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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. March 2010 @ 07:34 |
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Originally posted by FredBun:
I took a look at most of those fans, even watched the ones on ytube, LOL, I could not last 2 minutes with one of those, it reminded me of sitting in a C-130 cargo space at take off, I cannot fathom how people can take that in thier home.
My printer just failed the other day, a all in one brother bought back in 2003, not bad for 99 bucks, the whole family used it regularly, bucks well spent.
Fred,
my last 3 Laser Printers have been Brothers. I have an HL-1240 as my printer, my oldest one. 12 ppm! Still works beautifully after all these years. I've had it since 2004. A bit slow, but very dependable!
Those Fans? You know my hearing Fred. They would damage my hearing. I wouldn't take one if they were giving them away for free, with the guarantee of a 8GHz overclock if I used one! No thank you! Too Frikin loud and harsh!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Senior Member
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2. March 2010 @ 08:10 |
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Amen Russ
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2. March 2010 @ 12:41 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
On the cooler fan, you have to keep in mind that if the air goes through the cooler too fast it doesn't collect as much heat. If the air is dry, you get almost no evaporative cooling at all. Look at my speeds. I'm overclocked to 3.5GHz and my CPU volts are at max, 1.424v. The last time I saw 1700 RPM on the CPU fan was while running OCCT. Max RPM is 2200 for the fan @40 CFM. It rarely goes over 1500 RPM, which is a lot less than 40 CFM! And it's only a 92mm fan! The CPU temp has never been a problem, only the Northbridge, which the 40 CFM 800 RPM Scythe side cover lower fan and moving the video card, took care of.
Best Regards,
Russ
Never really thought about it like that. Though you have posted that before. I think about heat/cold at the molecular level. When a substance or object is hot, its molecules are moving around really quickly. When a substance is cold, its usually not moving much at all. Depending on substance and how cold. When a fan is blowing at a heat sink, the cool air particles are slamming into the heat sink, causing the quick (hot)moving molecules to slow. With more pressure, becomes more cooling and more rapid. The hot heat sink molecules however heat the air. Which needs to be evacuated. Hence needing very good exhaust. ;)
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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2. March 2010 @ 13:10 |
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HDD's don't care what their physical orientation is, right? I'm considering turning my tower on it's side (so it fits under the bed) for use as a server, but before I do that I wanted make sure I don't endanger the data.
TIA,
redmw
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2. March 2010 @ 13:54 |
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Russ: It's true, but that doesn't mean a cooler performs worse at a lower speed, it just means there's no additional gain to a greater fan speed, as you're limited by how fast the heat is being removed from the CPU by the heatsink. Generally, this occurs with 120mm tower coolers with 120mm fans around 1600rpm. Beyond this point, extra CFM is getting one or two celsius off tops. The clue is the temperature of the heatsink itself. If the heatsink's warm, it's doing its job, and you can increase its performanced by raising fan speed. If it's cold, then if you get bad temps, it's not been fitted properly. If temps are fine, then your airflow is either optimal or excessive.
Maw: No, there's no danger to running HDDs on their side, upside down or whatever.
As for the fans argument, I thought Omega was after less noise though, rather than better temps? (And yes, 1900rpm slipstreams are overkill for CPU coolers, not only that they are high volume, very low pressure. and thus not really suitable for heatsinks. If you want a better CPU cooler fan you should be buying an S-Flex, not a slipstream. Slipstream fans are good for airflow, but not for the pressure required to push air through the fins of a cooler. I use 1900rpm ones because four GPUs produce a lot of ambient heat, which caused excessive chipset temperatures. Now I have an i5 and there is no chipset, however, I rarely find I use them at full speed, so I might stick some resistance cables on there.
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2. March 2010 @ 14:16 |
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I'm after a VERY happy medium. I want a high overclock, while maintaining the best silence for that overclock. This is obviously something I'm gonna have to trial and error myself. Cause who knows how hot, or how fast this CPU can go yet. It didn't take any effort at all hitting a stable 3.8Ghz. Temperature difference is negligible. I guess what I have to do, is go for the gold first(High overclock), and see how hot she gets. Then I can determine how much more air I need or rather don't need ;)
I've been reluctant to play, since my secondary is down for the time being. Main factor being it needs a reliable Hard drive. I'm clearing up one of my WD1001FALS drives. I know those work quite nicely for OS discs. In fact, they behave similarly to Velociraptor. Anybody see the new drive on newegg :D
WD1002FAEX
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. March 2010 @ 14:24 |
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Yeah the EX models are the 64MB Cache S-ATA 3 drives.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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2. March 2010 @ 14:31 |
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It's a shame about the 2Tb drive costing so much. If it were only twice the cost, maybe slightly more than twice the cost, I might actually consider getting one. But at 300% markup from WD1001FALS, thats ridiculous if you ask me. But, we pay for convenience don't we LOL! And for an HTPC, a 2Tb drive is excellent for storage, where a person only has space for 1 drive. Since Sata 3 drives are coming out, maybe that will drive the cost down at least a little. Seems like it didn't take the WD1001FALS long to come down. But time passes very quickly for me :p
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136456
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. March 2010 @ 14:33
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. March 2010 @ 14:33 |
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Er, by 300% you mean 150%.... It's $120 versus $300...
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. March 2010 @ 14:36 |
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WD1001FALS is 99.99, WD2001FASS is 300$. at 3 times the cost. If WD1001FALS is 100%, that would make WD2001FASS 300% there of. Is my math that rusty LOL!
Unless 200$ is 100% more, and 300$ is 200% more. Well...perhaps I need more coffee LOL!!!
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. March 2010 @ 14:37
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. March 2010 @ 15:14 |
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I'm comparing to the WD1002FAEX, which is $120, since that is the like-for-like of the WD2001FASS - there is no 32MB cache S-ATA 2 2TB drive in the WD Black series.
Also, 300% more does not mean 300% of :P
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. March 2010 @ 15:14
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. March 2010 @ 15:37 |
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Well, I'd make a lousy math tutor :p
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2. March 2010 @ 17:52 |
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Ah hah! I'm noticing now that 1900 Rpms is more bearable. I guess it simply needed to acclimate longer. Right now I'm 80% of load, and holding 37-38C. Not bad eh!
You know, I imagine not many people have their tower only 1.5Ft from their head LOL! I imagine that's a factor within itself :p
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2. March 2010 @ 19:23 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Russ: It's true, but that doesn't mean a cooler performs worse at a lower speed, it just means there's no additional gain to a greater fan speed, as you're limited by how fast the heat is being removed from the CPU by the heatsink. Generally, this occurs with 120mm tower coolers with 120mm fans around 1600rpm. Beyond this point, extra CFM is getting one or two celsius off tops. The clue is the temperature of the heatsink itself. If the heatsink's warm, it's doing its job, and you can increase its performanced by raising fan speed. If it's cold, then if you get bad temps, it's not been fitted properly. If temps are fine, then your airflow is either optimal or excessive.
Maw: No, there's no danger to running HDDs on their side, upside down or whatever.
As for the fans argument, I thought Omega was after less noise though, rather than better temps? (And yes, 1900rpm slipstreams are overkill for CPU coolers, not only that they are high volume, very low pressure. and thus not really suitable for heatsinks. If you want a better CPU cooler fan you should be buying an S-Flex, not a slipstream. Slipstream fans are good for airflow, but not for the pressure required to push air through the fins of a cooler. I use 1900rpm ones because four GPUs produce a lot of ambient heat, which caused excessive chipset temperatures. Now I have an i5 and there is no chipset, however, I rarely find I use them at full speed, so I might stick some resistance cables on there.
Sam,
Quote:
It's true, but that doesn't mean a cooler performs worse at a lower speed, it just means there's no additional gain to a greater fan speed, as you're limited by how fast the heat is being removed from the CPU by the heatsink.
Yes and no! It's more about the density of the air, and the speed at which it moves through the cooler. The higher the altitude, the slower (to a point) the air needs to move to be effective. Places like Denver, where the altitude goes up over 12,000 feet, computers run very warm. So do cars! It's the air density. It was totally amazing to me the see a car dealer selling me a kit to lower the cooling fan speeds. I had a Fiero at the time and the breeze from the cooling fan would part your hair! It had a better than 20", 7 blade fan driven by a 1/16th HP DC motor. Slow the fan down and the car wouldn't overheat.
It's the same principle with CPU fans! While it can be the coolers ability to remove heat, usually it's not how fast the heat is being removed by the cooler, it's how much heat the air can pick up at a given speed going through the CPU cooler efficiently. The problem get's compounded by a lot of case's inability to have decent airflow. It doesn't do a lot of good to remove the heat from the CPU if you can't get all of that heat out of the case. As you can well see by the results I posted, I have no problem either cooling the CPU or getting the hot air out of the case. It's not like it was always that way, because I spent many months experimenting with the airflow, it's direction, different fans, speeds, and fan location, etc.
The sad part is, each computer is different. Different Video cards, HDDs, and so on. Every time you change something inside the case, all that experimenting and learning go right out the window. With mine, I see no problem using my F/64-Pro with the Phenom II x4 955BE. The airflow profile is exactly the same, so it should work the same. The airflow in the case won't change at all, and it's known to be a very cool running chip, at least with the C3 stepping it is. I'm only planning on a daily 3.8GHz anyway, which should be between 1.242 and 1.388v. I'm not even interested in seeing if it will go above 4.0GHz. My E-Penis days are over! ROFL!
I look at it this way. I'm running my 95w Quad CPU, cooler today, than I could run my 65w Athlon x2 7750 just 6 or so months ago, and the 7750 was also a cool running chip! I expect the 955BE to work just fine. If it doesn't, I'll be the first to admit I was wrong. Even then I don't think I'll need anything like a Tuniq Tower 120 or a TRU-E. Something more like this.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835207004
Not too much bigger than the F/64, with more surface area and a fourth heatpipe. It should do the job if the F/64 won't, and the fan can be controlled through the controller, by the motherboard set to voltage just like the Silverstones could. We'll see! :)
As far as Kevin wanting to make it quieter, I think he bought all three Scythe fans. 800/40CFM, 1200/68CFM and 1900/88CFM. Looks to me like he isn't taking any chances, and covering all his bets! LOL!!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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2. March 2010 @ 20:16 |
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Oman7,
Quote:
I guess what I have to do, is go for the gold first(High overclock), and see how hot she gets. Then I can determine how much more air I need or rather don't need ;)
Let me ask you a question! I'm willing to bet that you are not planning a daily 4.0+GHz runner. Yours runs very good at 3.8GHz, so why push it higher. I ruined a very good E6750 that way. I had it running beautiful at 3.8GHz, but I had to be like so many others and get it to 4.0GHz. E-Penis again! Good for your EGO, but not worth a lot in terms of overall every day performance. I decided on 3.8GHz based on everything I've read and friends who have 955BE/C3s already overclocked. The general consensus is 3.8GHz is the sweet spot with most 955BEs. Some have even said that the benchmarks don't show enough percentage of improvement from 3.8 to 3.9GHz to be worth it, and it takes silly volts to get much beyond 4.0GHz. Besides, for me, I can't even afford to buy it yet, so when I do get it why would I want to risk damaging it and having to wait another 2 or 3 months to be able to save up for a new one. 3.8 will do just fine!
Think about that!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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3. March 2010 @ 00:16 |
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.......Ok. I thought about it. I want 4+Ghz LOL! If I plan on running BD rebuilder, I'd like to get the most out of the encode times. Though no doubt I'll be doing it during my sleeping hours regardless. I more or less just like learning this stuff. I'm better at hands on kind of stuff. A lot of whats explained about OC'ing goes over my head. But when I begin experimenting myself, it becomes clear.
No, I didn't get all 3 fans. Just the 1200 and the 1900. I have a feeling that 800 just won't quite cut it. 1200 will probably do it, and I've heard how quiet that is. At least on the Tuniqs fan. The scythe will probably be at least slightly different.
Believe me, I won't fry my CPU. While I don't consider myself expert, I'll know what her limit is before killing it LOL!
I think I have plenty of exhaust russ. The top side fan blows upward, and it always feels pretty cool. The rear 140 might need upgrading though. It blows some semi warm air out. Not sure how the HAF's stock 140 rates compared to after market fans...
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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3. March 2010 @ 01:52 |
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Thanks sam.
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3. March 2010 @ 08:07 |
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red maw, i have been reading alot of reviews and 4.3 on air for the 930 seems to be the clocks being achived!
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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3. March 2010 @ 14:06 |
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That's a decent OC, a lot better then what I've been hearing. Thanks for info.
Unfortunately, or fortunately, my reasons to upgrade, apart from getting off this "antique" hardware, vanished once I got serious about it. The noise/vibration problem appears to be gone along with the instability one. Hasn't crashed once in ~2 weeks, something I haven't seen in around 6 months lol. If the current trend holds for another 2 weeks I'll see if it can OC without causing stability problems.
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3. March 2010 @ 14:27 |
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To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. March 2010 @ 14:40
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. March 2010 @ 19:55 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
So what do you guys think of this fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835129248
Its getting good reviews, seems to be quiet and aesthetically pleasing. My current 140mm fan in the rear of HAF 932 runs at 750Rpms. The one in question is silent and runs around 1,000 while 54.7cfm.
Hmmm, now i'm looking at the specs on the Coolermaster site, and it looks like their stock fan may be better...
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=2810
So my best bet may be to run the rear fan to a molex connection, forcing it to full Rpms. Couldn't hurt to try it :p
GREAT fan buddy!!! I has a few of them and love 'em!!! ;) (the AEROCOOL)
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3. March 2010 @ 20:38 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
So what do you guys think of this fan
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835129248
Its getting good reviews, seems to be quiet and aesthetically pleasing. My current 140mm fan in the rear of HAF 932 runs at 750Rpms. The one in question is silent and runs around 1,000 while 54.7cfm.
Hmmm, now i'm looking at the specs on the Coolermaster site, and it looks like their stock fan may be better...
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=2810
So my best bet may be to run the rear fan to a molex connection, forcing it to full Rpms. Couldn't hurt to try it :p
Oman7,
The AeroCool is a piece of junk! Expensive junk! It doesn't move close to the amount of air advertised, and it's no where near as quiet as claimed. The blades eventually fracture at the hub as the plastic gets more brittle with heat and age, and break because of the extreme angle they come away from the hub at at. I've seen two of them and you can already see cracks developing on the hub. One was 10 bladed because it lost the 11th! just another pretty face that doesn't do as advertised! Blue lights and a flashy chrome finish on the blades do not make a fan good! Lying about it's specs don't either!
My 1200 rpm 53.24 cfm 120mm Silverstone FN-121 is far superior to it in airflow performance, and is much quieter, even though it's 120mm. Quieter even than the 26.6dBA advertised. It's blade design is far superior to the AeroCool's
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. March 2010 @ 20:38 |
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I assume you've got the rear 140 in the HAF on auto control, as the speed of the fan is 1000-1050rpm normally.
Also Russ, I have recommended several Aerocool Streamliners as they are exceptionally reliable. My mate Nick's radiator had of those 2 fans exposed. We were forever prodding our fingers at them, messing around, and through all of it they were still working perfectly the last time I saw him, despite them being at least 3 years old.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. March 2010 @ 20:41
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. March 2010 @ 21:59 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Oman7,
The AeroCool is a piece of junk! Expensive junk! It doesn't move close to the amount of air advertised, and it's no where near as quiet as claimed. The blades eventually fracture at the hub as the plastic gets more brittle with heat and age, and break because of the extreme angle they come away from the hub at at. I've seen two of them and you can already see cracks developing on the hub. One was 10 bladed because it lost the 11th! just another pretty face that doesn't do as advertised! Blue lights and a flashy chrome finish on the blades do not make a fan good! Lying about it's specs don't either!
My 1200 rpm 53.24 cfm 120mm Silverstone FN-121 is far superior to it in airflow performance, and is much quieter, even though it's 120mm. Quieter even than the 26.6dBA advertised. It's blade design is far superior to the AeroCool's
Russ
Fffff Me Russ... posts like that upset me greatly. Because you've seen one or two fans have issues doesn't make the fan a PIECE OF JUNK!!!! I have 3-4 running in my case right now and have been for over a year now... they are fantastic and the quietest fans I've messed with that push that amount of air. ;) I don't have any Silverstones and at this point there's NO need to buy any. :p
I also have a few CM fans and they do the job just fine.
I'm sorry Russ but it just seems if ONE person has an issue with a component, whatever it might be then it's a POS!!! Sammy has defended that fan before and I actually bought a few by his recommendation. DON'T tell anyone tho... :p
I have seen a few things that we all agree on and Thermaltake fans are lacking to say the least... well at least the ones that I"ve used. ;)
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3. March 2010 @ 22:27 |
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Fact is, even the cheapest fans don't lose blades unless they're damaged. Apart from it being a health and safety risk, it just can't happen, scientifically, unless the plastic manufacture is absurdly bad, in which case you'd notice immediately when you got the fan. Therefore, the Aerocool fan which Russ had must have been damaged. Likewise, the Silverstone fan I had that snapped a blade was me breaking it, not faulty manufacture. I'm still unsure on the one that started billowing smoke. While it wasn't run in its correct environment, the other two fans I used in the same way didn't do the same.
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