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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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28. May 2010 @ 23:02 |
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Why not? It performs the same as DDR3 for the most part. He already had an AM2+ board so he figured "eh what's the difference?" Dropped the CPU right in and commenced OCing right away. As far as I'm concerned as well, there's no practical difference unless buying new. Why make the big platform upgrade if your current one will do the same exact thing with the older components? I mean, hell look at me. DDR2-800 on an X4. And a better OC than I've seen with 90% of original PHIIs. Granted mine is AM2+ only but still...
Yeah and on AM2+ with DDR2, he made 4GHz with just a notch above stock voltage. 30 runs passed IBT high stress level. Only topped at 52*C load with a stock CoolIt ECO.
If DDR3 would make a difference, please, show me where...
Oh yeah he does fold for a team and does video work so it's not going to waste either...
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. May 2010 @ 23:17
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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29. May 2010 @ 00:37 |
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52C with a Coolit eco? If that's true, I may not see much improvement at all. I've barely seen over that with the Tuniq tower...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 29. May 2010 @ 00:37
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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29. May 2010 @ 01:17 |
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Consider this is a 6 core at 1.5v and 4GHz. The Tuniq it replaced touched 60 frequently. It's not my build though so what can I really tell you of the fine details? All I know is that he plans to replace the fan pretty soon because the stock one is weak. I would expect he sits maybe 48-50 with a better fan. Which for that CPU is downright frozen. Also consider my Tuniq and 940 hit about 55 under IBT load. He's got two more cores and .05 more volts. I daresay that's an improvement.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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29. May 2010 @ 02:43 |
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Hmmm, so something like the Coolit Eco may be darn near necessary for 6 core CPU's overclocked. Though perhaps I would have better results, given my High airflow case ;) And soon to be better air flow :D Though airflow would only help other areas of the board. Russ's coolit is apparently doing quite well though. But it's not a 6 core behemoth. I imagine a larger heatsink, coupled with a better pump, would pull even more heat. Gonna have to get one of those coolits, and see what kind of results I can achieve.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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29. May 2010 @ 05:17 |
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Just for the record, this is the guy I got my AMD side panel from for the HAF. Yeah he has a HAF too.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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30. May 2010 @ 19:16 |
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Originally posted by red:
oh no, I vary rarely leave cover, it's the noobs that stand in front of something they should be behind (especially recons). Exposing yourself is practically asking for some one to kill you.
Oh, that makes more sense. I thought you said "stand in front of cover" whereas I would have said "stand behind cover" so I misunderstood. I was thinking "How noobie are these guys when Dirty Harry Red stands right out there in the open shooting them between the eyes!" LOL
Originally posted by estuansis:
In oldschool BF2 the scale is much larger, thus the need for a commander and skilled squad leaders or the size of the map makes everything confusing.
Sounds more like my kind of game - no kidding the "oldschool" BF2 maps are immense!! Maybe the BF guys picked up some pointers from cod4 mp with more manageable map sizes.
Originally posted by omega:
XFX seems to be the only card (That I've seen) offering a lifetime warranty. Heck, they're offering a double lifetime LOL!
Double! What's that mean, kevin, your life and when you put the graphics card in your will, also for the life of your kid ???? Hahahaha.
Quote:
I think I want the XFX 5970
Laugh all you like, but I like being set for a long time :p And XFX seems to be the only manufacturer bold enough, to offer a lifetime warranty :D
Yeah, but don't you want 4 gigs of memory on the card instead of the 2gigs in your link? I know it's more important to have the memory at higher resolutions than 1920x1200, but you might eventually, (cheap or not LOL) spring for a 2560x1600 monitor one day.
Jeff I just read some reviews on the coolit - and it sounds pretty good for very little money - however just a tad noisy with that 1800 rpm 120mm fan. Your friend who has the coolit has a HAF you mentioned - as does Sam and Kevin. AFAIK the HAF is set up to put a radiator next to one of the big 240 mm fans - is that right - is that where your friend put the radiator?
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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30. May 2010 @ 19:57 |
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Yah, one day I will DEFINITELY have the higher resolution monitors. They're just so damned expensive at present. Not to mention the 4gb 5970. The sapphire alone is pushing 1,000$. I don't know when I'll have those kind of funds LOL! Definitely one day though ;) Too bad I can't sell my soul :p
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. May 2010 @ 20:01 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Yah, one day I will DEFINITELY have the higher resolution monitors. They're just so damned expensive at present. Not to mention the 4gb 5970. The sapphire alone is pushing 1,000$. I don't know when I'll have those kind of funds LOL! Definitely one day though ;) Too bad I can't sell my soul :p
watch supernatural (tv program) you wouldnt want to sell you soul
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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30. May 2010 @ 20:12 |
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Jeff: Nah you're probably right, AMD CPUs are more about the latencies than the raw memory speed, so there's not much to gain from DDR3 anyway.
After seeing the 4GB 5970 top $1100 that's a bit too much, it would work out far less for me to buy two Eyefinity6 cards, so I'll probably do that.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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30. May 2010 @ 20:13 |
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Originally posted by shaff:
watch supernatural (tv program) you wouldnt want to sell you soul
Yeah, I saw a couple of episodes - that one interesting British guy named Conway or something - he's really a demon of some type but an enemy of Lucifer and he wants to help the two brothers put Lucifer back in some type of confinement. I saw two episodes - my HD non-connoisseur brother is a big fan. The last one I saw, he tells this one guy to let him have the guy's soul - but just for a bit - then he'll give it right back! What happened then Shaff - did the guy regret giving his soul to Conway?
Kevin wouldn't regret it - he'd have his 30", and the 4 gig 5970 to drive it! All for only $2500 and the temporary loan of his soul!
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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30. May 2010 @ 20:23 |
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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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30. May 2010 @ 20:26 |
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I'll be honest, 2GB per GPU at 1920x1200 is still a bit of waste. 1.5 is actually sufficient for 2560x1600 even with 4xAA, for now.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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30. May 2010 @ 20:47 |
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so you think that 2gb at 2560 x 1600 is enough?
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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30. May 2010 @ 21:14 |
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Hmmmm - so sam says 2 gigs is plenty per gpu for 2560x1600 even with 4xaa - nice to know. Your $389 2 gig 5850 looks pretty good kevin.
Say guys, I should know this, but I don't, is the 5850 significantly less powerful than the 5870, or is it just a matter of the clocks, and can it be oc'd to equal 5870?
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AfterDawn Addict
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30. May 2010 @ 21:24 |
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yep, the 5850s are BEAST overclockers, that do get to 5870 FPS. but the 5870s are beasts aswell for OCing. and then there is the whole extra heat thing.
been looking at the prices of the 5 sereis, and i gotta saqy the 5830 at liek £165 seems a steal now. compete U turn from what i was saying before. and what makes it better is that its a BEAST ocer once again and is quiet alot less than the 5850s price. surely thr 5850 should drop. heres hoping the GTX265 makes it drop, but i doubt it seeing as it doesnt even hit 5850s speeds, jsut above the GTX275 infact.
and hwo is it ATI can drop the prices of the 5830 so much yet increace the 5850 :(
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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30. May 2010 @ 21:36 |
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Originally posted by harvrdguy:
Double! What's that mean, kevin, your life and when you put the graphics card in your will, also for the life of your kid ???? Hahahaha.
Rich
I believe it means that if you're the second person to buy that card you also get a lifetime warranty.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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30. May 2010 @ 22:52 |
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Quote:
I believe it means that if you're the second person to buy that card you also get a lifetime warranty.
Haha. Now THAT makes a lot more sense than what I was thinking! :D
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. May 2010 @ 07:08 |
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2GB per GPU at 2560x1600 is plenty for now. Any game that needs more than 2GB is likely to need more performance than an HD5 series GPU setup can offer, since that'd be at least 40% more memory than a current title (and 40% more memory implies much more than 40% more demand off the GPU)
The HD5850 is lacking in processing cores compared to the 5870, in addition to the reduced clock speed, but it doesn't have that much of an impact on performance. An HD5850 clocked to 5870 speeds isn't very far behind at all. I imagine perhaps that's something that will only show up with newer titles once the cards get a bit older.
The HD5830's stable price (i.e. the price at which cards can regularly be found) is about £180-£190 at the moment. This makes it a good deal, especially when you use the performance figures shown from less biased benchmarks. What is interesting is that the site that showed the HD5830 in the most positive light (and the performance area I would expect from its original price) shows a considerable bias in favour of the GTX400 series, with the highest performance of all the sites I've seen shown. (GameGPU).
Ultimately the HD5830 is a 'cheap through inefficiency' card. It performs quite well for the price it's offered at, but it's bigger and more power hungry than its performance should really suggest. For that reason I'm glad its price has been cut more substantially below the £200 mark.
As for the increasing price of the HD5850, it's such an amazing card compared to the competition, sales are still very high even at its new price, UK retailers are regularly selling out of the big brands, even though supply at least is no longer a major issue.
The GTX470, when you believe the more realistic benchmarks, does not best the HD5850 by any substantial margin, yet it still costs at least £280 for the cheapest brands. Any price premium at all, given the drawbacks of the GTX400 architecture, is still unacceptable in my opinion.
The GTX465 doesn't look like it's going to do much to alter the market position, it will surely sit in the same position as the HD5830 for excess power, reduced performance, but as to how much it will cost for its performance output, will be interesting to see. Given the choice of the name GTX465 over 460 or 455, it shouldn't in theory be much different to a 470 in performance (indeed, the card is identical to a 470, just a little crippled), whereas the 5830 is quite a substantial reduction from the 5850.
Were nvidia to get this right, it may well redeem the GTX400 architecture, as it is common knowledge that the bulk of graphics card sales are in the lower-end sector, hence why nvidia are still around, they're standing on the success of their older architectures for their cheaper products :P
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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31. May 2010 @ 20:30 |
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Wow, nice analysis Sam, as always.
So while the 5850 is lacking in processing cores, 1440 compared to 1600 for the 5870 (10% less) performance for today's games doesn't seem to suffer much at all. That's very interesting. But the 5830, on the other hand, with 1120 (30% less than 5870) processing cores, is significantly less powerful, but at the same time, an energy hog.
So it looks like the 5850 that Kevin linked to in post 6161 above, at $389, is indeed a really good value. I see the cheapest newegg 2 gig 5870 at $519.
So comparing 5850 to 5870, both at 2 gigs, we're looking at 90% of the processing cores, which at equal clocks doesn't seem to make much difference in performance on today's games, like what - maybe 95-97% of the performance? - at only 75% of the cost.
And Jeff and Red both can vouch for the effectiveness of crossfire on the 1 gig 5850!
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. May 2010 @ 20:34 |
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Don't forget the 5850 uses lower clocks, 725/4000 vs 850/4800. A 5970 2GB shares the 725/4000 clocks of a 5850, despite using the full 1600 shader cores of the 5870. Meanwhile the 5970 4GB uses 900/4800, but is 70% more expensive than the standard 5970 2GB.
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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31. May 2010 @ 21:45 |
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Actually I haven't gotten around to being able to afford a second 5850 yet. Spent that money on my WC stuff.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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31. May 2010 @ 21:57 |
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Red, what!!!!!!!!! (I should talk, lol)
Wow, 70% more for 4 gigs versus 2. But with raised clocks.
So might some of that be for the extra heavy-duty cooling? Or is it just a big premium for the rabid gamers with money to burn? Anyway, that's bound to come down, don't you think?
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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31. May 2010 @ 22:15 |
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As I'm sure some of you have gathered, I'm no genius. At least not anymore :p
So crossfire could be asking for more trouble than its worth. At least with a 5970, 2 Gpu's have been innerXfired if you will ;) It makes most softwares/Os's believe that its one SUPER Gpu :D Correct me if I'm wrong on this sam. As I'm sure you will LOL!
And besides that, I believe that a 5970 takes less power, than 2 5850's. I don't wanna buy 2 5850's only to discover that my PSU can't take it. I do have other hardware not included in my sig ;) I prefer to have more than enough power, than barely enough...
I just like to relax and play an awesome game every now and again. Arkham asylum seems to have some strange kind of bug. When I look around, there's strange artifacts being produced. Kind of like a rubix cube. Imagine spinning 2 rows at a time, but one row is slightly out of sync. That's what I'm dealing with.
On another note, I got windows 7 reinstalled, and everything seems to be back to normal. Though I still have a high percentage of Softwares and games to reintegrate. I plan on putting off networking my 2 pc's, until I'm certain everything is hunky dory ;) I've gotten pretty good at the re-installation game. probably be done inside a couple hours.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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31. May 2010 @ 23:17 |
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Sam will clarify - but Kevin, I think that inner-crossfired isn't exactly the case.
The 5970 as far as I know, as it appears to the outside world, is EXACTLY the same as two 5850s crossfired together. And with the later catalysts, cross fire is working fairly well these days - again Sam will give some pointers on Windows 7.
There is also the advantage of the two cards, in that you don't have to have fast pci-e slots - you could even put one of the cards on a 4x slot, and lose only about 5% of your performance. The 5970, on the other hand, I believe will suffer if you knock it down from 16x to 8x speed - for example if you have something else on your motherboard that doesn't let the graphics card have all 16 lanes of pci-e.
But power requirement-wise, you may have a point. Or maybe not. I don't see why two 5850s would use more power than a 5970 - fans or turbines don't use any real power. I guess I should look up the specs on the 5850, but I have to turn off the computer right now. But if the 5970 comes in just under 300 watts, then I would expect the 5850 to come in under 150 watts.
Anyway, let's see how Sam clarifies this discussion, but I think you would be fine with two 2-gig 5850s in crossfire - your motherboard does have two full-size pci-e graphics cards slots, right? Also Jeff is running crossfire - let's see what he says. I thought Red was too, but the water cooling left him broke, lol.
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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31. May 2010 @ 23:40 |
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Hmmm according to this thread, a 5970 uses more power than a CF/5850. Interesting...
http://hothardware.com/Articles/ATI-Rade...rhouse/?page=11
And I thought a 5970 was merely like bridging say 2 12V batteries in series. Your result would be 24V ;) I guess CPU's and GPU's are a little more complex than that LOL! Though I wouldn't think so...
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