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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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27. September 2010 @ 17:46 |
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Lol! A 20 horse outboard on a rowing boat pulling skiers, that's hilarious.
To be fair, one of the boats we had was similarly overpowered, it was a 17.5" Reinell that one of my dad's friends imported. Thing was, the 17.5s are meant to have at most the 3.0 4-cylinder sterndrive in them. This had the 4.3 Vortec V6 in it. It was ridiculously fast, but all that weight at the bottom was frankly scary as far as buoyancy goes. As it turned out it was sold in relatively short order for another boat near-identical to the previous one, a 1991 Bayliner 3.0. A lot slower, but the interior trim is so much nicer by comparison, and it actually floats properly, haha.
The grand irony is that the Reinell was immaculate when we sold it, it had hardly ever been used, yet almost immediately afterwards it had to have a considerable amount of work done to it as the 1998 (and a couple of years either side) Mercruiser V6 engines had a design flaw in the manifold where the freshwater heat exchanger is, that could cause said water to leak into the engine, causing pretty serious damage. This only happened just after we sold it...
As it happens the Generator was most of the work on the RV, the only powertrain-related issue [well, the only issue that was actually on the list] was the temperature gauge.
The generator had seen better days really, it was one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7X1qqQa0f24
but was certainly did not start as energetically as that, the main issue being that the coach batteries it runs off/charges were pretty mouldy and needed replacing.
One of the 'not on the list' things that happened whilst it was in their care though, was a seemingly temporary failure of the 'autopark' system, which you guys may know about, GM's hydraulic parking brake system, since a normal parking brake would be hopeless with a 7 ton vehicle. Being a hydraulic system it leaked, and left the parking brake stuck on. Having done some reading on it, it seems like a really common flaw with the GM RV system, related to an almost inevitable failing of a Green Pressure switch, affectionately known by other RV owners as the RGS or 'Rotten Green Switch'. Amazing what you can find on the internet these days.
The shall we say 'exploits' in Mexico sound awesome Rich, though I imagine that must have been quite a trek to get all the way down there?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. September 2010 @ 17:50
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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28. September 2010 @ 00:04 |
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Wow, you've had some nice boat experiences, Sam - that bayliner sounds very nice. Where did you run the boat? I know you're surrounded by water - so I guess out in the channel somewhere. Although not to be completely ignorant, I just googled "lakes in england" and I see you've got some big ones - I never think of lakes when I think of England.
That is one noisy little generator, for sure - reminds me of the Delta fans, lol.
Originally posted by sam:
The shall we say 'exploits' in Mexico sound awesome Rich, though I imagine that must have been quite a trek to get all the way down there?
EXPLOITS is a good way to put it. :D
Actually the distance to San Felipe is not so great. It is directly across from Ensenada on the peninsula known as Baja California. If you look on a map at Southern California, you will see that just below California extends a long 1000 mile sliver of land. That sliver is a state in Mexico called Baja California. It is long, and very narrow, maybe 60 miles wide or so.
Ensenada is only about 3-4 hours south of Los Angeles, and once you are there, you can actually cross over to the other side of the sliver of land in about 2 hours. That takes you to the towns that line the eastern beaches. Or you could head East from San Diego, and reach the border crossing to head due south along the Eastern edge of Baja. That's the way we returned to LA.
But on that trip, we just had no idea that San Felipe gets so hot in the summer. But the water was great. The water is not out on the Pacific - it is enclosed by the sliver of land, and by Mexico proper, so there very little wave action, and the water is not very cold. We bought the boat sometime after that, but if we had had the boat at that time we could have launched it right from the beach. THAT would have been just as much fun as all the horsing around with the dirt bikes.
Rich
Edit: I finally sorted out the pictures I want to post - some dozen or so, lol. I added some colored arrows to several of them to illustrate my ventilation ideas. I'll get to it probably tomorrow. (I don't know exactly how long I'll have to live with this case - but at my snail's pace of change - probably a year unless Miles says "bring it back - time to turn it in." Haha.)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. September 2010 @ 00:11
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. September 2010 @ 09:28 |
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Quote:
That is one noisy little generator, for sure - reminds me of the Delta fans, lol.
Maybe, but there's not a lot in it. It wasn't that bad as generators go.
Google Maps 'Osea Island' - that's where we usually go with the boat, as its the closest bit of water where it's convenient to launch from, since we trailer it home, rather than leave it moored (which does nasty things to boats, I'm amazed people have the guts to do it).
This summer we actually took it the 330 mile trip down to Falmouth for a week, out in the channel there, and exploring the network of rivers. We found an awesome riverside pub that's primarily accessed from the river. The bizarre thing is it's a layup spot for large ships when they're dormant in a fleet or awaiting sale etc.
This is as close as the road goes for a Google Streetview (The pub is tucked away to the right behind the trees)
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source...12,26.4,,0,9.66
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. September 2010 @ 09:29
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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28. September 2010 @ 18:36 |
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Holy crap! That is a pretty big boat sitting there on the bank of the river - good old google. Haha. Hey! Third time hitting the link, the street view shot decided to crisp up to full resolution - now I can see the carriage lamp on the walkway to the pub - and I see the little boat heading over toward us. In fact at 200% internet explorer, I see another boat docked in front of the pub. Is that the size of your Bayliner?
Hey Sam, I've got a surprise for you. "Tucked away behind the trees" - nothing! Google took a bunch of pictures. A "pictures" link popped up for a second, and there are 6 more shots besides the "street view." Here is one that shows the front of your pub.
And here's another one of the 6 shots, showing the mooring you were mentioning, and the launching ramp. Google loves that pub!
From this wikipedia picture showing the location of Osea Island, it looks like Essex, England is filled with all kinds of rivers that drain out to the Channel.
I think I missed a few classes in junior high - before today's lesson I pretty much knew zero about English geography. Thanks for updating me. I'll have to drop by one summer and and have a pint of some warm beer with you guys at Osea, lol.
Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. September 2010 @ 18:38 |
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Hah wow, so they are.
That's not Osea in the photos though, that's Trellissick in Cornwall, which is where we went for the week.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. September 2010 @ 23:11 |
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Formula 1 2010:
Max details with 8xAA
1280x1024 DX9
M10: Radeon HD5570/4650/3690/2900GT/X1900XT, Geforce GT220/9600 series/8800GS
M20: Radeon HD5670/4830/3850, Geforce GT240/9800GT/8800GT
M30: Radeon HD5750/4830/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GTX/8800GTS 512
M40: Radeon HD5770/4860/3870X2, Geforce GTS450/GTX260/9800GX2
M50: Radeon HD5830/4890, Geforce GTX460/280/9800GX2
M60: Radeon HD5830/4850X2, Geforce GTX465/295
1920x1080 DX9
M10: Radeon HD5570/4670/3850/2900Pro, Geforce GT240/9600GSO/8800GS
M20: Radeon HD5750/4830/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GTX/8800GTS 512
M30: Radeon HD5770/4860/3870X2, Geforce GTS450/GTX260/9800GX2
M40: Radeon HD5830/4890, Geforce GTX460/275
M50: Radeon HD5850/4850X2, Geforce GTX470/295
M60: Radeon HD5870/4870X2, Geforce GTX480/295
2560x1600 DX9 (est)
M10: Radeon HD5670/4830/3870, Geforce GT240/9800GT/8800GT
M20: Radeon HD5770/4870/3870X2, Geforce GTX460/GTX260-216/9800GX2
M30: Radeon HD5850/4850X2, Geforce GTX470/295
M40: Radeon HD5870/4870X2, Geforce GTX480/295
M50: 2xRadeon HD5830, 2xGeforce GTX460 1GB
M60: Radeon HD5970, 2xGeforce GTX470
1280x1024 DX11
M10: Radeon HD5570, Geforce GTS450
M20: Radeon HD5750, Geforce GTS450
M30: Radeon HD5750, Geforce GTS450
M40: Radeon HD5830, Geforce GTX460
M50: Radeon HD5830, Geforce GTX460 1GB
M60: Radeon HD5850, Geforce GTX470
1920x1080 DX11
M10: Radeon HD5570, Geforce GTS450
M20: Radeon HD5750, Geforce GTS450
M30: Radeon HD5830, Geforce GTX460
M40: Radeon HD5830, Geforce GTX470
M50: Radeon HD5850, Geforce GTX480
M60: 2xRadeon HD5830, 2xGeforce GTX460
2560x1600 DX11 (est)
M10: Radeon HD5750, Geforce GTS450
M20: Radeon HD5830, Geforce GTX460
M30: Radeon HD5850, Geforce GTX480
M40: 2xRadeon HD5830, 2xGeforce GTX465
M50: Radeon HD5970, 2xGeforce GTX470
M60: 2xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX480
Arcania - Gothic 4[Demo]
Max details, no AA applied
1024x768:
M10: Radeon HD5750/4770/3870X2, Geforce GTS450/GTS250/9800GTX/8800GTS 512
M20: Radeon HD5850/4870X2, Geforce GTX460/285
M30: 2xRadeon HD5830, Geforce GTX470/295
M40: 2xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX460
M50: 3xRadeon HD5850, 2xGeforce GTX470
M60: 3xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX480
1280x1024:
M10: Radeon HD5770/4870/3870X2, Geforce GTS450/GTS250/9800GX2
M20: Radeon HD5870, Geforce GTX460 1GB/295
M30: Radeon HD5970, Geforce GTX480
M40: 3xRadeon HD5850, 2xGeforce GTX470
M50: 3xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX480
M60: 4xRadeon HD5870, 3xGeforce GTX470
1680x1050:
M10: Radeon HD5830/4890, Geforce GTS450/GTX260/9800GX2
M20: 2xRadeon HD5830, Geforce GTX470/295
M30: 2xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX460 1GB
M40: 3xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX480
M50: 4xRadeon HD5870, 3xGeforce GTX470
M60: 3xRadeon HD6870 (speculative),3xGeforce GTX480
1920x1080:
M10: Radeon HD5830/4850X2, Geforce GTS450/GTX260-216
M20: Radeon HD5970, Geforce GTX480
M30: 3xRadeon HD5850, 2xGeforce GTX470
M40: 2xRadeon HD5970, 3xGeforce GTX470
M50: 3xRadeon HD6870 (speculative), 3xGeforce GTX480
M60: 4xRadeon HD6870 (speculative), 4xGeforce GTX480
2560x1600 (est):
M10: 2xRadeon HD5830, Geforce GTX470/295
M20: 3xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX480
M30: 3xRadeon HD6870 (speculative), 3xGeforce GTX480
M40: 4xRadeon HD6870 (speculative), 4xGeforce GTX480
M50: Not Possible on 40nm process hardware
M60: Not Possible on 40nm process hardware
Darksiders
Max detail - no AA applied
1024x768:
M10: Radeon HD5570/4650/3690/2900GT/X1800XL, Geforce GT220/9600 series/8800GS
M20: Radeon HD5570/4830/3850/2900XT, Geforce GT240/9600GSO/8800GS
M30: Radeon HD5750/4830/3870X2, Geforce GT240/9800GT/8800GT
M40: Radeon HD5750/4770/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GTX/8800GTS 512
M50: Radeon HD5770/4870/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GX2
M60: Radeon HD5830/4890, Geforce GTS450/GTX260/9800GX2
1280x1024:
M10: Radeon HD5570/4650/3690/2900GT/X1800XT, Geforce GT220/9600 series/8800GS
M20: Radeon HD5670/4830/3850, Geforce GT240/9600GSO/8800GS
M30: Radeon HD5750/4830/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GT/8800GT
M40: Radeon HD5770/4860/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GTX/8800 Ultra
M50: Radeon HD5830/4890, Geforce GTS450/GTX260/9800GX2
M60: Radeon HD5830/4850X2, Geforce GTX460/280
1680x1050:
M10: Radeon HD5570/4670/3850/2900Pro/X1900XT, Geforce GT220/9600 series/8800GS
M20: Radeon HD5750/4830/3870, Geforce GT240/9600GT/8800GT
M30: Radeon HD5750/4770/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GTX/8800GTS 512
M40: Radeon HD5830/4870, Geforce GTS450/GTX260/9800GX2
M50: Radeon HD5830/4850X2, Geforce GTX460/280
M60: Radeon HD5850/4870X2, Geforce GTX460/285
1920x1080:
M10: Radeon HD5570/4670/3850/2900Pro, Geforce GT220/9600 series/8800GS
M20: Radeon HD5750/4830/3870X2, Geforce GT240/9800GT/8800GT
M30: Radeon HD5770/4860/3870X2, Geforce GTS250/9800GX2
M40: Radeon HD5830/4890, Geforce GTS450/GTX260-216/9800GX2
M50: Radeon HD5850/4850X2, Geforce GTX460/275
M60: Radeon HD5870/4870X2, Geforce GTX470/295
2560x1600 (est):
M10: Radeon HD5750/4830/3870, Geforce GT240/9600GT/8800GT
M20: Radeon HD5830/4870, Geforce GTS450/GTX260/9800GX2
M30: Radeon HD5850/4870X2, Geforce GTX465/295
M40: 2xRadeon HD5830, Geforce GTX480/295
M50: Radeon HD5970, 2xGeforce GTX275
M60: 2xRadeon HD5870, 2xGeforce GTX470
I'm not looking forward to specifying systems for Gothic 4 - Holy crap!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. September 2010 @ 23:12
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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28. September 2010 @ 23:26 |
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Wow, Sam, while I've been posting, you've been detailing system requirements for three more games!
But from your post just before that:
Originally posted by Sam:
Hah wow, so they are.
That's not Osea in the photos though, that's Trellissick in Cornwall, which is where we went for the week.
Oh, yeah, right. Sorry for the confusion. You mentioned that you usually go to Osea, which is very close to where you live, but this summer you trekked 330 miles south to Falmouth for a week, where you discovered the pub. Good find!!
I'm glad that google took all those extra shots - really a very nice place, that pub, across from the giant ship! LOL
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Finally, after much delay, here are the new gaming rig photos I have been promising to post, showing my attempts at improving the ventilation of this loaner rig.
(This is not a long post, compared to some of my past tomes, just a tad over 2500 words, but of course appears quite long because of the dozen photographs. I needed to get this posted - the new rig is so awesome, and for me it represents a great new step forward after what Shaff called my 3 years of procrastination!)
So first of all, let me remind everybody:
It's a loaner rig, at least for now, and that means that I can't "spindle or mutilate", which translates into no drilling any holes in the side panel, or in the ceiling like Kevin just did on his non-HAF non-gaming rig. The Antec is a sturdy, well-built case, but it came with only one fan, an adjustable 3-speed Antec rear exhaust fan, which I have set on max at 2000 rpm.
I posted these front and back shots before - here they are as a set.
Inside this case is a 750watt Toughpower CWT version Thermaltake like Sam used to have, a Q9450 quad processor, and a 8800GTX graphics card. Compared to my 4 ghz p4 at 6000 3dmark6, this blows the doors off that at 13,654 points, and I haven't even started OCing the q9450 that is breezing along right now at 2.6ghz.
By the way, just for the fun of it, as a benchmark, I ran a little encoding routine that converts m4v to avi. The p4 had scored 230 frames/second when I turned off HT, showing 100% cpu utilization. (With HT on it was only getting 142 frames per second, with 50% cpu utilization - proving that on some single-thread applications, turning off HT is a good idea, as has been discussed on this forum.) My brother's phenom 1, scored 330, with one core at 100%, the rest idle. And this Q9450, at stock clocks of 2.6ghz (same as the phenom) scored 425, with one core 100%, the rest idle. That is an 85% speed improvement over my p4, per core. Factoring in the difference in clocks, the Q9450 quad, with core 2 duo architecture, is 280% faster, clock for clock, than my p4 netburst architecture (at least as regards this one video conversion application.)
I'll think about overclocking the q9450 later when I get a stronger graphics card that turns the cpu into the bottleneck.
BUT I SURE CAN'T DO THAT WITHOUT IMPROVING THE VENTILATION!
So the first ventilation idea that Sam came up with, when I complained that I didn't have enough room for the kama bay, was to suggest that I ditch the optical drive, freeing up 3 5.25" drive bays - room enough to move the kama bay from the p4 over to the Q9450.
Here's my concept of the improved case ventilation from a strong kama bay intake fan:
Look at the big blue arrow in the middle. This case is 1" wider than my p4 case, and I am counting on the extra space around the graphics card to allow a lot of the intake air to reach the gpu lower section of the case. (At the tail of the big blue arrow, is a 3-bay 5.25" device tray, and a 2-bay 3.5" tray. It occurs to me just now, looking at this picture, that possibly I could get really clever and secure another 120mm behind the kama bay fan, but angled down maybe 45 degrees to direct more of the kama bay flow downward toward the graphics card.)
I show a little blue arrow pointing to the front, and hot air coming out the bottom front. The front of the case, looking at the next photo, has two large openings with vents which will allow some hot air venting lower front, also cooling the hard drives.
But the main venting is all along the back, including at the back top a tiny vent for the northbridge - the motherboard shipped with a tiny northbridge fan, which the builder did not install - but I can add any 30mm or 40mm that will fit in that area, later on if I need it.
So that is the theory behind using a kama bay intake, which required me to remove my only optical drive. Omega assured me that a usb optical would start my games, so I took the $30 ebay plunge and sure enough, the usb optical drive works! - fortunate for Kevin! :P
So above, you're looking obviously at the opening for the Kama Bay, which is sitting on top of the Antec. Remember, this is fan #2 - my one AND ONLY intake fan! And remember again, I can't modify the case - the whole rig is a loaner. I do have a $180 full tower brand new spedo case sitting in its box in the garage, but I am not quite ready to move all the components over there yet - maybe next year some time.
Here is the kama bay mounted in the antec. Don't laugh! Yes, I'm using rubber bands! (On top of the case, you're looking at a Zantec fan controller next to a pair of 80mm fans. The Zantec controller is just something temporary.)
I had modded a filter in front of the kama bay - I found it really silly a year ago to have to remove the kama bay from my p4 to change the filter. However, to snap off the filter cap requires a bit of pulling. As I imagined removing and replacing that filter cap, I decided that siliconing the kama bay to the antec would not be strong enough to survive a filter change.
Brainstorming several possible methods, my ultimate solution was to utilize an industrial rubber band - an extra is hanging from the Antec door so that you can see what it looks like. I doubled it up, then carefully, and with a huge amount of force, slid the kama bay in while also pushing on the rubber band to get it into the case.
Believe me, it was not easy at all - it is wedged in quite tightly!
Later I had to remove everything, and disassemble the 25mm thick 120mm 1600 rpm scythe when the 38mm ultra kaze fan arrived, and then I hunted for longer 2.5" very thin bolts, offset with 3 nuts and a lock washer per bolt, to secure the thicker kaze, then wrestled the kama bay back into place, tightly wedged in by that giant rubber band.
Hearing scary stories about the strength of the 0.6 amp 134cfm 3000rpm 45db ultra kaze (which turned out not to be true) I figured it would blow so vigorously that it would try to push itself out of my case. So on the right of the above picture, I have two normal rubber bands attached to a removable key holder from Home Depot, which is glued to the side of the case - it is made to be easily unglued by pulling and thereby compressing the glue material. These two wide rubber bands, placed on top of each other, block the kama, on that side, from falling out the front.
This mounting does leave a few vent holes, especially above and below the industrial rubber band, but scotch tape handles those small open vent areas.
This mounting method accomplishes my goal of being able to grab the kama bay and hold it securely in place, while I snap off and on the filter cap.
At the same time, in terms of its ability to retain the kama bay in the case while I am gaming, I really believe this setup is sturdy enough to secure even the MONSTER 4 amp 252cfm 66.5 db Delta fan (and certainly either of its younger brothers, the 2.5 amp 220cfm 65db, or the 2 amp 190cfm 59db Delta.)
The red arrow is pointing to the 3.5" bay area which unsnaps. The very best fan controllers are all too wide, but I have found two of questionable quality, which will fit that area, each 4-channel device rated at 1.5 amps per channel.
NOW LET'S MOVE OVER TO THE BACK OF THE CASE
Here is the all-important exhaust setup - I can't mod a ceiling exhaust - this is it!
Here's the back from the inside. This is a crossfire p5E motherboard x38, so 16 lanes of pci-e for each card. But I don't know if I'll still be using this case by the time I add another graphics card, so it just occured to me that I could place a couple of 40mm fans where the bottom 3 slot covers are, for extra exhaust in the gpu area.
Here's the outside back shot.
Other than the slot covers, notice the venting on the right. That venting is only about 40mm wide, but about 7" high. An 80mm fan will be half blocked by the panel - but I believe I'll still get more air flow than if I used a smaller fan.
So, here's the back with the cluster of 80mm fans siliconed in place.
These are just a couple of 80s that I had lying around to test the idea. The bottom 80mm is stronger at 0.25 amps, probably about 4500 rpm. I took it off the p4, replacing it with something quieter, when I put the p4 in the sunroom for general use by whomever, because the 80 was the loudest, most annoying noisemaker in the machine. The other 80 is weak, at half the amps. Running furmark, a ton of hot air comes out the strong bottom 80.
Here's a close-up of the back, showing that northbridge venting area I mentioned earlier, with the red circle around it. I am pleased to say that with the kaze now in the kama bay, I can feel air coming out from that northbridge venting area, as well as out from the bottom front of the case - meaning I have achieved my goal of positive case pressure.
SO PREPARE YOURSELF TO BE AMAZED!! - HOW WELL DID ALL THIS MODDING WORK?
It didn't work worth a damn!
Furmark pushed the gpu to 99 degrees, whether or not I had the ultra kaze and the rear 80s at max rpm.
(All three fans, the two 80s and the 120mm ultra kaze, are on the same little zalman controller. Turned down low, the antec is a very quiet machine that even Sam would be proud of. Turned up, the kaze and the 4500 rpm 80 certainly DO make a racket, but not really that loud - not anything really much noisier than the p4 with the same 80, which I never came close to hearing through the Medusa headphones. And if you have caught it by now, you're right, I AM overloading the Zalman. The little Zalman is rated at 0.5 amps, and these three fans total 1 amp - but so far the Zalman has not overheated - however I wonder if I'm getting full speed from the kaze.)
What the hell! The crazy 8800GTX is boiling!
(Keep in mind, we've been having some hot weather over here. Yesterday was the hottest day in 133 years - Los Angeles reached 113 degrees, and here, 60 miles south, we showed 111.)
I don't really like running any graphics card at the boiling point of water, no matter what the specs say!
Then I remembered that in one of the newegg kaze reviews, a guy mentioned that the 38mm kaze was so wide, he easily placed it inside sitting on the bottom of his case, with a few ties, pointed at the graphics card, and dropped his gpu temps 10 degrees. I took the 1600 rpm scythe that I pulled off the kama bay, and gave it a go!
Side panel off, fan added, side panel back on, 10 minutes has passed, let's run Furmark!
A 9 degree heat reduction!
That's the reason I ordered another kaze. I did run this setup a couple days later, as the scorching weather set in, and temps were back up to 99, even with this side fan. I couldn't believe it. That was late in the day before the all-time record-setting scorcher of yesterday.
But fortunately the heat wave has passed. Additionally, I am hoping that furmark is tougher on the card than ordinary gaming would be. I remember Jeff mentioning that furmark seems to be the very toughest gpu tester around.
So here is what the rig looks like all assembled.
The picture above is the finished look, with the door open for gaming, and here is the final shot with the door closed:
You have to hand it to Antec - they make a good looking case.
UPGRADING TO STRONGER FANS
I already mentioned thinking about one of the Delta 120mm fans for the kama bay, maybe the 190, 220, or even 252 cfm. Sidewinder sells a 50 watt rheostat that I could mount in the 3.5" bay fan controller I am considering, for the kama bay delta fan. That would leave 3 more controller slots available for the two 80s in the back, and for a 3000 rpm kaze that would replace the rear 2000 rpm antec.
So for back exhaust fans, I could beef up the main exhaust with a kaze as I just mentioned, and I could replace the two rear 80mm fans, with 25mm thick Deltas, at 1/2 amp each and 4500 rpm, pulling 67 cfm at 48db, or 38mm thick Deltas at 0.9 amps each, pulling 80cfm, at 5700rpm and 52db.
If I can't hear it through the headphones, I don't mind, but two 5700 rpm 80s might be pushing it - maybe the 4500s would make more sense - each makes about the same noise as a kaze, and I would have another kaze inside the case, in the same location. The Delta noise would be partially shielded by the fan filter, and by the front grill of the kama bay, and I would have full control with the rheostat. All this to live with this loaner case - another $120 worth of fans and controller - if I decide I have to beef up the air flow.
With the end of the hot weather almost upon us, I probably have at least 6 months before overheating will become an issue again. Well before then, I'll hopefully upgrade the 8800GTX with something from the 5000 family. I would actually love to throw a 4 gig 5970 in it if I had a spare $1200 bucks - (but would the 750psu handle it?) Maybe I'll sell a house in the next few months, lol.
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. September 2010 @ 23:29
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28. September 2010 @ 23:35 |
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As it happens, the Santa Giuliana (foreground in my pic, closest to pub), one of 6 ships moored there at the time we visited, has since departed and is back in regular service, we found out :P
That encoding app is probably AMD-biased unless your brother has the 9950, as that 28% difference is about how much faster the Q9450 (stock) is over the 9950.
Q9450s overclock quite well without any extra voltage, typically to the 3.2Ghz mark, sometimes as high as 3.4. With no extra voltage there's no extra heat, so don't be afraid to give that a try. Right now though it's the GPU that's the bottleneck really, not the CPU, especially at 2560x1600.
You don't want exhaust air over the hard disks out the front. It interferes with other airflow routes, and it means the HDDs receive hot air, which is bad for cooling. Hard disk front fans should always be intake.
No laughing at the rubber bands, I used them to hold a fan onto my Ultra-120 vibration-free for ages until I bought the plastic fan holders I use now.
See what I mean about side fans? You can have all the front/rear ventilation you like, but it's the side ventilation that does the business.
A 750W PSU would handle one 4GB 5970, but don't buy one, they're terribly unreliable. Just wait until the HD6970 (or 6990, we still don't know the name yet) comes out in December, and buy that :P
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harvrdguy
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29. September 2010 @ 00:05 |
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Hmmmm, googling the MF9400F HP Pavilion, which is what my brother picked up, I am finding that the cpu is supposed to be a 2.6ghz AMD Phenom X4 9750. Does that sound right to you? You're thinking there should be more of a spread between the 330 fps of that, and the 425 fps of the Q9450, right?
Quote:
With no extra voltage there's no extra heat, so don't be afraid to give that a try. Right now though it's the GPU that's the bottleneck really, not the CPU, especially at 2560x1600.
Hey, I didn't know that - great tip.
I read a whole thing about overclocking the dfi board, multiples, memory timings - I've forgotten everything. It was one of the main forums about that board - I have the link. Do you have any overclocking links you want to throw at me?
Or should I just google my P5E card, and go from there?
Originally posted by sam:
A 750W PSU would handle one 4GB 5970, but don't buy one, they're terribly unreliable. Just wait until the HD6970 (or 6990, we still don't know the name yet) comes out in December, and buy that :P
Hmmmm.
I see on some of your performance charts above, that you rate two 5870s above one 5970. Is that because of the reduced clocks, or because of the pci-e bottleneck. I would be thinking about getting an overclocked 5970 (or 6970 as it were) with at least the same clocks as the single-gpu model.
However, if one could actually get better performance from two separate cards, because of pci-e bottlenecking I suppose, then I might just get two single gpu cards. It is very doubtful that I would try two 2xcards, for 4 gpus, prior to 28nm 7000 family.
I see what you mean about driving hot air over the hard drives. I'm not sure what I can do - there is no room to put any other front intake fan, other than the kama bay.
However, on the P4, I actually tied a pci 2-fan card cooler in vertical position next to the hard drives. There was 1/2 inch of room to do that. From the photos, it actually looks like I could do something similar in this case, and maybe somewhat mitigate the effect of that hot air blowing over from the back of the case.
Rich
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29. September 2010 @ 07:34 |
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Yeah there's a bit of a discrepancy between the 9750 and your Q9450, you should have about 10% more lead than that.
There's nothing we can really link you to that we can't tell you ourselves, save pictures of what your BIOS looks like :P
Basically overclocking Core 2s is a simple, easy checklist:
1. Raise FSB to desired level
2. Adjust memory multiplier to fit. (example: FSB from 333->360. If using 1066mhz memory, ensure multiplier is below 2.96. If using 800mhz memory, ensure multiplier is below 2.22, i.e. use 2.0)
The lowest memory multiplier is 2. 800mhz memory therefore cannot be used to overclock beyond 400FSB (2x400=800), else the RAM is being overclocked. 400FSB on the Q9450 is 3.2Ghz.
(Good coolers only)3. If still stability problems with correct memory multiplier, raise CPU VCore [slowly]. As a general rule of thumb do not exceed 1.40-1.42VCore on 45nm Core 2 chips. Higher will reduce the CPU's lifespan considerably
(Advanced)4. If still stability problems at the same speed even with considerable VCore increase, try raising Northbridge Vcore [slowly]. As a general guideline don't exceed +0.25V, or 1.5V. The X38 Northbridge is 65nm so can withstand higher voltages, but remember, it will get very hot!
You shouldn't need to overvolt the northbridge until you reach very high FSBs like 450.
X38 chipsets have a built in limitation that makes it near-impossible to exceed 455 FSB on any Core 2 Quad. I do not recommend trying to exceed this, it is extremely difficult.
Rich:
An HD5970 may use two 5870 GPUs, but due to the downclock, it's effectively two 5850s. There is no guarantee you can overclock a 5970 to 5870 speeds, and if you do the power/heat requirements are intense.
PCIe bottlenecking won't really affect you to be honest, the loss from 8x to 16x is typically around 1-2% on modern cards.
Personally I think you should stop considering the HD5 series if you're not building straight away, within 3 months all the high-end HD6000 series cards should be out, and you would want to use those instead.
To cool the hard disks without an extra front fan, get a side cooler, like the Nexus Frizbee.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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29. September 2010 @ 21:21 |
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Nice overclocking recipe - thanks Sam!
I'll just go ahead and save that post in my indispensable PaperPort folder! I'll just follow it step by step, like baking a cake, once Everest and cpu-z tell me exactly what I've got to work with memory-wise. As I recall, the memory is fast, but I'll confirm later.
- - - - - - - - - - - -
And another good tip - what a great idea - a cooler that clamps onto the hard drive like a leech!!! LOL
VERY NICE!! :D
Quote:
An HD5970 may use two 5870 GPUs, but due to the downclock, it's effectively two 5850s. There is no guarantee you can overclock a 5970 to 5870 speeds, and if you do the power/heat requirements are intense.
PCIe bottlenecking won't really affect you to be honest, the loss from 8x to 16x is typically around 1-2% on modern cards.
Well, really, I was thinking of the Sapphire toxic 5970 4 gig - they sell it at clocks of 900, whereas the standard 5870 has clocks of 850. They use a modified Arctic Accelero xtreme 5870 cooler - that's why I thought perhaps the pci-e lanes might become a bottleneck.
But from your comments, I take it that the main reason two 5870s beat a 5970 in your game charts a few posts back, is of course because you're comparing to a regular 5970 that is using lower 5850 clocks.
If there were really no pci-e bottleneck of any substance, then a highly factory overclocked 900 mhz toxic with arctic cooler, would be obviously quite a powerful card (they suggest an 850 watt psu) leaving open the, however unlikely, possibility of throwing another one on the second graphics card slot, and raping 2560x1600 crysis, or warhead, or BC/2, all with merely a modest $2500 worth of graphics power. Hahahaha!
I can imagine Shaff saying "I seriously doubt that!" Yeah, he's right - HIGHLY UNLIKELY any time soon! :P
Originally posted by sam:
Personally I think you should stop considering the HD5 series if you're not building straight away, within 3 months all the high-end HD6000 series cards should be out, and you would want to use those instead.
Good point! Yes, I certainly hear you about the 6000 family. Let's see what $500 will buy me in about 4-5 months.
After that, it is much more likely that before I get REALLY serious about crysis-raping graphics power, we'll all be eyeing the 7000 28nm family in 2012.
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30. September 2010 @ 08:00 |
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7000 28nm family in 2012 is all well and good...but can it run Crysis 2.
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30. September 2010 @ 08:15 |
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The 4GB Toxic 5970, apart from being hideously unreliable (Remember I had two, supposedly 'hand tested', neither of which worked, and one of which tried to burn out the PCIe slot had I not noticed first!) does nothing [aside from extra memory] that two 5870s can't do, and if you just buy two Eyefinity6 5870s [which is about the same price] then you get the same result, albeit with more noise and higher temps.
XFX have produced a 4GB 5970 now, which should be pretty good, but it's more expensive than the others, and does not have a good cooler like the Sapphire, thus it will still be noisy and hot.
The 8x/16x test was run on a GTX480, which is not only more powerful than a 5870 (and as least as powerful as a 5870 at 900mhz) but also requires more bandwidth.
Even with the 480, 8x had about a 3% performance drop on 16x. Note that the 900mhz 5870 clock only gets you about 5% extra performance anyway.
Lastly, the performance figures stack up somewhat like this.
HD4870: 100
HD5850: 155
HD5870: 180
HD5970: 160-320 (157-314 counting PCIe bandwidth)
4GB HD5970: 180-360 (175-350 counting PCIe bandwidth)
Toxic HD5970: 190-380 (185-370 counting PCIe bandwidth)
GTX480: 190
HD6870 (from industry estimations): 235-260
I perceive Crysis 2 in being, like the first one, very demanding, but quite scaleable. I perceive it running on not too awful settings on single 8800s, but I don't see four HD6870s running it anywhere near Max.
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30. September 2010 @ 16:23 |
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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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harvrdguy
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30. September 2010 @ 16:54 |
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Originally posted by DXR:
7000 28nm family in 2012 is all well and good...but can it run Crysis 2.
Notice, how there is always somebody who will rain on my parade. :P
Actually, I take that back - DXR was sayin "Letm get a delta fan if he wants - couldn't hurt (except his eardrums.)"
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Well that is some interesting news about 6000. So if the industry estimates are close, the 6870 is roughly 40% faster than 5870. How did they do it, Sam, on the same die width?
Kevin, the leds look good as far as I can tell - but when you said ultra violet on the camera photo - I too was kind of wondering how you were thinking to capture that effect. That's the light that makes certain rocks glow, right? I used to have a big black light in my room - kind of trippy!
Anyway, so are you saying that the LEDs, in addition to being blue, also put out UV light? Cool!
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30. September 2010 @ 16:57 |
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I see the light as being purple. That was the only effect I was after. Experimentation is often the only way to get answers you know. Clearly, that spectrum is not invisible to us :p
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30. September 2010 @ 17:07 |
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Quote:
Well that is some interesting news about 6000. So if the industry estimates are close, the 6870 is roughly 40% faster than 5870. How did they do it, Sam, on the same die width?
Quite simple, make the actual die 40% larger!
Though to be fair, it's only using 22% more power (supposedly). Still a fair bit though.
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1. October 2010 @ 13:17 |
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Last weekend I took a X264 download over to my brothers(Stand up comedy). We generally use Arcsoft Totalmedia theatre 3. With Arcsoft, we started getting incredible pixelation. Hardware Acceleration was enabled. But at the time, I just thought try Media player classic HC. Worked for a few minutes, then Windows 7 completely locked up. Had to unplug it. Went back to Arcsoft, and disabled hardware acceleration. Played without hitch after that. But I noted the GPU temps(Geforce 210) were rather high for HD playback. Or atleast my GTX 260 wouldn't run that hot. I wonder if the card is already quitting.
I'll be encoding my BD rip of Iron Man 2, to x264 @ 1080, and trying it again. Because if that card is going, it may be time to try ati in that mobo. Even though several ati models are referenced in its manual, and warned against. I'd like to see how an ati card handles the underscan.
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1. October 2010 @ 13:55 |
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If it's 1080p the G210 will have to work pretty hard to render it as it's slower than the CPU at decoding video a lot of the time, so that may explain why it gets quite hot. Should never completely crash the OS though, if that's happening either the card is bad or there's a driver problem.
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1. October 2010 @ 14:07 |
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That particular file was only 720P. I wonder about the card. Now I'm REALLY regretting that card :p
I'm face palming myself right now.
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. October 2010 @ 14:08
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1. October 2010 @ 14:10 |
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A Pentium D can decode 720p fine :P
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1. October 2010 @ 14:17 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
A Pentium D can decode 720p fine :P
Oh damn! Well, I'll play with it tomorrow night. Perhaps tonight. If my 1080 file plays fine, then it was probably just a bad coded file. I've had video files that I encoded/transcoded act funny ;) Mmm hmm. The cpu could handle the strange code, but if there were some unknown exception, perhaps the hardware acceleration couldn't do it. I guess I'll find out soon enough.
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1. October 2010 @ 16:02 |
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There are plenty of bad rips out there, and plenty of bad codecs for playing them with!
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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2. October 2010 @ 16:54 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Last weekend I took a X264 download over to my brothers(Stand up comedy). We generally use Arcsoft Totalmedia theatre 3. With Arcsoft, we started getting incredible pixelation. Hardware Acceleration was enabled. But at the time, I just thought try Media player classic HC. Worked for a few minutes, then Windows 7 completely locked up. Had to unplug it. Went back to Arcsoft, and disabled hardware acceleration. Played without hitch after that. But I noted the GPU temps(Geforce 210) were rather high for HD playback. Or atleast my GTX 260 wouldn't run that hot. I wonder if the card is already quitting.
I'll be encoding my BD rip of Iron Man 2, to x264 @ 1080, and trying it again. Because if that card is going, it may be time to try ati in that mobo. Even though several ati models are referenced in its manual, and warned against. I'd like to see how an ati card handles the underscan.
I've noticed that if you're running x64 win7 using the x86 build of MPC HC can cause problems.
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2. October 2010 @ 17:29 |
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Pretty sure its 64bit version. I'm meticulous about things like that. Besides, it usually works without hitch. My guess is it was a bad encode. I'll be going over there tonight to play some more. I also had the thought, that people that upload and encode probably run with their computers overclocked as much as possible. If it were a bad overclock, bugs like that would occur.
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