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MMDS Set-up Complete Beginner
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Jimme
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6. November 2008 @ 08:43 |
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Originally posted by satguy99:
what is the distance from the top of the highest wall bracket to the aerial, which i presume is at the top of the pole
I guess it is about 12 feet. Other than stability, why would this matter? Thanks
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satguy99
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 08:43 |
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if it any more than 8ft then it will sway too much and give you the issues you are having
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ftm2008
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 08:56 |
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just a quick note: as of last week i seem to be able to get the EPG for the entire night instead of now and next which i had all along - past 8 months... i didnt do anything extra the only thing i can think of is i did a rescan and a channel called guide came in and i didn't delete it as i previously did. dunno if this is related.
has anyone else noticed this recently or has the Epg been there all along??
BTW im on c****s M**s
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Jimme
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6. November 2008 @ 08:58 |
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Originally posted by satguy99:
if it any more than 8ft then it will sway too much and give you the issues you are having
I have 4 wires attached to the top of the pole. These are then pinned to the roof at different locations. The antenna appears to be as stable (or more stable) than many of my neighbours. Even on days when there is NO wind, there is some interference.
Is it possible that the trees I can see in the distance are causing problems. Would a stronger antenna fix this or would the interference still be too bad? Thanks
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Fano
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6. November 2008 @ 12:35 |
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I dont think a larger grid will make much of a difference,24db is already quite large.
A 27db grid is 1m in diameter.Huge.
How high is the ber on the channels ?
Are you splitting the signal ,that will reduce the signal slightly ?
Are you using good cabling ,RG6 or better ?
How tall are the trees in the distance ?
The signal from beam benders is pretty poor compared to a main transmitter.
I have a 24db grid pointing through a huge bunch of trees,well over 90ft tall and I have a steady signal.
Chorus told me it wasnt possible to get a signal there,ha ha .
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yammagamm
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6. November 2008 @ 14:00 |
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guys when was the last time the keys for ch@r2s mmds limerick were updated and is the prov id 005e01 ??
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satguy99
Junior Member
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6. November 2008 @ 14:15 |
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Originally posted by Jimme:
Originally posted by satguy99:
if it any more than 8ft then it will sway too much and give you the issues you are having
I have 4 wires attached to the top of the pole. These are then pinned to the roof at different locations. The antenna appears to be as stable (or more stable) than many of my neighbours. Even on days when there is NO wind, there is some interference.
Is it possible that the trees I can see in the distance are causing problems. Would a stronger antenna fix this or would the interference still be too bad? Thanks
I doubt the trees are the issue, how long is the cable run from the power supply to the aerial and what cable did you run
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suse103
Member
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6. November 2008 @ 15:03 |
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try a signal booster normally to ways to attach these the simplest are the ones plugged in close to the tv bought from argos for about 15 euro this way might work get the adjustable type and test it at different levels as sometimes they can just amplify degradation . the second way is to apply the booster in between the aerial and the power insert this method reduces the risk of amplifying degradation.
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Jimme
Member
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6. November 2008 @ 17:02 |
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Originally posted by Fano:
I dont think a larger grid will make much of a difference,24db is already quite large.
A 27db grid is 1m in diameter.Huge.
Maybe not a 27db grid, but would getting a 24db grid improve my signal compared to that recieved by a standard ch0ru$ grid?
Originally posted by Fano:
How high is the ber on the channels ?
Not sure what is meant by ber. When doing a manual scan on my eurovox-tx the level meter reads between 80 and 85 percent. The quality meter reads between 48 and 55 percent. But the quality can jump up and down.
Originally posted by Fano:
Are you splitting the signal ,that will reduce the signal slightly ?
No, the downconverter is directly connected to the power inserter. The output from the power inserter is then connected directly via a short cable to my eurovox tx.
Originally posted by Fano:
Are you using good cabling ,RG6 or better ?
The roll of cable reads: 1.00MM conductor, 75OHM, RG6. So I think it should be ok.
Originally posted by Fano:
How tall are the trees in the distance ?
There at about the height of the ariel, but its hard to say. They may not be the problem, but then again they could be!
Originally posted by Fano:
The signal from beam benders is pretty poor compared to a main transmitter.
I'm about 12 or 13 miles from the beam bender/transmitter by Cork Airport. But my neighbours seem to be picking up channels ok.
Originally posted by Fano:
I have a 24db grid pointing through a huge bunch of trees,well over 90ft tall and I have a steady signal.
Chorus told me it wasnt possible to get a signal there,ha ha .
I assume you got the 24db grid because a standard install wasnt sufficient? Was your problem similar to mine? In other words, do you think I should try a 24db grid or am I just wasting my time?
Thanks a million for all the advice. Its very helpful.
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Fano
Member
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6. November 2008 @ 18:20 |
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Ber is Bit error rate,its used on Dreamboxes ,it measures the noise on the signal,the lower the better.
I find that if the Ber>10,000 the signal will break up.
I'm not familiar with the sensitivity of the tuners in the Eurovox Tx .
The tuners in the 500T are quite good ,stronger than the standard Sagem chorus box.
A 24db Lance grid is better than the standard Chorus mesh grids .
http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/pics/lance-24.gif
The Chorus ones are cheaply made.
A difference of 3 dB is a doubling or halving the power. That
is a bit deceptive though. A difference of 3 dB is not noticeable at all,unless it is on the fringe of the signal threshold. In which case you would need to significantly increase the gain, i.e., from say a +3 to a +9 or better, in order to have a stable signal.
In most cases, you either get the signal or you don't.
Either it is way down in the dirt or there is plenty of signal.
Its prob worth a shot allright.
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Jimme
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7. November 2008 @ 04:53 |
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Originally posted by Fano:
Ber is Bit error rate,its used on Dreamboxes ,it measures the noise on the signal,the lower the better.
I find that if the Ber>10,000 the signal will break up.
I'm not familiar with the sensitivity of the tuners in the Eurovox Tx .
The tuners in the 500T are quite good ,stronger than the standard Sagem chorus box.
I can try to get a loan of an original dreambox 600T from a friend to check the BER. I assume the tuner on the 600T is as good as that on the 500T.
Originally posted by Fano:
A 24db Lance grid is better than the standard Chorus mesh grids .
http://www.qsl.net/n9zia/wireless/pics/lance-24.gif
The Chorus ones are cheaply made.
Maybe a stupid question, but what is the gain on a standard ch0ru$ mesh? In other words, if I move to a 24 db lance grid am I simply improving the quality of the grid or am I getting extra "gain"?
Originally posted by Fano:
A difference of 3 dB is a doubling or halving the power. That is a bit deceptive though. A difference of 3 dB is not noticeable at all,unless it is on the fringe of the signal threshold. In which case you would need to significantly increase the gain, i.e., from say a +3 to a +9 or better, in order to have a stable signal.
In most cases, you either get the signal or you don't.
Either it is way down in the dirt or there is plenty of signal.
Its prob worth a shot allright.
Well, I get a signal, but it comes and goes. Steady for 20 to 30 seconds - then all pixelated. Would this be an indication that I'm at the fringe of the signal threshold? I can source a 21 dB gain or 27dB gain ariel from sat&cable. Which would you recommend. Again, thanks so much for all the help.
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suse103
Member
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7. November 2008 @ 09:30 |
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Hi ,
I wouldn't just yet go buying an new aerial .Try a booster and if your still getting the problem maybe just adjust the aerial direction it could be out just a fraction.
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Jimme
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7. November 2008 @ 10:14 |
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Originally posted by suse103:
I wouldn't just yet go buying an new aerial. Try a booster
The distance between the power inserter and my box is only 3 feet, so I assume it would be pointless putting a booster in there.
Im no expert, but I would be slow to insert a booster between the downconverter and power inserter. The cable is carrying a signal in 1 direction and power in the other direction. Aren't most boosters one-way amplification? Have you done this yourself or is it just an idea?
Originally posted by suse103:
if your still getting the problem maybe just adjust the aerial direction it could be out just a fraction.
How precise does the direction have to be? I have tweaked it so many times now and still have had no luck. The highest signal strenght I have got on my eurovox-tx are:
level: 85%
quality: 55%
Do these seem ok? Do I need to reach a certain percentage in either of these for a steady picture?
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mgb17
Senior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 12:37 |
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A booster simply amplify the signal and should be placed between power inserter and TV.
Maybe a booster can help in your situation, maybe not.
If you can get an good one its worth a try.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. November 2008 @ 12:39
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suse103
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7. November 2008 @ 14:39 |
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A "booster" amplifies both signal and noise. But it also adds its own electrical noise, so the end result is always a worse "signal to noise ratio". That may not matter, provided that the original signal had minimal noise to begin with. But a noisy signal will be even more noisy.
The best place to boost a TV signal is near to the aerial because the coaxial cable picks up noise on the way down. The signal is "cleanest" near the aerial.Hence if its traveled a long way and then you place into a booster it will amplify any noise its picked up
But as said before the quickest and cheapest way i'd proceed would be to by an adjustable amplifier , place it close to the tv and tweak the level up or down and i think this may work for you. If it doesnt then place it close to the aerial where i suggested and if that doesn't work its a matter of adjusting alignment and or attempting to capturing more microwaves and reflecting them correctly on to the dipole by using differing antenna shapes .
I hope the simple booster works for you
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wiseguy25
Newbie
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7. November 2008 @ 15:17 |
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Originally posted by Jimme:
Originally posted by Fano:
You have partial line of sight ,not enough judging from the symptoms you have described.
I had the same problem myself when there were trees blocking my line.
I could get the low freq channels but the higher end ones ,especially those with alot of channels on a single transponder,were unstable.
I had to use a larger grid and optimise the location of the grid.
Im back again! Ive increased the height of my antenna (at least as high as the neighbours a few doors down). And through a lot of work Ive also made it that bit more stable. The reception has improved, but it is far from tolerable. I often get 10 to 20 seconds of good reception. Then, as I get my hopes up it gets all pixelated for the next 10 seconds. Then the cycle starts again. Its very frustrating.
There are some trees in the distance. Maybe they are interfering when it gets a bit windy. Is there anything I can do? After 3 months of moving the antenna, changing downconverters and trying different frequencies - I'm out of ideas and almost ready to give up :(
The only other thing I can think of is getting a stronger antenna. The one I have is a standard Ch0ru$ antenna with a SatAndCable downconverter attached. Would purchasing a 27dB Gain Antenna get a steady reception or would it just be a waste of time and money.
Really appreciate all the advice. Thanks.
Hi Jimme,
I had a the exact same thing happining to me,
turned out the power insiter i was using was only putting out 100mA bought one of the ones from s&c with 350mA output and bingo worked perfect ever since...
Hope this helped...
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mgb17
Senior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 15:23 |
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Originally posted by suse103:
A "booster" amplifies both signal and noise. But it also adds its own electrical noise, so the end result is always a worse "signal to noise ratio". That may not matter, provided that the original signal had minimal noise to begin with. But a noisy signal will be even more noisy.
The best place to boost a TV signal is near to the aerial because the coaxial cable picks up noise on the way down. The signal is "cleanest" near the aerial.Hence if its traveled a long way and then you place into a booster it will amplify any noise its picked up
But as said before the quickest and cheapest way i'd proceed would be to by an adjustable amplifier , place it close to the tv and tweak the level up or down and i think this may work for you. If it doesnt then place it close to the aerial where i suggested and if that doesn't work its a matter of adjusting alignment and or attempting to capturing more microwaves and reflecting them correctly on to the dipole by using differing antenna shapes .
I hope the simple booster works for you
The line between psu and downconverter carry the electrical power for the downconverter.
Its not a good idea to break that connection with a booster.
Btw ground noice will be always amplified from a booster and if there is a good cable in use there is not much chance for picking up additional noise. The noise generated from the booster will be always added independently where the booster is placed.
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Jimme
Member
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7. November 2008 @ 15:54 |
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Originally posted by wiseguy25:
I had a the exact same thing happining to me,
turned out the power insiter i was using was only putting out 100mA bought one of the ones from s&c with 350mA output and bingo worked perfect ever since...
Thanks wiseguy,
The power inserter I'm using came from Sat&Cable. It reads Output: DC 18V 0.3A
So I guess thats not the prob :(
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Jimme
Member
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7. November 2008 @ 16:00 |
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Originally posted by mgb17:
A booster simply amplify the signal and should be placed between power inserter and TV.
Maybe a booster can help in your situation, maybe not.
If you can get an good one its worth a try.
I'll buy a booster tomorrow and give it a go. But as I say the length of cable from the power inserter to the eurovox-tx is only about 3 feet. My understanding was that a booster is designed to amplify a signal over a long length of cable. So I would guess that it will not help me.
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suse103
Member
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7. November 2008 @ 16:46 |
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best of luck and hope it works
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mgb17
Senior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 16:53 |
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@Jimme
A amplifyer simply higher the signal strength. If you place an booster at the beginning of a cable run you will get a higher end result because every meter cable eat up signal strength. If you use a good cable there is not so much difference for normal distances if you place the booster at the end.
Your problem could be that the signal strength is near the border between good and bad and a boost could bring the signal into a range your tuner can handle without problems.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. November 2008 @ 16:55
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Fano
Member
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7. November 2008 @ 17:54 |
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The Lance 24db grids are very good.
I dont know the exact gain of the Chorus grids ,they vary in size and gain.
Do you have a mesh type grid ?
If you connect the 600T it will tell you alot .
On a dreambox the signal strength should be around 98-99% for a good signal.
BER should ideally be 0 but as long as its <10k it should be stable.
I've seen a few faulty downconverters (Panorama) where the snr drops like you describe every 30 secs or so for a few secs .It could be faulty.What make is it ?
I'm unsure if a booster will make any difference but its prob worth a shot.
The Konig yellow brick booster is supposed to be very good but it might be too strong ,MGB would know better.
Keep at it.
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glog
Junior Member
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7. November 2008 @ 18:19 |
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Hi Jimme,
I see you are in Cork.Whereabouts ? If you want i may be able to lend you one of the YAGI Integrated aerials, as sold by most of the web sites. I have found them very good, despite the fact that they are not particularly well built.
In fact, for my own install one of these aerials is getting me quality reading of ~75% from a transmitter 30 miles away.From my experience a quality reading of ~ 60% would be sufficient to give you a steady picture.
PM me if you want.
gLog
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Jimme
Member
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8. November 2008 @ 15:47 |
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Originally posted by mgb17:
Your problem could be that the signal strength is near the border between good and bad and a boost could bring the signal into a range your tuner can handle without problems.
Just tried an adjustable amplifier/booster between the power inserter and box. No luck :( The level and quality bars didn't move at all.
What is the maximum recommended length of cable from the downconverter to the power inserter? Maybe thats my problem, but I don't want to go breaking the cable unless it might help. Thanks
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Jimme
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8. November 2008 @ 16:21 |
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Originally posted by glog:
I see you are in Cork.Whereabouts ? If you want i may be able to lend you one of the YAGI Integrated aerials, as sold by most of the web sites. I have found them very good, despite the fact that they are not particularly well built.
In fact, for my own install one of these aerials is getting me quality reading of ~75% from a transmitter 30 miles away.From my experience a quality reading of ~ 60% would be sufficient to give you a steady picture.
Thanks GLog,
Thats a very generous offer. I hadn't even considered a YAGI. I thought that a lot of people had problems with them.
Are they that good? I'm in East Cork, I recon about 12 or 13 miles from the transmitter (or beam bender). Anyone else able to confirm that have had as much success with a YAGI?
Might get a YAGI or Lance Grid. Any reasons why I should get one over the other? Thanks everyone.
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