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The New AMD Building Thread
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24. December 2008 @ 05:02 |
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Originally posted by spamual:
i think it came out for the low powered x2 CPUs they released to capture the HTPC and low end oem market, which they did :).
sorry for the AM2 chipset, i meant both AM2 and + because im sure alot of AM2 users will be upgrading from K8 x2s and they will want to OC, but without an AM2+ mobo it wont be too much of an OC.
and as to i7 and DDR3, you could go and get a P45 or X48 and DDR3, also after seeing lots of benches, latency is not much of an issue, cas 9 is fine, hell even 1333MHz DDR3 with cas9 will be fine, its not like the performance drop is significant if there, vs 1333MHz cas 7.
the thing is though, why have a plan of failing for a while and then bringing out something big?
I think AMD got caught with it's pants down with Core 2. I don't think they had a clue as to how good they were going to be. I don't think AMD planned to fail, it's just they had no choice at the time. They couldn't very well just quit! Remember too, successes and Failures seem to come in bunches. AMD didn't seem to have very much in the way of success until after the Barcelona. Even then things were very luke-warm for quite a while. Let's face it, the Phenoms were nothing to brag about, yet the Phenom II is built on the same architecture, but reduced to 45nm and is much faster, more powerful and much more overclockable than any AMD chip ever seen before, and it's going to bet even better. The big question is when? My sources tell me that HKMG will be early. Wouldn't it be something if they were ready, just waiting for Jan. 8. That would be something to see! Still, the facts point to something just like that to happen. I sure don't think it was an accident that the 780G chipset gave socket AM2 owners a 15 to 20% boost in performance, which strangely enough gave the Phenom II about the same boost over previous Phenoms. Another 20% from HKMG and we are right at that 40% Sam mentioned. Another plus is that the 780/790 chipsets will have some time for the bios to mature so that when HKMG does hit, the MBs will be ready and seasoned for them.
You said:"why have a plan of failing for a while and then bringing out something big"? My best guess is with what I've been seeing for months with all these seemingly little things coming together the way they have. The chipsets and the instant performance boost for AM2 owners, the current Phenom II all of a sudden making a big splash, being able to natively use both DDR2 and DDR3, AM3 being backward compatible to AM2+ and even some AM2s. All of this backwards compatibility leaves a large choice of combination's of performance levels available to the customers, mostly in the Server Market. With hundreds of millions of dollars at stake or more, I think AMD is in the best position possible to win that market, and I think they are going to try to do just that! Core i7 while fast, just isn't cost effective with the horrible economy we have now. The Yorkfields can compete for speed, but they won't be able to compete in terms of watts consumed for very long. For once the old joke about AMD and NegaWatts isn't such a joke anymore! There the big edge has to go to AMD as the MKMG Transistors consume 30-40% less power than the ones Intel uses in it's chips, and they are an AMD exclusive, developed by Ati/IBM. If somebody wants them they will have to develop their own or hire someone to do it for them from scratch, as they have both US and International Patents. It just seems to me that the timing would be perfect if the "Real" Phenom II stood up on Jan. 8! That's how I would do it if I ran AMD, and Jan. 8 would have been my target to drop the big bomb. The thought of the possibility of that happening has been nagging at me for a month now! Must be my "Devious Mind" at work again. Still, if that was to happen then the Server chips would also have to come out the same day as well! That would be Da Bomb to end all Bombs! Gotta think that one over! LOL!!
On the latency, it's still lost clock cycles. If I was going to build one it would be Cas 6. No point in spending that kind of money and not put in the very best! Not when I can get 6GB (3x2GB) of Cas 6 running at 6-6-6-24 for under $300. The difference between Cas 9 and Cas 6 is very noticible, very much like moving up to the Cas 5 1066 Dominators from the Cas 4 800MHz G.Skill I had before in appearence. A much fatter memory bandwidth too! Even some overclocking with looser timings. I'm supposed to build two Core i7 965s in the very near future, and she wants the very best cutting edge goodies. I'm just waiting for the money to get here. She's an old customer I've taken care of for years, so it shouldn't be too long!
Happy Holidays,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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spamual
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24. December 2008 @ 05:09 |
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mmm, i dont think i had ANY difference moving from 555 15 800 to 555 15 1066....
bar the tiny difference in benchmarks....lool
why not release the phantom II with the HKMG?
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24. December 2008 @ 06:05 |
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Originally posted by spamual:
mmm, i dont think i had ANY difference moving from 555 15 800 to 555 15 1066....
bar the tiny difference in benchmarks....lool
why not release the phantom II with the HKMG?
Supposedly they are not ready yet, still in testing or some garbage like that. maybe attract more interest! I don't know! Jan. 8, 2009 would be good for me! ROFLMAO!!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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24. December 2008 @ 10:29 |
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Russ
You guys really have to shorten your posts a bit or no one new coming to this thread is going to make an attempt to follow it.
I've learned to never count either chipset manufacturer out. When one finds a technology that surpasses the other, the other doesn't just give up they head for the drawing board.
AMD ran Intel into the ground for several years before Intel finall saw a need to catch up. What took Intel so long to do it? Simple! Intel controlled the market by the use of unfair business practices to prevent AMD from entering into certain markets. As long as Intel had PC manufacturers such as Dell in their pocket they had no need to improve the quality of their processors. Once companies like Dell began building AMD rigs because of their processors superior processor performance Intel awakened.
Much of the i7's architecture was borrowed from ideas taken from AMD. The on onboard memory controller is a great example which eliminated the FSB. AMD also developed the first true quad core well in advance of the i7 while Intel stacked two dual cores on a single die to get a quad core processor to market. Remember everyone figured that Nvidia had finally buried ATI and then along came the 4000 series which didn't attempt to take on Nvidia's GTX280. ATI chose instead to blow away Nvidia's low high end and down GPUs which is where most of the market is.
Right now AMD is still doing quite well in the server market because of its architecture and will continue to do so until i7 finally unseats it. By then AMD could have a new offering that will compete with the i7. Rumor mills suggests that AMD has an ace up their sleeves. I say it's time for a little competition to get things moving again.
Quote:
Right now, it is clear that the latest AMD Opteron is in the lead. We are really at the pivotal moment in time. No matter how good the current Xeon "Harpertown" and "Dunnington" architectures are, they lose too many battles due to the platform they are running on. The FSB architecture is singing its swan song. Only a small part of the market, namely:
* The ERP people who don't care about power, but who need the highest performance at any cost
* The HPC people who have extremely intensive code which does not work on sparse matrices
* The people who render
?can ignore the shortcomings of the FSB-based platform.
http://it.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.aspx?i=3484&p=13
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24. December 2008 @ 11:32 |
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3Ghz to 3.85Ghz is better than AMD's previous efforts, but hardly 'like crazy'. Intel's Core 2 Quads have managed 2.66 to 3.85. You will notice that while HKMG may have allowed Intel to run at 45nm architecture, it did not mean their chips overclocked any better than before. The 2.4Ghz 65nm Core 2 Quads overclocked to 3.8Ghz on their best stepping, nearly 60%, AMD haven't even reached 30%. You could argue that at least AMD have reached the same clock speed as Intel, but that's not really relevant when a 3Ghz AMD is beaten by a 2.5Ghz Intel.
As much as you're certain HKMG is going to give AMD a vast performance gain, I just don't see it, I think there's more to Intel's die-shrink than HKMG alone, and the whole orchestra gave them barely 10% higher performance per mhz, and a 10% higher initial clock speed, with no increases in % overclock, decreases in fact.
i7, certainly initially seemed a waste, and to gamers it still does. To video encoders though, the i7 920 is $300, you don't need to spend megabucks to buy i7 boards and RAM these days, a lot more than 775 I grant you, but considering you're getting pretty much double the performance of AMD's best Phenom II, that's worth paying for.
Originally posted by theonejrs:
yet the Phenom II is built on the same architecture, but reduced to 45nm and is much faster, more powerful and much more overclockable than any AMD chip ever seen before, and it's going to bet even better.
Oh come on now, straight from the mouth of AMD. More faster and More powerful not meaning the same thing? 'much faster?' The 9850 barely matched the Q6600, the 9950 barely beat it, the Phenom II 940 is still going to barely beat it.
Originally posted by spamual:
the thing is though, why have a plan of failing for a while and then bringing out something big?
- Pentium D and Core 2 Duo anyone?
The i7 is a somewhat intelligent design step, but half of it is just strapping all the addons they needed to get P4 to perform properly to a Quad core architecture. AMD's genuine quad core approach was far more sophisticated from a design perspective, but just shoving two Core 2 Duos on the same chip seemed to work pretty well anyway.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. December 2008 @ 11:37
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24. December 2008 @ 15:21 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
Oh come on now, straight from the mouth of AMD. More faster and More powerful not meaning the same thing? 'much faster?' The 9850 barely matched the Q6600, the 9950 barely beat it, the Phenom II 940 is still going to barely beat it.
It matters not what the 9850 can do as the reference was to the coming 45nm Phenom II. It was also a comparison of Phenom II to existing AMD processors, not Intel. It says "much more overclockable than any AMD chip ever seen"!
Quote:
As much as you're certain HKMG is going to give AMD a vast performance gain, I just don't see it, I think there's more to Intel's die-shrink than HKMG alone, and the whole orchestra gave them barely 10% higher performance per mhz, and a 10% higher initial clock speed, with no increases in % overclock, decreases in fact.
HKMG was also a " necessary work around" for Intel, and not even part of the original design, and as you pointed out, didn't do a lot for the performance. To me it was a little like putting the supercharger in the trunk rather than under the hood! It's remarkable that the Phenom II does as well as it does without HKMG. Remember also that the "almost 4GHz" was done without a particularly decent cooler, barely more than the stock heatpipe cooler that comes with it. HKMG properly implemented into the design should yield about a 20% improvement in the amount of work the processor should be able to do for any given clock speed.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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24. December 2008 @ 17:17 |
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Hmm, I don't think 4Ghz on air is passable, for the main reason that AMD could only get 4.4Ghz on Phase.
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AfterDawn Addict
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24. December 2008 @ 18:01 |
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Sam
Shouldn't you be in bed for fear that Santa will see you up and leave you pickles?
What the heck are you guys debating over? Both have their merits.
Merry Christmas Sam although I know that the hour has already passed and merry Christmas Russ. Now stop this you are boring me to death!!!
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
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24. December 2008 @ 18:03 |
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Actually no, 58 minutes to go :)
It might seem petty, but Russ still seems to think Phenom II will be the best thing since sliced bread. I'm just not quite that optimistic :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. December 2008 @ 18:03
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24. December 2008 @ 18:15 |
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Quote:
It might seem petty, but Russ still seems to think Phenom II will be the best thing since sliced bread.
58 minutes isn't a long time to go into a coma for fear of surprising Santa!
Nothing is better than sliced bread, just ask the Earl of Sandwich!
Both formats have unique attributes and sometimes one rises to the top like butter in cream. I can show you posts where you and I both were on the AMD wagon going west. It's sensible to be fickle when it comes to a brand of technology, we buy them, not marry them.LOL
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
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24. December 2008 @ 18:32 |
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Originally posted by Sophocles:
Sam
Shouldn't you be in bed for fear that Santa will see you up and leave you pickles?
What the heck are you guys debating over? Both have their merits.
Merry Christmas Sam although I know that the hour has already passed and merry Christmas Russ. Now stop this you are boring me to death!!!
Sophocles,
I agree with you 100% We have beaten the technology to death. Now it's time to stop the educated speculation and see what actually comes out Jan. 8! AMD has thoroughly glossed over the improvements made between what we've seen tests of, and the final product. It should be a good step forward for AMD!
BTW, I don't know where you are at the moment. Did you borrow my Spaceship? :) I've got 8 hours and 45 minutes to go before Christmas! LOL!!
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to You and Yours,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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spamual
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24. December 2008 @ 18:32 |
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but if were not arguing abotu something, its just not aD :D
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24. December 2008 @ 18:42 |
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Quote:
BTW, I don't know where you are at the moment. Did you borrow my Spaceship? :) I've got 8 hours and 45 minutes to go before Christmas! LOL!!
I'm juxtaposed in England with Sam which is 5 hours ahead of my time, and 8 hours ahead your time. In only a matter of minutes Sam will be feeding Santa cookies and milk and shrieking with the joy that comes out of youth with or without gifts.
Although the sun has set here in Florida, it's a disgustingly 82 degrees outside. Sigh! I guess I'll have to live with it.;P
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
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24. December 2008 @ 18:42 |
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Originally posted by spamual:
but if were not arguing abotu something, its just not aD :D
How True! But we spend to much time and space discussing our various arguments over and over again. All we can do is wait and see what happens anyway. It will B what it will B, when it will B, Plain and simple!
Happy Holidays,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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24. December 2008 @ 19:09 |
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Someone had inquired a while back about what kind of CPU coolers come with the better AMDs. Here's a picture of the one that comes with a 64x2 45w 4850e.
Looks to be a 2 pipe cooler to me. Decent enough for a stock cooler!
Happy Holidays To All,
Russ
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AfterDawn Addict
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24. December 2008 @ 20:51 |
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Better than the heaps of crap Intel give you... :S
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spamual
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24. December 2008 @ 21:27 |
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not a heatpipe in site for a Q9550, infact a cooelr the same size for a Q9550 as an E2140.....
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24. December 2008 @ 21:31 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Better than the heaps of crap Intel give you... :S
It looks just like the one they used to get to 3.93GHz with the Phenom II! Pretty decent for a stock cooler. Very low profile too! It might be pretty good for the Media center PC I want to build with either an AMD x2 4850e or a 5050e in this case.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811129034
Merry Christmas Sam,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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24. December 2008 @ 21:39 |
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Originally posted by spamual:
not a heatpipe in site for a Q9550, infact a cooelr the same size for a Q9550 as an E2140.....
If you look at them closely, while they all look pretty much alike, some of them have more copper than others. I have 3 here at the moment and all look the same on the outside but just bigger chunks of copper in the middle.
Merry Christmas Shaff,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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spamual
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24. December 2008 @ 22:03 |
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might be so, though its like 2cm high though, tiny things lool. merry xmas to you to russ :D
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rick5446
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25. December 2008 @ 04:07 |
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Sophocles..I'm in Florida 2...I'd rather B hear then in my home town of London, Canada..My Uncle informed me they had 6" of snow over night, he's gotta get up an hour earlier just 2 shovel his driveway
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25. December 2008 @ 05:53 |
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That's right, my Q9550 came with more copper in the middle, but the actual heatsink was half as high.
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26. December 2008 @ 16:23 |
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For those that missed it, this was in the PC Building thread. A head to head matchup between Phenom II, and the current Intel Quads.
http://translate.google.com/translate?hl...x.gr/%26hl%3Den
I'm assuming that this has to be from the CPUs that are being released in less than two weeks, as the Phenom II performs better than previous Phenom IIs. Much better than I expected!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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26. December 2008 @ 17:25 |
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Quote:
Sophocles..I'm in Florida 2...I'd rather B hear then in my home town of London, Canada.
You do know of course that I used to live in London Ontario Also? that was about 20 years ago but I truly loved London, the cold, the snow, and Fanshawe Park.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. December 2008 @ 17:26
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. December 2008 @ 18:09 |
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Originally posted by Sophocles:
Quote:
Sophocles..I'm in Florida 2...I'd rather B hear then in my home town of London, Canada.
You do know of course that I used to live in London Ontario Also? that was about 20 years ago but I truly loved London, the cold, the snow, and Fanshawe Park.
that's quite a coincidence. are you sure you don't know each other?
I hope everybody had a good christmas and has a happy new year.
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
