|
The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
1. June 2010 @ 10:08 |
Link to this message
|
Rich: The 4GB 5970 is a limited edition card, as far as I can see, so I'm eager to get my mits on one as soon as. Due to what will be increasing rarity of the cards the price will go up if anything, not down. I have pre-ordered one for £840 (effectively $1035), on the premise that they will soon rise to the common price of £950 ($1173)
The extra price is because it's two 2GB 5870s on one card, the 2GB 5870s themselves are worth £385 each here ($475) so the 4GB card can justifiably be $950 without any cost of its benefits. Amalgamating two GPUs on one card typically carries a premium (the HD5970 for example typically costs around £30 more than two 5850s here), so that brings it up to at least $1000. Then consider the fact that the cooler is worth $50 by itself, and that you're buying a pre-overclocked card.
Sadly, the extreme price of the card is actually pretty justified.
Omega: No program can see the HD5970 as one GPU, it still exists as two GPUs in every sense, with all of the drawbacks, except for needing two slots of course. Additionally, since CF technology is not used the same way with dual cards, there are rare occasions when games simply aren't compatible. Fortunately, disabling Catalyst AI removes the link between the two cards and the vast majority of the time, acts like you've turned crossfire off.
An HD5970 uses slightly less power than two HD5850s but there's very little in it. The main advantage of the 5970 over two 5850s is being a bit more efficient at idle.
What you're describing in Arkham Asylum sounds like tearing, which is the reason VSync was invented. Try using it :P
The HD5970 does not add two 5850s in series lol. Dual graphics technology relies on splitting a load between two GPUs. Since you can't split any particular job in half, the amount of work each GPU has to do is always different to the other, which means scaling is rarely 100%.
|
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
1. June 2010 @ 13:01 |
Link to this message
|
|
Thanks for that explanation. Silly me...I briefly forgot about the benefits of being dual/quad core. If windows still used single core processors, lockups would be inevitable. Games benefit in the same way, utilizing multiple gpu's. Sharing the load. If one gpu stalls on a process, the other is there backing it up so to speak ;) Though I doubt they stall eh.
LOL! Vertical Sync. You know, had I put a little thought into the definition of both those words, I may not have needed to ask. Boy do I feel silly LOL! Thanks for setting me straight.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
1. June 2010 @ 13:28 |
Link to this message
|
|
No, it doesn't really work that way, the GPUs have to be combined at the driver level so the game only perceives one device to send load to. Point is, the driver software still has to manage the load splitting. This is one of the reasons you need a slightly faster CPU for dual graphics systems.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
1. June 2010 @ 13:38 |
Link to this message
|
Ahhh! Well put. I think I have an understanding here then. Drivers certainly require capable CPU's ;) Especially when the drivers are coded for particular types of cpu's. Eg. particular instruction sets. Like SSE. I dealt with that a while back. Microsoft silverlight requires a particular instruction set...SSE if memory serves :p
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
3. June 2010 @ 12:25 |
Link to this message
|
GameGPU have removed all the pointless GPUs from the tests, making the bottom end more tricky to calculate from now on :P
As per usual dual GPU is scaling is assumed at 80%, i.e. 1.8x,2.52x,3.24x.
Need for Speed: World Online (AA excluded)
Minimal: Radeon X1800XL/HD2900 series/HD3690/HD4650/HD5570 or above, Geforce 7800GT/8600GTS/9500GT/GT220 or above
Reduced: Radeon HD3850/HD4700 series/HD5670 or above, Geforce 8800GS/9600GSO G92/GT240 or above
Moderate: Radeon HD4850/HD5770 or above, Geforce 8800 Ultra/9800GTX/GTS250 or above
Good: Radeon HD4850X2/HD5830 or above, Geforce GTX280/GTX275 or above
Optimal: Radeon HD4890CF/HD5830CF or above, Geforce GTX295/GTX480 or above
Extreme: Radeon HD5970 4GB/HD5830 TriCF or above, Geforce GTX285 Tri-SLI/GTX480 SLI or above
Split Second: Velocity (AA excluded) - 30fps frame limit enforced by game engine
Minimal: Radeon HD2900XT/HD3850/HD4670/HD5570 or above, Geforce 8800GS/9600GSO G92/GT240 or above
Reduced: Radeon HD4770/HD4850/HD5750 or above, Geforce 8800 Ultra/9800GTX/GTS250 or above
Moderate: Radeon HD4850X2/HD4770CF/HD5830 or above, Geforce GTX285 or above
Good M30: Radeon HD4850X2/HD4770CF/HD5830 or above, Geforce GTX260 SLI/GTX470 or above
Optimal M30: Radeon HD4870X2/HD5870 or above, Geforce GTX260-216 SLI/GTX470 or above
Extreme M30: Radeon HD5870CF or above, Geforce GTX295 QSLI/GTX470 SLI or above
Blur
Minimal: Radeon X1800 series/HD2900 series/HD3650/HD4550/HD5570 or above, Geforce 7800 series/8600GT/9500GT/GT220 or above
Reduced: Radeon X1950XT-X/HD2900 series/HD3850/HD4670/HD5570 or above, Geforce 8800GS/9600GSO G92/GT220 or above
Moderate: Radeon HD3870/HD4700 series/HD5700 series or above, Geforce 8800GT/9800GT/GT240 or above
Good: Radeon HD4860/HD5770 or above, Geforce GTX260 or above
Optimal: Radeon HD4870X2/HD5850 or above, Geforce GTX260 SLI/GTX470 or above
Extreme: Radeon HD5850 Tri-CF or above, Geforce GTX285 QSLI/GTX470 Tri-SLI or above
Alpha Protocol (AA excluded)
Minimal: Radeon X1800 series/HD2900 series/HD3650/HD4650/HD5570 or above, Geforce 7600GT/8600GT/9500GT/GT220 or above
Reduced: Radeon HD2900 Pro/HD3850/HD4670/HD5570 or above, Geforce 8800GS/9600 series/GT220 or above
Moderate: Radeon HD3870/HD4700 series/HD5700 series or above, Geforce 8800GS/9600GSO G92/GT240 or above
Good: Radeon HD4850/HD5770 or above, Geforce 8800GTS G92/9800GT/GTS250 or above
Optimal: Radeon HD4850X2/HD5830 or above, Geforce GTX260 or above
Extreme: Radeon HD5970 or above, Geforce GTX275 SLI or above
Looking good for the 2x HD5850 users at 1920x1200, nothing they can't handle at the Optimal setting here. 3/4 games also pass with the HD5870CF combo (albeit one only when overclocked to the 4GB HD5970 standard). Blur seems to scale quite strictly with resolution, but since all Extreme preset results are extrapolated due to GameGPU not owning a 30" monitor, the real-world result may not be as bad (or who knows, could be worse). The estimation of 80% dual scaling may also play a part, if the scaling is closer to 100%, the 4GB 5970 may pull off Extreme for Blur as well.
|
Senior Member
|
3. June 2010 @ 16:45 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by andmill11:
Originally posted by Estuansis:
Quote:
What exactly do those hacked drivers add? I'm not too worried if it just adds speaker fill.
If you are on XP they don't add anything. If you are on Vista or 7 they add the Creative Console.
And if you reboot in safe mode and run the Crystallizer unlocker that comes with the hacked drivers you unlock the X-Fi Crystallizer and CMSS-3D Stereo Surround.
Sorry about the poorly cropped screenie BTW did it in 10 seconds with paint...
I am on windows 7. Do you want to PM me a link or something?
It's been kind of a while but I had installed the hacked drivers and they worked great. But yesterday I REALLY needed to record something and of course, no stereo mix or WhatUhear.
I looked on creative and downloaded some VERY old drivers and they had WhatUhear on them. It works great and my battlefield doesn't crash anymore.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
3. June 2010 @ 18:27 |
Link to this message
|
anyone seen the new asus concept? an x58 mobo with lucid and ONBOARD 5770!
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
3. June 2010 @ 18:29 |
Link to this message
|
5770 according to some, 5450 according to others. 5770 would be neat, 5450 seems relatively pointless, but more likely.
Supposedly, Asus have managed to turn Lucid from a complete failure into a flawless success, but NDAs prevent the details from coming out just yet. I'm intrigued, but to say I'm extremely sceptical is an understatement.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
3. June 2010 @ 18:34 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by sammorris:
5770 according to some, 5450 according to others. 5770 would be neat, 5450 seems relatively pointless, but more likely.
Supposedly, Asus have managed to turn Lucid from a complete failure into a flawless success, but NDAs prevent the details from coming out just yet. I'm intrigued, but to say I'm extremely sceptical is an understatement.
LOL! Flawless? I'd be skeptical too ;)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
4. June 2010 @ 15:23 |
Link to this message
|
Well, the 4GB HD5970 arrived, DOA. Since there are no more being produced, the only way I'd get another is send it back to Hong Kong for repair, or for them to produce another from the factory. Given that'd see me minus the £840 I paid and no card to show for it for up to 6 months, I think I'll pass. So that therefore means plan B - get two 5870 Eyefinity6 cards. Slightly cheaper, but no nice cooler (not unless I replace it manually).
Also means I'll need a displayport to DVI adapter for my second monitor, hopefully the cards are provided with one.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
4. June 2010 @ 15:35 |
Link to this message
|
|
Wow. That sucks. My condolences. I guess that's the price we pay for cutting edge technology. Sometimes not all the bugs are worked out, or a design needs to be revised to be more solid/forgiving ;)
What do you think is wrong with it?
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
4. June 2010 @ 15:38 |
Link to this message
|
There's a short in the power circuitry. It smells baaaaad!
Nowt to do with cutting edge technology really, Sapphire just haven't bothered to QC the card, despite how expensive and exclusive it is. Not impressed.
Still, I have to say, DOA percentage with Sapphire does seem higher than most brands. The ones that do work usually last, but this isn't my first DOA Sapphire card, and I know a few people who have had similar grief.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
4. June 2010 @ 16:07 |
Link to this message
|
|
does it actualyl work though? or just smell bad and you turned it off?
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
4. June 2010 @ 16:36 |
Link to this message
|
|
Yah, sapphires reviews have always been less than the average manufacturer. I've noticed that for a while now. But the ones that do well, do get good reviews :)
It is a shame about quality control sometimes. They probably hired a bunch of children, just like everybody else...
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
4. June 2010 @ 16:40 |
Link to this message
|
|
It prevents the system from POSTing (both of them) and two red LEDs remain lit. I'd consider that faulty, me :P
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
4. June 2010 @ 16:48 |
Link to this message
|
|
isit getting enough juice?
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
4. June 2010 @ 17:07 |
Link to this message
|
I'm sure the Zalman would push out enough. If only just to post the system. I've had a faulty sound card behave similarly. The board wouldn't allow the system to post. It gave me an error code, than shut down.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
4. June 2010 @ 17:15 |
Link to this message
|
|
One 5970 vs two 4870X2s, I'm pretty sure it is. The 8-pin connectors are on separate rails, and besides, it's not as if it's shutting down under load, this is at idle. My PSU can handle the OCCT GPU test, so half as many GPUs in the BIOS should be no issue at all :P Pretty sure one of the VRMs is just dead.
|
|
harvrdguy
Senior Member
|
6. June 2010 @ 23:06 |
Link to this message
|
Originally posted by sam:
No, it doesn't really work that way, the GPUs have to be combined at the driver level so the game only perceives one device to send load to. Point is, the driver software still has to manage the load splitting. This is one of the reasons you need a slightly faster CPU for dual graphics systems.
Interesting point - I didn't realize that!
Quote:
Supposedly, Asus have managed to turn Lucid from a complete failure into a flawless success, but NDAs prevent the details from coming out just yet. I'm intrigued, but to say I'm extremely sceptical is an understatement.
Me too!
Kevin - Lucid is more the kind of thing you were expecting in regard to the combining of two or more gpus - supposedly lucid would manage the process of load balancing among the gpus - and the game would just see one graphics card, if I remember correctly.
That is how the very first dual graphics card that was ever developed worked - going back to the gpu pioneer 3dfx in its last days at the end of the 20th century, before nvidia drove them out of existence. They put two gpus on a single card, splitting the screen vertically in half - and the game software never knew there were two gpus.
(I guess that kind of simplistic scheme is kind of impossible due to today's complexity of images - what's in the foreground blocking something in the background? - how is light bouncing from the upper edge and illuminating something down below? ... etc etc. I guess today's final image is far trickier to compute than in the late '90s when 3dfx was able to just split the screen in half.)
Anyway - Lucid was talking some great stuff - but as much as I'd like to see it all work (and some super great ideas have come out of Israel like the whole intel core two duo architecture) - it all sounded way too good to be true.
Good work andmill on retrofitting those old soundblaster drivers and fixing everything - that's why I keep all old reliable drivers around and try to comment on what was working good - sometimes the new stuff ends up messing everything up!
Sorry to hear about the DOA Sam - I didn't realize you'd actually decided to invest in one of those guys. Sounds like you have ruled out PSU - you could always hit it with a hammer and see if that helped :P Or let Shaff's brother have a look at it :D
Originally posted by sam:
Also means I'll need a displayport to DVI adapter for my second monitor, hopefully the cards are provided with one
Second monitor - what do you have in mind, Sam?
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. June 2010 @ 23:11
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
6. June 2010 @ 23:16 |
Link to this message
|
If I remember rightly, 3dfx SLI still used drivers like nvidia's system. Maybe I'm wrong about that though.
As for the second monitor, i've had a 20" 1680x1050 Samsung for over a year now, that I've been using as a secondary display.
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
7. June 2010 @ 14:15 |
Link to this message
|
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphic...om-powercolor/1
wow some really goodinnovations from powercolor.
a half height 5770, thats alot of power in a small space!
a 5770 with a built in NIC, innovative, but WTF comes to mind.
a 5770 with lucid buitl in, this is VERY intresting, if they have it working, you could just save your old GPU and use it with the 5770.
anda 12 display 4GB 5970, band in 2 of them and 24 displays FTW.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
|
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
|
7. June 2010 @ 19:49 |
Link to this message
|
|
Published elsewhere a few days back, forget where.
The Killer NIC card is a con, simply because Killer NIC is a con. It has no functional purpose, it may as well be a scam.
The Lucid integration is interesting, assuming that Lucid actually works now. I've still yet to read a single article that says so.
The 12-display 5970 is interesting, but 12 displays aren't really for gamers, it's more suited to workstations, where you would normally use something a lot less powerful and expensive. The half height card is by far the best of these products. It's just a shame they're all from Powercolor and not a company I trust a bit more.
|
AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
|
8. June 2010 @ 01:30 |
Link to this message
|
|
Has powercolor wronged you in the past sam :p Sorry, had to ask.
I suppose every manufacturer has to start somewhere. I've seen their components on newegg a few times. They've struck me as a low/mid level trustworthy manufacturer. But this new product does sound interesting. And if it works, they're the first to do it. Which could mean good things for them, on the business front ;)
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
|
8. June 2010 @ 02:40 |
Link to this message
|
|
Powercolor's main shortfall is that they make most of their PCBs custom. Not that this is bad, but their designs usually suck and lead to dead/faulty cards. If they've improved their design department, there is no reason not to buy a Powercolor. Just be warned that their past is questionable. Especially be careful with SFF video cards. They have to cut corners somewhere to make it all fit :S
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
|
Advertisement
|
|
|
AfterDawn Addict
|
8. June 2010 @ 02:45 |
Link to this message
|
i have only bought reference stuff of theirs, perfectly fine for me.
sapphire 3rd party is fine for me aswell, as is palit and XFX.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
|
