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Not all Memorex suck / Questions for you / etc
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Senior Member
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24. February 2006 @ 12:25 |
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People, we are wasting our time here. This is an obvious bait tactic designed to get everyone fired up. I fell for it because JoeRyan seems intelligent. I was just trying to pursuade it that CMCs are junk for whatever destructive or non-destructive test reason. This person just wants an argument. I did a search of your name, heres what i found. Looks like you tried to "help" someone once here in this thread by telling them its the firmware again, not the discs. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/48307
I bet that poor guy is still trying to get crap memorex media to burn and work for him. ARE you HELPING?? That guy is still waiting. You dont seem to be interested in helping him anymore, now that he listened to you and still has problems. See what i mean? Back in 2003 you tried to help someone with suggestions. Once..
The rest of your posts have been here. Must have been too busy in your lab batch testing to do any real help here?
Its all well and good to say CMC is a quality plant producing quality discs. Now how do ppl get these things to burn properly and keep for more than 6 months as Mort81, myself and many others have stated??? Unless you have the answer to that, and this answer will work for everyone, you sir or madam are just arguing, and not helping. Im not going to respond to this anymore even though i tried to not respond this time. Have fun telling ppl CMC is quality stuff. In the mean time, HELP someone with your newfound status as miracle worker by getting these discs to work and keep for many years.
Im thru, no more false information spread will bait me. You go ahead and say we dont even need electricity to burn discs, just use a magnafying glass and have real steady hands..
Die CMC Mag!!! |
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mousejean
Newbie
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24. February 2006 @ 15:11 |
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I've been following this thread and wonder if anyone can tell me about this disc. Its called Playo and its made by advance media limited. disc reads Mfg. {AML]--- Media Type [002] Disc identifier: [DVD+R - :AML-002-000]
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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24. February 2006 @ 15:17 |
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Mouse
Your Playo disc seems to be another alias for Mr. DVD that I came across:
Nero CD-DVD Speed: Disc Info
Basic Information
Disc Type: : DVD+R
Book Type : DVD+R
Manufacturer: : unknown
MID : AML 002 (000)
AML seems to be a very close cousin of CMC Mag.
 Piss me off, and I Will ignore You!This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 24. February 2006 @ 15:19
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mousejean
Newbie
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24. February 2006 @ 15:34 |
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Needless to say I don't know how long they will be readable but they burn just fine in my lite-on SHW-1635S-YSOR and have excellent picture on my APEX stand alone player. Besides, at 4.99/50 at staples this week my son and I bought 20 50pks. Guess we will see what happens down the road.
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JoeRyan
Senior Member
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25. February 2006 @ 06:51 |
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The customer MaxBurn referred to had an LG drive that did not have firmware that recognized the Prodisc MID code for DVD-RW. If the write strategy is incorrect, information written to the ADIP can be so illegible that no other drive, even one that does recognize the code, may be able to erase the disc enough to reuse it. He may have updated his firmware since then or bought other discs.
A second problem may be corruption due to conflicts in packet-writing software. This can happen when a disc formatted on one computer with Ahead InCD is placed into a second computer with Roxio DirectCD, or vice versa. Some computers with autostart enabled can have the installed packet-writing software begin to update the disc before realizing that the disc is formatted with different software. In such a case, the file structure on the original is damaged enough that the disc is now illegible. Since the disc is manufactured with phase change material, a factory initializer than restore it; but that is not worth the effort.
If every disc in a spindle immediately fails on a drive, chances are great that the disc is incompatible. There is always a chance that the media are of terrible quality; but that is a lesser likelihood and, according to Occam's Razor, not a better explanation.
Discs that initially work but fail over time may have unstable dye. Check I14H and compare the results to R14H. If both have decreased below the DVD Forum spec and the I3/I14 ratio has also deteriorated, then the fault lies in the dye. If radial and tangential tilt measurements are off (tangential push pull signals are evidence of that), then the cause is more likely to be related to unstable bonding adhesive rather than the dye. If you cannot check these criteria, send the unplayable discs back to the manufacturer and ask for answers why they no longer play.
I hope this helps.
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Senior Member
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25. February 2006 @ 08:22 |
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@mousejean,
Please keep us informed as to the status of how these disks hold up over time. Kinda curious myself asto the archival cpabilities of various disks. I've had real problems with CMC and Matrix media deteriorating over time. At first they played perfectly on all of my standalone players, but after 6 months to a year don't play well or even at all.
Appreciate the feedback.
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blancpino
Newbie
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25. February 2006 @ 14:16 |
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how do you distinguish between fake and real taiyo yuden if the media code is the same?
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Senior Member
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25. February 2006 @ 14:24 |
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Ok joeryan in an effort to smooth things over as you seem to have gotten more than one member riled,
Quote:
Discs that initially work but fail over time may have unstable dye. Check I14H and compare the results to R14H. If both have decreased below the DVD Forum spec and the I3/I14 ratio has also deteriorated, then the fault lies in the dye. If radial and tangential tilt measurements are off (tangential push pull signals are evidence of that), then the cause is more likely to be related to unstable bonding adhesive rather than the dye. If you cannot check these criteria,
We seem to have been agreeing all along. I called it dye rot, but yes, it could be the bonding adhesives also. The point is, if a company fu*ks up either the dye or the bonding, the resulting problem looks like dye rot to the un-informed. Does it really matter if it was the dye rotting or the adhesive? as its TOO LATE for that data/movie now. Data dieing over time, dye rot is one way to describe the results for the disc. Bonding lifting, warping of disc, cross material contamination, disc thickness, material used, manufacturing misprocess, all these things come in to play. And on the average, cheaper manufactures can sell this stuff cheaper because they are using cheaper labor, materials, machinery, etc.. Put a bunch of rotten apples in a barrel, and i wouldnt want to drink that stuff. Neither do our drives for whatever way of describing it.
You are knowledgeable about this, so i ask that you put that knowledge to work here by helping ppl. Your last reply was excellent. Non-inflamitory, and informative. We can have a reasonable argument, but this thread almost got into a flame war. and for what? Because you did not want to change your belief that CMC is not a quality plant. Maybe it is, but something is going on when just about everyone has a problem with this media. Yes, it could be that no drive has the firmware correct. But really, the engineers at pioneer, benq, LG, liteon, etc.. None of them could figure it out, on this media??? So, it doesnt matter what the real reason for cheap media not working properly, unless you have the answer to getting it to work for everybody. If so, i suggest you quietly qit your current job, and get hired on at memorex media division.. You could be very rich if you wanted to be.
Check out creaky's reply Quote:
virtually all the posts i (and other ppl) comment on recommend ppl update their burners' firmware (if it's not already up to date), and guess what, as i've commented in previous examples, the subpar media is nearly always the thing that's sat there shuffling it's feet awkwardly when all necessary tweaks have been done, ie when a system/settings are as near to correct as can be; yet still the subpar media is the one thing that doesn't (still) work in most cases. funny that.
Hes poured thru more logs than you would care to look at in a lifetime. This guy knows what he is talking about from seeing REAL life examples. So really, by holding that carrot out to the cheap media users that there is some way to use this stuff, is doing ppl a dis-service if you are trying to help. Again, unless you have the answer, i will continue to recommend Verbatim, and Taiyo Yuden discs, and tell ppl to run from CMC like the plague. I think i will help more ppl with that advice than by saying "use CMC, its great, just have up2date firmware and a compatible drive".. How many logs do you think got fixed with an answer like that??
Im trying to hold out the peace pipe here JoeRyan. You seem like you are intelligent, so just learn how to inform without inflaming and you will be fine here. We could all learn something, and i will even listen to you, if what you are saying will help in some way. Im not mad or upset, i just didnt want to get dragged down in some pointless argument. Its been done to me, and others here too many times, and its never a lot of fun. Takes something out of you, defending practices that have helped thousands, against newcomers who say we are wrong, they are right. By saying CMC is a quality plant, you say cheap media is not the problem, firmware, or bonding, or something else is.. Well, by eliminating CMC i also eliminated my data life problem. Yes, verb or tys can have a bad disc or two once in a while. Kinda like finding a 4 leaf clover though. Rare, very rare.
I still stand by my statement CMC is crap media. It screwed me over with the loss of hundreds of backups.. But thats just my opinion. You dont have to do anything i say. Im crazy, and i like it as an exclusive club. Get too many crazys out there and then normal becomes crazy.. See, only a nut could think of something like that..
Die CMC Mag!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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25. February 2006 @ 14:27 |
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@blancpino
If you read the following thread, docTY explains everything you need to know about TY media, including how to spot the fake ones.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/296925
@Max,
Can I join your crazy club? I'll wash your car, I' ll walk your dog...:~)!
Piss me off, and I Will ignore You!
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Senior Member
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25. February 2006 @ 14:33 |
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@blancopino
That doc ty thread is a good one. I also asked that question in the only tread i started here.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/234049
I was wondering why they didnt fake the media codes also along with the MID code.
That Doc, hes great.
@cyprusrom,
You look at Nero burn logs, so you already qualify as crazy. :)
Die CMC Mag!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. February 2006 @ 02:44 |
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Quote:
That Doc, hes great.
why thank you kind sir, i'm not gonna add any more to this thread as i've been following it and can see it's been "handled" :)
docTY
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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Senior Member
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26. February 2006 @ 12:15 |
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Hi Doc,
JoeRyan seems to have moved over to this thread now, and honestly i thought him and asji were the same person once and replied to the wrong one as i had both threads up.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/32/262544
same type of arguing tactic used by both clothed as science-speak.
Disagreeing is ok, if real life situations back you up in your argument. And as i was trying to say, if following their advice results in more harm than good, stop giving that advice out, as we regular AD members here to help, will be stuck with the mess they leave behind.
I dont know why i keep trying. Maybe they will listen to you doc. Your 666 could scare them, i mean after all, who knows better about burning than the devil?? LOL.. I had to edit this to put in that last joke there.. :)
Die CMC Mag!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2006 @ 12:21
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. February 2006 @ 12:33 |
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Yes sad but true. I don't extend the olive branch to him because I couldn't win a flame war. I do so because I simply don't need the stress. I don't think he's a bad guy, he's just very set in his ways. As you said before MaxBurn, "I log into AD to help people, not to argue." I couldn't agree more. JoeRyan will win over his fair share of people with his excellent grammar, large vocabulary and trendy (yet hollow) logic, but that's their problem. I'm not going to argue with him or anyone else. If people choose to use CMC Mag, so be it. If they ignore all the stickies, advice from experts, and media reviews, so be it. There is no point in attempting to dissuade people like him. That's not so much a put down of him, as it is an observation of stubborn people in general. There's no point of DocTY or anybody else trying to tell him otherwise, it'd make no difference.
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Gringle
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. February 2006 @ 12:57 |
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I'd question; the excellent grammar; whilst, agreeing with, the hollow logic.[?]
'part from thet....'nice one max'
regards gringle.
El gringle..
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Senior Member
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26. February 2006 @ 13:05 |
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You are right tokijin, im a sucker when it comes to trying to help someone. I am attempting to go back to the Nero logs where i can do some good. Just to off-set the damage these ppl are doing here. They are not violating forum rules so far, but i did ask them to help ppl. This seems to be more about attention grabbing than helping. Notice how those questions i ask are always deflected with some new science speak? And yes, Doc is a busy guy. I shouldnt divert him on a fools errand.
ARE you HELPING??
that one never seems to get answered.
ARE you HELPING??
ARE you HELPING??
ARE you HELPING??
I ask myself that one, and try to answer YES.
Now i gotta go releave some stress. Been invited to a party, and im going.. :)
Die CMC Mag!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. February 2006 @ 13:21 |
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Yeah I've got mid-terms, spring break (a wild adventure or two, maybe I'll right a media guide- God I need to get out more often), several PS2 games/movies to backup, noobs to help, stuff to learn, torrentleech ratio built up and finally free of wait times, and some highly anticipated games to backup like Shadow Hearts 3 and Suikoden V. Arguing with people on AD is not on the list. Here's a scan of Drakengard 2 I just backed up. Aside from the hideous deficiencies of my Sony DRU-810A (no PI/PO scanning), and the fact it's a quick scan, it's still not bad.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2006 @ 13:22
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Member
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26. February 2006 @ 13:44 |
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Quote:
Aside from the hideous deficiencies of my Sony DRU-810A (no PI/PO scanning), and the fact it's a quick scan, it's still not bad.
Ya with your drive not reading PIF which Nero CD/DVD Speed quality score is based on, you'll always get the 100%.
really need those PIF readings ^ ^
As for the flaming talk which seems to get mentioned at the drop of a hat these days (been a member here for 2 year, worse now)
Lets all just express our opinions and be happy with that, we don't need to change the world with them or resort to name calling if someone disagree's with your view.
This isn't aimed at anyone in particular but ego's certainly seem to play a part.
Lets keep it fun, even if we differ in opinion.
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Senior Member
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26. February 2006 @ 19:23 |
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Im cool. Its not egos but ideas that are being confronted. Thats all it is for me. If ashj or joeryan, or luckepenny any of them come up with good ideas that i can use, ill use them. Im not saying i know it all by far, remember im the crazy one.
I just want to help people with problems, and learn something, not get in to semantics about something pointless, and opinionated. We all have them, opinions that is. Everyone is entitled to their own and to express them.
My buddies are the ones i see working along side me in Nero logs, or media forums. guiding ppl to successful burns. We work as a team, each looking to see if the other missed something, or found something. Good ppl working for free to help complete strangers. Yes, im proud to call them my buddies. I havent noticed any theorist/debaters in these forums for some strange reason. Maybe because ppl want help, not theories, compassion, not aloft superior being attitude, ive got a secret types. Help is what these ppl are seeking. Join the AD community and help someone. It doesnt matter how long youve been a member here. How many ppl have you helped? Thats my question.
Now ashj ive seen some of your posts, and you do try to help occasionally. So please dont take this personal, im just telling it the way i see it. Ppl who come in here to help others have my support. Ppl who come in here just to argue, or show off about something, and cause problems for many, dont have my support. Thats all.
Die CMC Mag!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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26. February 2006 @ 20:29 |
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Max,
I guess you couldn't have said it better:
Quote:
I havent noticed any theorist/debaters in these forums for some strange reason. Maybe because ppl want help, not theories, compassion, not aloft superior being attitude, ive got a secret types.
People that come to the forum having problems with the burn, they come asking "How did you do it" or, "how did you make it work for yourself", and "what should I do". And then you tell them, I updated my firmware, dropped the CMG Mag media, and got myself some quality discs. No one wants to know how the dye could be azo, cyanine, dipyrromethene or whatever, sputtered using some sort of fancy mechanism. All they want to know is "Why I cannot burn?" .They don't want theories, charts or comparisons, they just want to know what works for the majority of the people that are happy burners. They want facts of life, and the fact is, CMC just doesn't cut it!! I wonder, what would someone say, when they come to the Nero forum complaining about how they wasted half of a spindle of Memorex, trying to burn a simple DVD, with their brand new bought DVD burner. What would they say when you tell them something like this:
To be able to successfully burn your DVDs, first you must learn some basics about DVD media:
Quote:
How are DVD-R and DVD+R discs made? by http://www.osta.org/technology/dvdqa/dvdqa13.htm
The first step in manufacturing a DVD-R or DVD+R disc is to fabricate the polycarbonate plastic substrates (incorporating the spiral groove and land pre-pits) using an injection molding process. The dye is then applied using spin coating and the metal layers by means of DC sputtering. After both sides of the disc are completed they are bonded together using a hot melt, UV cationic or free radical process. Additional decoration or printable layers are typically applied using screen printing methods. A DVD-R (General) disc undergoes a further manufacturing step in which a specialized computer DVD recorder is used to ?prewrite? information in the Control Data Zone of its Lead-in Area to inhibit direct copying of prerecorded DVD-Video discs encrypted with the Content Scrambling System (CSS). Apart from this, and some minor differences in the configuration of the molding stamper used to create the substrates, the process for manufacturing DVD-R and DVD+R discs is virtually identical.
I think they might say "Yeah, that's what I can find on Google, but I don't care, all I want is to be able to burn my DVD and watch it on my TV. That's why I signed up with this forum, not to get a science lesson! So help me, or let someone else do it!"
Piss me off, and I Will ignore You!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. February 2006 @ 20:38
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Member
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27. February 2006 @ 00:06 |
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@ Maxburn
Quote:
JoeRyan seems to have moved over to this thread now, and honestly i thought him and asji were the same person once and replied to the
Shows you i need to pay more attention, its appears that you were actually talking about me in this thread?, correct me if I'm wrong (i can't find a member called Asji) .....mistakenly I may add. I'm ashj no one else.
I try to back up my statements with media scans which have stood up to 90+ quality around/over 2 years, indeed my full collection is scaning very nicely.
Yes, ditto, I've read some of your posts too Maxburn, and you try to help occasionlly as well.
I'd return the favour and use your advice, if you come up with anything that I thought would help me :)
I can post loads more, I guess thats why I spot trouble with media early , as I am always evaluating its performance through batch scans.
Just now Verbatim (Taiyo Yuden TYG02 X8 DVD-R) are shaping up real good with no additional PIF TT, whereas Taiyo Yuden DVD+R X16 Printables (YUDEN000 T03) are'nt.
Yes I try to help when I pop on here, full time job(teaching) and all, but its not just the amount of people you help, thats important...
its the way we conduct ourselves when we disagree with someone that defines us.
I certainly dont need anyone else to back up my opinions, I'm perfectly capable of making an observation on my own and standing up for myself.
If someone disagrees with me, good luck to him/her.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. February 2006 @ 01:04
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. February 2006 @ 01:03 |
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This whole thread is now pointless. I see no further point in keeping it open. If we can't shut our yaps about egos, debates, and Media, someone needs to shut us the hell up, myself included. Hey DDP or Creaky about closing this one down. It's a flame war waiting to happen.
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Member
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27. February 2006 @ 01:10 |
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Well I've not seen anyone else mention flamewar,
and you certainly won't get any from me, I prefer discussion.
just folks giving their opinion which happens to differ.
Its a bad day if we can't deal with that on a forum.
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Senior Member
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27. February 2006 @ 06:24 |
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Yes, ashj i mistyped your name. It wasnt intentional. I probably misspelled a few words too. You guys go ahead and say what you want, im not going to fuel this one any longer.
My suggestion to ppl who want successful burns:
Burn at 4x on Good media
Have updated firmware/software
Dont multi-task while burning
Defragment HD often
Now i probably wont see you guys, as im going to go help ppl with burn problems in the Nero forum. Words over there produce fixes for ppl when we say the right words. You stay here and debate until you guys are blue in the face. Nothing has changed for me, i havent learned a single useful thing from these scientist. Im too dis-organized to be a real scientist. And your data isnt published in the scientific journals i read.. :)
Peace everyone. Good luck burning. Watch out for tangential radial spin off in the x and y axis,, LOL
Die CMC Mag!!!
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Member
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27. February 2006 @ 10:36 |
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Thats good advice maxburn,
pretty much the same thing I say to people, with the scan's thrown in to keep tabs on their collection.
* If you had performed batch scans on your collection of back ups then perhaps this Quote:
I still stand by my statement CMC is crap media. It screwed me over with the loss of hundreds of backups..
would'nt have happened or at least you'd have spotted the deterioration....no science there, just common sense.
Don't worry maxburn, you won't be overburdened with me, I don't usually post a lot, I tend to have a lot of people to help, in class.
their usually very good listeners too.
Peace be with you all.
amen.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. February 2006 @ 02:10
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Gringle
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. February 2006 @ 08:03 |
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Velly old oillintelly martial art saying
"The first opponent a good 'teacher' will teach his pupils' against;
is his-self
Nice one Max :)
el G
El gringle..
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. February 2006 @ 08:05
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