark as the average i5/i7 though obviously not a heavily OC'd one. Board is being replaced with a late model 990FX-UD5, so very capable for the task. A shame few games take advantage of more than 4 cores, but those that do are the ones that can use it.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. December 2012 @ 15:24
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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9. December 2012 @ 15:26 |
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Update: Made my purchase a day early :)
750HX, Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, and a new 140mm Cooler Master case fan for rear exhaust. The original is being installed on the side panel when it is finished. I believe they are identical. Free shipping, $175.
I have mixed feelings about the 750HX not being a Seasonic but my budget means that $150+ for the next highest priced proper PSU is a bit much if I don't want to eat into my next paycheck. Also a recent discovery has been made that the Seasonic X650 has somewhat shorter cabling. Ouch. Still, it's a high end Corsair. Enough said. CWT(Channel Well) units are still very good, all things considered. One reviewer noted that it could technically be rated as a 900W PSU in a load testing environment, but 750W gets it the 80 Plus Gold. Add to all this a quieter and better 140mm fan. It also has a beefy 7 year warranty and a $25 MIR I might as well fill out. Very promising.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/...ly-Review/775/8
The Hyper 212 Evo is being purchased as an attempted replacement for the CoolIt Eco 120. I do not trust it anymore as its cooling capacity is mediocre and it is much too sensitive to ambient temps and long running. I believe the Hyper 212 Evo is also capable of dissipating more wattage. At worse I can sell it very quickly. Best case scenario, it's got slightly better temp characteristics and doesn't idle nearly as hot with OC'd chips. Other forums seem to agree with that stance. Many even say it's simply "a better cooler". At the price I got it at, it's certainly worth a try. Worth noting I always run my CPU fans full blast.
I could go for higher flow fans, but overall throughput isn't as important for me as placement. The lack of a dedicated rear exhaust and a tower cooler with its own dedicated fans eats into air flow. There is simply not enough exhaust for the case due to the placement of the Cool-It 120 radiator, which needs to be blowing inward to get any airflow. After these changes are complete it should be very similar to a stock HAF 932. Keep in mind mine is a hodgepodge Frankenstein built from a stripped AMD Edition without a side fan hole. The window was nice but hard to keep clean. Also just having it removed from the side panel improves temps considerably. The HAF 932 cools significantly better than the AMD Edition.
TL;DR
I hope to significantly improve my airflow and solve some problems with my PC before moving on to bigger and better hardware :)
A 1090T or 1100T will for sure be in my possession this or next month come hell or high water. I can definitely make use of my current motherboard if the need arises. It is still fairly capable. Yet to be seen if the 990FX-UD5 will be mine :) Might possibly get a very similar 890FX-UD5. Both are equally capable as far as this chip is concerned. Juggling deals among friends right now. Both are getting ready to make some upgrades. One to (the admittedly a bit better than Bulldozer) Piledriver and one to Intel with I believe a 2600K.
I do concede that Piledriver OC's better than Phenm II and seems to finally be faster in the long run.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. December 2012 @ 16:28
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Senior Member
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9. December 2012 @ 22:04 |
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There is nothing wrong with RAIDMAX supplies and I guaranty that you wouldn't know the difference between whatever you buy and them. The only way you would know there is a difference is by seeing the name on the cases. Power Supplies are not much different in design between all PS's, they are VERY basic units and haven't changed much over time. The biggest change years ago was to go to a switching supply and then in PC's moving from AT to ATX where the moterboard has more control and the switch isn't directly wire to the PSU.
Sam is correct that some cheap supplies can burn up your system when they fail however that is truly rare and if you get an in-expensive 80% rate certified supply the design should be decent no mater the price tag although caps and can very and life expectancy will be effected. An example of poor quality components in PSUs would be CoolMaster which I won't buy anymore especially since they don't honor their warranty. With in a year my 600w went down, the supply worked well prior but just stopped working at least the 5v & 3.3v wouldn't work under load but still tested fine with a PSU tester.
Just like all marketing PSU's rated power is often misleading and seldom can you use the full rated power across all rails as they share power depending how they are setup.
In conclusion just because you spend a lot doesn't mean you have a better piece of gear.
Stevo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. December 2012 @ 22:05
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7 product reviews
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9. December 2012 @ 22:35 |
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I've never bothered to study PC power supplies. If they're a trusted brand, and meet or exceed certain Energy-Efficient certifications, than I strongly consider them. I make a list of 3 - 10. Depending on price and other criteria. E.g. Modular, cable length, fans, etc. Energy efficiency ratings are of course the number one thing I look for. If they can make quality claims, than they're worth my time and money ;) And when I decide on one or more of them, google and I break it down ;) Though I owe owning my last two corsair models to this thread and another :p
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10. December 2012 @ 00:59 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by Russ:
the minor shortcomings of the 990XA-UD3 was the heatsinks
This is something I've noticed on my Gigabyte boards as well lately but also on some of the other mfg's too. The UD5 was on my list for the new case but I think I'm going to go with the Fatality1 instead. It too has better heatsinks like the UD5 but it has two LANs which I can use right now in my setup and it is a high-end feature rich board.
Jeff, I was looking at that same SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold too and it is a strong runner for my upgrade as well. Very nice PS..... I'm also thinking like you as I'm leaning towards a 700w PS and may get the RAIDMAX Blackstone series RX-700AC 700W $53 cheaper then the SeaSonic however not the same quality but I've used plenty of different RAIDMAX power units and they never have let me down.
Mr-Movies,
So, let me get this right. You want to get the Fatal1ty motherboard because it gives you two lans, and it's a high end feature rich board. It may be high end, but only if you don't plan on overclocking. Unfortunately, for the feature rich part, the bios is no where up to the standards of the motherboard, having only LLC and Cpu voltage adjustments, as per the manual. The UD5 has LLC plus, CPU PLL Voltage control, NB/PCIe/PLL Voltage control, and CPU NB VID Control, all pretty essential for a high stable overclock. Not only that, you are losing two Sata 6.0 ports, so I see nothing gained and quite a bit lost! You can read more about it here!
ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional AM3+
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sab...d80,3068-2.html
No Raidmax anything in this house, except maybe an NIC. It's pretty hard to screw up something that simple, and unlike their cases, you won't get cut to ribbons, installing one. I will warn you about one other thing about RaidMax. They sometimes change manufacturers without warning. In a previous post you mentioned Cool/Master? I believe you meant Cool/Max, because they used to build PSU's for Cooler/Master. They got so bad that Cooler/Master changed manufacturers. I've sold many Cooler/Master PSUs since then, and none have failed that I know of. They aren't very efficient at >73%, but they won't burn the house down either.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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10. December 2012 @ 01:38 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Update: Made my purchase a day early :)
750HX, Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, and a new 140mm Cooler Master case fan for rear exhaust. The original is being installed on the side panel when it is finished. I believe they are identical. Free shipping, $175.
I have mixed feelings about the 750HX not being a Seasonic but my budget means that $150+ for the next highest priced proper PSU is a bit much if I don't want to eat into my next paycheck. Also a recent discovery has been made that the Seasonic X650 has somewhat shorter cabling. Ouch. Still, it's a high end Corsair. Enough said. CWT(Channel Well) units are still very good, all things considered. One reviewer noted that it could technically be rated as a 900W PSU in a load testing environment, but 750W gets it the 80 Plus Gold. Add to all this a quieter and better 140mm fan. It also has a beefy 7 year warranty and a $25 MIR I might as well fill out. Very promising.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/...ly-Review/775/8
The Hyper 212 Evo is being purchased as an attempted replacement for the CoolIt Eco 120. I do not trust it anymore as its cooling capacity is mediocre and it is much too sensitive to ambient temps and long running. I believe the Hyper 212 Evo is also capable of dissipating more wattage. At worse I can sell it very quickly. Best case scenario, it's got slightly better temp characteristics and doesn't idle nearly as hot with OC'd chips. Other forums seem to agree with that stance. Many even say it's simply "a better cooler". At the price I got it at, it's certainly worth a try. Worth noting I always run my CPU fans full blast.
I could go for higher flow fans, but overall throughput isn't as important for me as placement. The lack of a dedicated rear exhaust and a tower cooler with its own dedicated fans eats into air flow. There is simply not enough exhaust for the case due to the placement of the Cool-It 120 radiator, which needs to be blowing inward to get any airflow. After these changes are complete it should be very similar to a stock HAF 932. Keep in mind mine is a hodgepodge Frankenstein built from a stripped AMD Edition without a side fan hole. The window was nice but hard to keep clean. Also just having it removed from the side panel improves temps considerably. The HAF 932 cools significantly better than the AMD Edition.
TL;DR
I hope to significantly improve my airflow and solve some problems with my PC before moving on to bigger and better hardware :)
A 1090T or 1100T will for sure be in my possession this or next month come hell or high water. I can definitely make use of my current motherboard if the need arises. It is still fairly capable. Yet to be seen if the 990FX-UD5 will be mine :) Might possibly get a very similar 890FX-UD5. Both are equally capable as far as this chip is concerned. Juggling deals among friends right now. Both are getting ready to make some upgrades. One to (the admittedly a bit better than Bulldozer) Piledriver and one to Intel with I believe a 2600K.
I do concede that Piledriver OC's better than Phenm II and seems to finally be faster in the long run.
Estuansis,
You can find a good number of new 1090t's on Ebay. If you have a Micro Center near you, they have it for $172.
The question of which overclocks better, Phenom II or Piledriver is too close to call. Don't forget, the 1090t Thuban is a Phenom II, and I'm frankly not so sure that Piledriver can beat it. I've had mine to 4.2GHz, on a lesser motherboard, and with all the adjustments available in the setup of the UD5, I think it's capable of a lot more!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
4 product reviews
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10. December 2012 @ 01:44 |
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the early Reversions of the 990fx UD3 are identical to the UD5, the only difference was packaged software. im using reversion 1.0 of the UD3 and am quite pleased with the purchase.
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4 product reviews
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10. December 2012 @ 01:49 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Originally posted by Estuansis:
Update: Made my purchase a day early :)
750HX, Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo, and a new 140mm Cooler Master case fan for rear exhaust. The original is being installed on the side panel when it is finished. I believe they are identical. Free shipping, $175.
I have mixed feelings about the 750HX not being a Seasonic but my budget means that $150+ for the next highest priced proper PSU is a bit much if I don't want to eat into my next paycheck. Also a recent discovery has been made that the Seasonic X650 has somewhat shorter cabling. Ouch. Still, it's a high end Corsair. Enough said. CWT(Channel Well) units are still very good, all things considered. One reviewer noted that it could technically be rated as a 900W PSU in a load testing environment, but 750W gets it the 80 Plus Gold. Add to all this a quieter and better 140mm fan. It also has a beefy 7 year warranty and a $25 MIR I might as well fill out. Very promising.
http://www.hardwaresecrets.com/article/...ly-Review/775/8
The Hyper 212 Evo is being purchased as an attempted replacement for the CoolIt Eco 120. I do not trust it anymore as its cooling capacity is mediocre and it is much too sensitive to ambient temps and long running. I believe the Hyper 212 Evo is also capable of dissipating more wattage. At worse I can sell it very quickly. Best case scenario, it's got slightly better temp characteristics and doesn't idle nearly as hot with OC'd chips. Other forums seem to agree with that stance. Many even say it's simply "a better cooler". At the price I got it at, it's certainly worth a try. Worth noting I always run my CPU fans full blast.
I could go for higher flow fans, but overall throughput isn't as important for me as placement. The lack of a dedicated rear exhaust and a tower cooler with its own dedicated fans eats into air flow. There is simply not enough exhaust for the case due to the placement of the Cool-It 120 radiator, which needs to be blowing inward to get any airflow. After these changes are complete it should be very similar to a stock HAF 932. Keep in mind mine is a hodgepodge Frankenstein built from a stripped AMD Edition without a side fan hole. The window was nice but hard to keep clean. Also just having it removed from the side panel improves temps considerably. The HAF 932 cools significantly better than the AMD Edition.
TL;DR
I hope to significantly improve my airflow and solve some problems with my PC before moving on to bigger and better hardware :)
A 1090T or 1100T will for sure be in my possession this or next month come hell or high water. I can definitely make use of my current motherboard if the need arises. It is still fairly capable. Yet to be seen if the 990FX-UD5 will be mine :) Might possibly get a very similar 890FX-UD5. Both are equally capable as far as this chip is concerned. Juggling deals among friends right now. Both are getting ready to make some upgrades. One to (the admittedly a bit better than Bulldozer) Piledriver and one to Intel with I believe a 2600K.
I do concede that Piledriver OC's better than Phenm II and seems to finally be faster in the long run.
Estuansis,
You can find a good number of new 1090t's on Ebay. If you have a Micro Center near you, they have it for $172.
The question of which overclocks better, Phenom II or Piledriver is too close to call. Don't forget, the 1090t Thuban is a Phenom II, and I'm frankly not so sure that Piledriver can beat it. I've had mine to 4.2GHz, on a lesser motherboard, and with all the adjustments available in the setup of the UD5, I think it's capable of a lot more!
Best Regards,
Russ
i managed to get my 965BE to 4.6ghz but it started to frits out on me its stable at 4.3Ghz, wish i could say the same about the heat though.
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10. December 2012 @ 09:05 |
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DXR88,
I hate to ask, but how hot does your 965BE run? What case is it in? Type, size and speed of fans and direction of airflow (in/out).
10909t temps at idle, 4GHz
1090t in the 990XA-UD3
I deliberately used different software to show that other programs agree with EasyTune's temps. Looking down the Hardware Monitor Pro list, look at the consistency of the temps. 35C for the GPU core at idle. It was 47C in the 790X-UD4H, with the CPU voltage at 1.424v(MAX). Also note the 36C of the 6 year old Seagate 250, compared to the 2 year old WD-500BE. When I can hear the spindle bearings stating to be audible, I get the data off the drive, now! One time, I lost everything because I wanted to wait 5 days for the weekend LOL!! Data saved, Drive retired!
As far as I'm concerned, the main reason for the low temps, is the new case.
http://www.corsair.com/pc-cases/carbide...tower-case.html
It's flat out the best cooling case I've ever seen. My CPU cooler is a Corsair H60, which is about 35% smaller (25mm vs 38mm) than the dual fan CoolIt system it replaced, and cools with only one single stock pull fan! It's nice to have a reserve like that, where I can add a push fan any time, if needed. All you need is a Phillips screwdriver. Maybe 5 minutes, and you don't have to take out the radiator to do it! I linked you to Corsair, because the Newegg pictures don't do justice to how nice looking this case is, and how functional, especially seeing it with multiple GPU hardware installed, and a 240mm radiator in the "Roof"! I bought 2, on sale for $79 each. It's a mid tower, but a very big one 20.5" deep, 4 5.25 bays, 6 3.5"/2.5" bays
I'll start the 990FXA-UD5/Phenom IIx6 1090t, probably tomorrow night, if I feel as good as I did all day, yesterday and today. My health has improved dramatically in the last month. I had wasted away to 99 Lbs and would barely feed myself. Food just wasn't appealing. Now I eat like a horse! I've gained 16 Lbs so far. I called my Doctor and went to the Hospital earlier today. They look me over, and he says, "something's changed"! I ask what, and he says they don't know. I could have stayed home an saved myself the trip! LOL!! It's now 48H 12M, since I turned my O2 off. I haven't needed it! My skin, which was like sandpaper, because it was dying, one layer at a time, is now reversing itself and feeling soft again. If I feel this good tomorrow, I'm taking my 87 Fiero-GT out for a spin!
Check out that case, it's superb!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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15 product reviews
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10. December 2012 @ 12:05 |
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Glad to hear of your good fortune Russ! I agree that Phenom II is still fundamentally a better chip, but the OCing limit without true water cooling seems limited. They are limited directly by temps.
Am excited for my 1090T and fully intend to put it in a capable board and get a high OC if possible. Most can do 4Ghz at least. The CM Hyper 212 Evo is the newest Hyper 212 version and should be a decent improvement from the Cool-It with the airflow changes. Though it seems newer closed liquid loop coolers from Corsair and CoolIt are much better performers with larger radiators and more powerful pumps.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. December 2012 @ 12:18
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4 product reviews
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10. December 2012 @ 12:14 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
There is nothing wrong with RAIDMAX supplies and I guaranty that you wouldn't know the difference between whatever you buy and them. The only way you would know there is a difference is by seeing the name on the cases. Power Supplies are not much different in design between all PS's, they are VERY basic units and haven't changed much over time. The biggest change years ago was to go to a switching supply and then in PC's moving from AT to ATX where the moterboard has more control and the switch isn't directly wire to the PSU.
Sam is correct that some cheap supplies can burn up your system when they fail however that is truly rare and if you get an in-expensive 80% rate certified supply the design should be decent no mater the price tag although caps and can very and life expectancy will be effected. An example of poor quality components in PSUs would be CoolMaster which I won't buy anymore especially since they don't honor their warranty. With in a year my 600w went down, the supply worked well prior but just stopped working at least the 5v & 3.3v wouldn't work under load but still tested fine with a PSU tester.
Just like all marketing PSU's rated power is often misleading and seldom can you use the full rated power across all rails as they share power depending how they are setup.
In conclusion just because you spend a lot doesn't mean you have a better piece of gear.
Stevo
The last sentiment is true, I had a £140 BeQuiet! 850W unit that was dreadful, but your comment that cheap PSUs very rarely fail in a dangerous manner isn't true, owing to how they're made. Rip apart a cheap PSU and you will find that in actual fact, the components are rated far lower (sometimes as low as 1/6) of the rating on the label. By seriously overloading components like rectifiers, capacitors etc. you run the risk of causing component overheat issues, which given many cheap units do not have overload/overheat protection, can potentially lead to fire.
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10. December 2012 @ 13:44 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by Russ:
the minor shortcomings of the 990XA-UD3 was the heatsinks
This is something I've noticed on my Gigabyte boards as well lately but also on some of the other mfg's too. The UD5 was on my list for the new case but I think I'm going to go with the Fatality1 instead. It too has better heatsinks like the UD5 but it has two LANs which I can use right now in my setup and it is a high-end feature rich board.
Jeff, I was looking at that same SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold too and it is a strong runner for my upgrade as well. Very nice PS..... I'm also thinking like you as I'm leaning towards a 700w PS and may get the RAIDMAX Blackstone series RX-700AC 700W $53 cheaper then the SeaSonic however not the same quality but I've used plenty of different RAIDMAX power units and they never have let me down.
Mr-Movies,
So, let me get this right. You want to get the Fatal1ty motherboard because it gives you two lans, and it's a high end feature rich board. It may be high end, but only if you don't plan on overclocking. Unfortunately, for the feature rich part, the bios is no where up to the standards of the motherboard, having only LLC and Cpu voltage adjustments, as per the manual. The UD5 has LLC plus, CPU PLL Voltage control, NB/PCIe/PLL Voltage control, and CPU NB VID Control, all pretty essential for a high stable overclock. Not only that, you are losing two Sata 6.0 ports, so I see nothing gained and quite a bit lost! You can read more about it here!
ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional AM3+
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sab...d80,3068-2.html
No Raidmax anything in this house, except maybe an NIC. It's pretty hard to screw up something that simple, and unlike their cases, you won't get cut to ribbons, installing one. I will warn you about one other thing about RaidMax. They sometimes change manufacturers without warning. In a previous post you mentioned Cool/Master? I believe you meant Cool/Max, because they used to build PSU's for Cooler/Master. They got so bad that Cooler/Master changed manufacturers. I've sold many Cooler/Master PSUs since then, and none have failed that I know of. They aren't very efficient at >73%, but they won't burn the house down either.
Best Regards,
Russ
So a board isn't full featured if it doesn't have the exact same configuration as your Gigabyte? That's not true if you look at all high-end full featured boards they almost all vary to some degree so I could say that since you don't have two LANs your board isn't full featured which isn't true of course. I didn't say the ASRock had the most features then I would be wrong. As to LLC I'm not sure that the ASRock doesn't provide that feature but truly you don't need automatic load control to have a stable OC'd platform and I know people that have the feature and purposely don't use it. For one in can over or under compensate when it adjusts for load which can be bad depending on where you base voltage is set. Don't take me wrong though I think it is a nice feature and can make OC'n much easier. But personally I don't need it or have to have it to OC and in fact many people have bought this board just to overclock and have done so successfully. Also ASRock MB's allow you to adjust the CPU voltage whether or not you see it in the manual doesn't mean they don't provide those adjustments, I have the capability on much lesser boards of theirs and others who have OC'd that board wouldn't have been able to if the features were not there.
I would like to have the 8 internal SATA3 connectors instead of 6 but sometimes you can't have everything and I can always go to an Add-On card for more SATA. I'm torn between the ASRock and the high-end MSI which I believe has 8 internal SATA's. But I haven't ruled out the Gigabyte either the only reason I'm leaning to something different is I have mostly Gigabyte and would like to play with other boards in order to keep up with what is out there. I see that Tyan is making desktop boards again but I don't think they are as good as they used to be. I wish I was still working at the computer place I used to work at as I dealt with all varieties of equipment and was more current with everything but such is life.
You're correct on the CoolMax I always get the two confused but whether or not you allow RAIMAX PSUs in your home certainly doesn't mean they're bad, they're not. In fact they have a very high customer rating on NewEgg but as you know you can't always go by that of course.
Sam, Just because cheap power supplies lie about their ratings doesn't mean that when they fail they are going to wipe out your system. I truly have worked with and built thousands of PC's and servers and it is extremely rare to seen a PSU wipe out a computer, but it does happen.
More then often it is when Kevin tries to hot swap his Molex connector powered hard drive that you see the MB and or PSU go up in smoke. Sorry Kev the devil made me say that... :D LOL
As too components leading to fire that is true with cheap or quality caps, resistors, transformers (which are the worst second to caps), and diode/rectifiers but with quality components there is a much lesser chance of course. The real problem to wiping out other components like your motherboard is when something shorts and you have a lot of energy built up in capacitance or reluctance then bad things happen.
Sorry for being so long in the mouth,
Stevo
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10. December 2012 @ 23:32 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
Glad to hear of your good fortune Russ! I agree that Phenom II is still fundamentally a better chip, but the OCing limit without true water cooling seems limited. They are limited directly by temps.
Am excited for my 1090T and fully intend to put it in a capable board and get a high OC if possible. Most can do 4Ghz at least. The CM Hyper 212 Evo is the newest Hyper 212 version and should be a decent improvement from the Cool-It with the airflow changes. Though it seems newer closed liquid loop coolers from Corsair and CoolIt are much better performers with larger radiators and more powerful pumps.
Estuansis,
Actually, the funny part is that the corsair H60 has a 25mm thick radiator, the Coolit is 38mm! Both are 120mm radiators, and I'm sure you know that I've never had to clean the CoolIt. It's been almost 2 years now, and since Kevin's sprung a leak, and mine was the oldest one here I decided to give the $57 H60 a try. Now, I've got about 35% less radiator, and two less fans, and after 10 IBT runs at 100% stress the CPU temp will barely hit 53C, at 4GHz. It's such a quiet machine, and it's going to be even quieter after I change the 1700 rpm 74 cfm fan with this PWM Arctic cooling fan.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835186078
350 rpm slower, and doesn't scream at max rpm like the stock corsair pull fan does. It produces the same hi static airflow, but is so much quieter doing it. Some here have said that they wouldn't pay $79 for any case, let alone the $99 retail price. I bought a second one for $79, after seeing how well it cooled the 1090t. I was able to lower the CPU voltage at 4 GHz, from the max 1.424v it took to reach 4GHz, to 1.36v when I installed it in the 990XA-UD3. At stock 3.2 GHz, it runs from 10 to 18% faster than it ran in the 790X-UD4H, depending on what you are running on it.
The 990FXA-UD5 motherboard is a jewel. I lucked out in getting all the goodies with the "open box" one I bought. It even included the 3 way SLI bridge. I double lucked out in getting one that was a re-serialed Rev 1.1, which is the latest board. Why is that lucky, you ask? Because They still field test them with real CPUs, to reduce the likelihood of the customer getting another bad board. Gigabyte also extended me the courtesy of giving me the full 3 year warranty. I was able to successfully argue that since it is a new motherboard, and not a repair, and since Newegg has them on sale for the same price I paid for mine, I was entitled to a full warranty. Outstanding!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128509
At $134.99 after a $20 MIR, it's got to be the best buy around right now, for such a high end Feature Rich AMD motherboard. I also saved the $7.87 shipping because mine came with free shipping. If I should decide to do a high end 2 or 3 way SLI (which I may well do), I know I have the right motherboard for the job, and the right case to keep it cool! Did I say "outstanding"? :) I be very happy!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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11. December 2012 @ 00:47 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by theonejrs:
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by Russ:
the minor shortcomings of the 990XA-UD3 was the heatsinks
This is something I've noticed on my Gigabyte boards as well lately but also on some of the other mfg's too. The UD5 was on my list for the new case but I think I'm going to go with the Fatality1 instead. It too has better heatsinks like the UD5 but it has two LANs which I can use right now in my setup and it is a high-end feature rich board.
Jeff, I was looking at that same SeaSonic X Series X650 Gold too and it is a strong runner for my upgrade as well. Very nice PS..... I'm also thinking like you as I'm leaning towards a 700w PS and may get the RAIDMAX Blackstone series RX-700AC 700W $53 cheaper then the SeaSonic however not the same quality but I've used plenty of different RAIDMAX power units and they never have let me down.
Mr-Movies,
So, let me get this right. You want to get the Fatal1ty motherboard because it gives you two lans, and it's a high end feature rich board. It may be high end, but only if you don't plan on overclocking. Unfortunately, for the feature rich part, the bios is no where up to the standards of the motherboard, having only LLC and Cpu voltage adjustments, as per the manual. The UD5 has LLC plus, CPU PLL Voltage control, NB/PCIe/PLL Voltage control, and CPU NB VID Control, all pretty essential for a high stable overclock. Not only that, you are losing two Sata 6.0 ports, so I see nothing gained and quite a bit lost! You can read more about it here!
ASRock Fatal1ty 990FX Professional AM3+
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/sab...d80,3068-2.html
No Raidmax anything in this house, except maybe an NIC. It's pretty hard to screw up something that simple, and unlike their cases, you won't get cut to ribbons, installing one. I will warn you about one other thing about RaidMax. They sometimes change manufacturers without warning. In a previous post you mentioned Cool/Master? I believe you meant Cool/Max, because they used to build PSU's for Cooler/Master. They got so bad that Cooler/Master changed manufacturers. I've sold many Cooler/Master PSUs since then, and none have failed that I know of. They aren't very efficient at >73%, but they won't burn the house down either.
Best Regards,
Russ
So a board isn't full featured if it doesn't have the exact same configuration as your Gigabyte? That's not true if you look at all high-end full featured boards they almost all vary to some degree so I could say that since you don't have two LANs your board isn't full featured which isn't true of course. I didn't say the ASRock had the most features then I would be wrong. As to LLC I'm not sure that the ASRock doesn't provide that feature but truly you don't need automatic load control to have a stable OC'd platform and I know people that have the feature and purposely don't use it. For one in can over or under compensate when it adjusts for load which can be bad depending on where you base voltage is set. Don't take me wrong though I think it is a nice feature and can make OC'n much easier. But personally I don't need it or have to have it to OC and in fact many people have bought this board just to overclock and have done so successfully. Also ASRock MB's allow you to adjust the CPU voltage whether or not you see it in the manual doesn't mean they don't provide those adjustments, I have the capability on much lesser boards of theirs and others who have OC'd that board wouldn't have been able to if the features were not there.
I would like to have the 8 internal SATA3 connectors instead of 6 but sometimes you can't have everything and I can always go to an Add-On card for more SATA. I'm torn between the ASRock and the high-end MSI which I believe has 8 internal SATA's. But I haven't ruled out the Gigabyte either the only reason I'm leaning to something different is I have mostly Gigabyte and would like to play with other boards in order to keep up with what is out there. I see that Tyan is making desktop boards again but I don't think they are as good as they used to be. I wish I was still working at the computer place I used to work at as I dealt with all varieties of equipment and was more current with everything but such is life.
You're correct on the CoolMax I always get the two confused but whether or not you allow RAIMAX PSUs in your home certainly doesn't mean they're bad, they're not. In fact they have a very high customer rating on NewEgg but as you know you can't always go by that of course.
Sam, Just because cheap power supplies lie about their ratings doesn't mean that when they fail they are going to wipe out your system. I truly have worked with and built thousands of PC's and servers and it is extremely rare to seen a PSU wipe out a computer, but it does happen.
More then often it is when Kevin tries to hot swap his Molex connector powered hard drive that you see the MB and or PSU go up in smoke. Sorry Kev the devil made me say that... :D LOL
As too components leading to fire that is true with cheap or quality caps, resistors, transformers (which are the worst second to caps), and diode/rectifiers but with quality components there is a much lesser chance of course. The real problem to wiping out other components like your motherboard is when something shorts and you have a lot of energy built up in capacitance or reluctance then bad things happen.
Sorry for being so long in the mouth,
Stevo
Stevo,
I'm not sure how you misunderstood me, because I specifically said that the Asrock had both LLC and CPU voltage adjustments. Quote:
Unfortunately, for the feature rich part, the bios is no where up to the standards of the motherboard, having only LLC and Cpu voltage adjustments, as per the manual.
BTW, you might want to give some serious consideration to the UD5. It's on sale at Newegg for $134.99 after a $20 MIR. An outstanding buy at that price!
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128509
As to PSUs, like Sam, I've seen a couple go up in flames, and I've replace many that had caught fire. One particular CoolMax I took apart to see what failed, only to discover that the heat sink was made of cardboard, covered with aluminum foil on both sides. What a joke, and a dangerous one at that! I stick with name brands like my OCZ Fatal1ty 550w 80+ modular
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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11. December 2012 @ 10:20 |
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That's a really good price Russ and I'm sorry I miss understood you on the LLC. I just might go that route for that price, which is really cheap. I can always add a NIC for a second LAN and it would be nice to have the 8 SATA's.
I've seen PSU's flame out but that doesn't mean it takes your whole system down, unless you add-in drapes with the deal. LOL And like I said it is extremely rare for a PSU to flame out, I've only seen it a few times and we are talking over many years and thousands and thousands of PC's. I know what you mean about CoolMax I too won't buy another one and they are extremely cheaply built but I've never seen a Mickey Mouse heat sink like that, what a joke for sure. I also like the OCZ Fatal1ty and it is in my list of possible supplies but like Jeff I'm thinking about a 700w as I may load this build up with lots of drives and possibly three to four video cards. The Gigabyte would handle up to 3 but the ASRock and MSI can handle 4.
With exception to a server board are there any AMD boards that can handle 8 RAM slots. ASUS makes a board that does for Intel CPU's but I haven't seen one for AMD. I'd love to have 64GB RAM and run some virtual drives which by the way the ASRock does well but I'm stuck with 32GB's RAM.
Thanks Russ,
Stevo
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. December 2012 @ 10:21
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ddp
Moderator
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11. December 2012 @ 10:59 |
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russ, that coolmax psu you took apart might have been a knockoff made by somebody else like the fake rolex watches.
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AfterDawn Addict
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11. December 2012 @ 11:08 |
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Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
That's a really good price Russ and I'm sorry I miss understood you on the LLC. I just might go that route for that price, which is really cheap. I can always add a NIC for a second LAN and it would be nice to have the 8 SATA's.
I've seen PSU's flame out but that doesn't mean it takes your whole system down, unless you add-in drapes with the deal. LOL And like I said it is extremely rare for a PSU to flame out, I've only seen it a few times and we are talking over many years and thousands and thousands of PC's. I know what you mean about CoolMax I too won't buy another one and they are extremely cheaply built but I've never seen a Mickey Mouse heat sink like that, what a joke for sure. I also like the OCZ Fatal1ty and it is in my list of possible supplies but like Jeff I'm thinking about a 700w as I may load this build up with lots of drives and possibly three to four video cards. The Gigabyte would handle up to 3 but the ASRock and MSI can handle 4.
With exception to a server board are there any AMD boards that can handle 8 RAM slots. ASUS makes a board that does for Intel CPU's but I haven't seen one for AMD. I'd love to have 64GB RAM and run some virtual drives which by the way the ASRock does well but I'm stuck with 32GB's RAM.
Thanks Russ,
Stevo
Stevo,
Today must be your lucky day! LOL!! 750W OCZ Fatal1ty, modular. I'm not a big fan of fully modular, as sooner or later the ATX cable connection at the PSU seems to break down a lot, as they age. I prefer semi-modular myself.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817341041
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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11. December 2012 @ 11:42 |
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I agree with you on the modular supplies and that is why I was looking at the Fatal1ty and others I've mentioned.
Thanks again,
Stevo
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11. December 2012 @ 12:12 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
russ, that coolmax psu you took apart might have been a knockoff made by somebody else like the fake rolex watches.
ddp,
Really? I never heard of that before. The one I took apart, came from TigerDirect, so I am surprised. I found the 12v and 5v fused together. Looks like the insulation on the 12v melted, and then melted through the 5v line. Like many here I used to buy cheap PSUs, and just like many others, I learned my lesson the hard way, although all it cost me was an ODD. Remember the 1 year replacement warranty at Neweeg? I had 3 days left on the warranty. Newegg replaced it! I've seen many others that weren't so lucky.
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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ddp
Moderator
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11. December 2012 @ 12:18 |
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if they can make fake parts for airliners & military equipment then they can make fake psu's.
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