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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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spamual
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19. October 2008 @ 16:52 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The P5Q system was the only one that crashed for any great length, but it was also the only one with an ATI video card, draw your own conclusions...
(fanboy still on)
thousands of people on OcUK have the P5Q, and on OcUK, this is the first gen where only ASUS is being recomended by everyone for a chipset (P45)
what was the actual problem with the system?
i know people whos corsairs have blown up, but i havent stopped recomending them :)
sorry sam, im still in fanboy mode :D
hehe.
ooo also sam, can we use the labs for electronics projects, i need their soldering iron, im gonna be linking multiple fans to one header, and i need to sleave alot of things, including my PSU, you think they will let me?
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. October 2008 @ 17:00 |
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I think so, depends on the scale of the project.
As for the P5Q system I don't think they're bad either, but that obviously is a bit weird.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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19. October 2008 @ 17:19 |
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What's a bit weird Sam? Were you talking about the crash? You said that before crashing it ran for 7 hours straight - and you liked the graphics quality the best. (I can stand a crash once every 7 hours lol)
Ok Shaff, you LOVE the new board. I like the crossfire capability.
And with THAT board, we're BACK to boozer's cpu - the 6750.
And yeah, I'm gonna get that freezer 7 pro. So, regarding the new style of memory you're recommending - what brand - got a newegg link for me?
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. October 2008 @ 17:26 |
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It ran for a few hours, but a system shouldn't crash for no reason after a few hours, it should take days.
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spamual
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19. October 2008 @ 17:30 |
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harvrdguy
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19. October 2008 @ 18:43 |
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Yeah, I guess you're right - shouldn't really crash like that - but as scientists we really cannot draw any conclusions from one occurrence like that - weird I would agree.
Shaff, an extra $7 won't make any difference so I'll get the better memory - you like the Geil better than the Kingston I see. Also, I notice we've moved up to DDR800 with the Asus board, whereas before we were going to use DDR667. I know the 800 is faster - I use DDR400 now on my p4 - what does the 800 actually mean - clock speed?
Hey, check this out: I can get a 3870 for $70!!!
powercolor 3870 for $99.99 with $30 mail-in rebate = $69.99!!
Ain't that a friggin beauty for $70!!! (I always get the rebates and they always eventually arrive, so other than the free game, that's $70 versus $65 for the 4670.)
Anandtech shows 10 more fps - almost 30% more power at high res for $5!
-Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. October 2008 @ 18:48
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. October 2008 @ 19:13 |
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If you want all the 3870's crappy driver bugs, be my guest.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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19. October 2008 @ 19:20 |
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Oh yeah, that was the board that gave you grief!! I forgot about that!! No, you're right - forget it. No way!!
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spamual
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19. October 2008 @ 19:20 |
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u hated urs that much sam? lool
i wonder if the new drivers are good for them, if so, the 3870 is a beat for $70, infact thats how much WE pay for it but with a £.
:(
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harvrdguy
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19. October 2008 @ 19:23 |
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I'm going to push myself to a 4870 if I don't watch out - especially since estuansis just got his second one. I'm looking at the 4850s right now.
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spamual
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19. October 2008 @ 19:24 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. October 2008 @ 19:33 |
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Wasn't THAT bad, but not being able to play old games sucks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. October 2008 @ 21:39 |
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Haha, So I ended up winning in the End? My board and the CPU?
Loved the pic hahahaha. made me laugh. Although my friend was there and he asked whether I was creeped out by people on the internets editing my pics and saving them from WEBCAMS(SHAF!). lol I said no.
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spamual
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20. October 2008 @ 00:05 |
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well not your board, but your CPU yes, i was trying to maximise his budget, but since rich can stretch, then why not :)
also rich i have geil black dragon 2x2GB PC8500. i love them, they have a little gold dragon aswell, which has 2 red led eyes, so cool :D
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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20. October 2008 @ 00:19 |
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I'm glad you liked the picture, James 007. 
Yeah you won!! Your board and your cpu!! Smart guy hahaha!
I'm getting the p45 board 
(the new crossfire version for $103 from newegg) and the 6750 cpu if the dude doesn't sell it in the next week or so until I get my check. His cpu is already lapped and maybe I'll take it to that mirror finish level watching "shaff's" videos.
Sam threw some rain on my parade about that $70 3870 I found
- I remember when he almost cured himself of being an ATI fanboy with the troubles he had with that board. I can laugh about it now but it was shocking at the time! Hahahaha.
Speaking of being an ATI fan-boy, which I am, I appreciate the 9600 suggestion, Shaff, but the idea of leaving the ATI camp right now would rock my world too much. That is the whole other world of nvidia, and I am having a hard enough time just keeping up with ATI - plus I am kind of convinced about the quality of image and shadow rendering issues.
Originally posted by customer review of the Sapphire 1gig 4870 on Newegg:
"I have a buddy down the road that has 2, 9800GTX+ that was happy to bring his rig up to compare side by side, and without a doubt Ati has the better picture."
Sam and Estuansis have to be two of the most detail-oriented dudes I have ever come across in terms of appreciating the subtle essence of the graphic renderings - I want to do more of that and less worrying about having my ass handed to me when you come around the corner with your shottie. Hahahah. Anyway, they are both solidly in the 4870 camp, so that's where I'll stay, with a weaker version of that card for now.
HOWEVER . . . . . . on the other hand, the new thought I am having is this:
You got me out of the idea, Shaff, of investing in a dead-end, the P4, when you came up with that amazing build at such a bargain price of $307. It absolutely didn't make sense to put almost that much into the P4. Plus I have modded out my case ventilation-wise so much, why not stay with this case that I have bled over (literally - those case cut edges where the new mods have gone are SHARP) and enjoy it much longer?
Since I am moving my case and some of my hardware - not much - to the new world, perhaps I should open up my checkbook a bit and think in terms of something more solid.
Maybe I should make even make the whole jump by throwing in an extra $150:
newegg 4870 - same as above pic - $219.99 after rebate
That would still leave me in the $500 to $600 range. Of course now it occurs to me that maybe I WILL need a new psu after all, but at least there is nothing dead-end about this investment.
I could actually play the cracked crysis, especially on my 1600x1200 monitor, and crank up the settings where I could start appreciating the images and the artwork the way that sam and estuansis do.
Then later - I could put out another $500, and get a decent 24" lcd display with 1920x1200, and finally another 4870 in crossfire the way estuansis just did.
$70 more, $289, 1 gig gddr5 powercolor 4870
Continuing down the newegg list of ATI graphics cards, I come to this one: Is it worth the extra $70 to have the 1gig GDDR5 memory? I know that if I did this, when I went crossfire, I would need to get another 1gig card.
I remember Sam saying it helps on the really high resolutions, 2560x1600. But here's a guy who says he sees a performance boost at 1920x1200:
Originally posted by another customer review of $299 1 gig sapphire:
I upgraded from the 512MB version of this card. I am currently playing Age of Conan. I received about a 20% increase in gameplay from the 512MB to the 1GB. I am playing with all settings MAX'd at 1920x1200. This game looks amazing now with all the shadows turned on now. Go ahead and max out your anti-alias too, it doesn't even hurt performance on this beast of a card.
So..... ok, all of you guys, I'm going to see how big my check is, and I might just go for the 1 gig 4870. If that means I have to get another PSU I might as well get the one that will eventually handle two 4870s in crossfire. So how much wattage do I need, how many amps on the 12 volt rail, and what PSU should I look at? Thanks for the help!
-Rich
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spamual
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20. October 2008 @ 02:51 |
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lol, i had a feeling this would happen. its the syndrom many of us have done, set a budet, and then say, tis only this much extra, only that much, and in the end BAM!!!
ok so what is the ammount you would be wanting to spend?
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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20. October 2008 @ 05:07 |
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To answer your question, I think the new budget is $500 for mobo,cpu,hsf, and memory.
You see, Shaff, it's all your fault. You suckered me into it. lol Quote:
"Rich why put almost $300 in your dead-end p4, when for only $307..." and then Boozer came along and said "P45" and Sam said "8000 3dmarks" .... LOL!
Yeah you're right BAM! The budget is blown.
Everybody has been telling me the same thing, but when you put that $307 system together IT HIT ME BETWEEN THE EYES lol. I was working with pennies because I was throwing it into a dead P4. Now that I'm not planning to do that anymore, the budget is going back up toward the $800 Estuansis was talking about a couple weeks ago.
1. So let's work backward from the graphics card, 4870 with 1 gig, about $300.
2. Add to that about $100 for this PSU I found. So that is $400 so far.
Originally posted by Rich's Newegg PSU Evaluation:
corsair 750 watts 60 amps on 12 volt rail $99 after rebate
I've been going low-price-up on Newegg, looking at the PSUs that have 4 pci-e 6 pin connectors, because each 4870 takes two of them. It looks like the best PSU so far is a Corsair, 750 watts, originally $179, sale $119, rebate $20 = $99, with 60 amps on single 12 volt rail, and 140mm cooling fan, and hundreds of mostly excellent reviews.
(How do you guys like that PSU, and what specific 4870 1 gig does anybody like?)
3. Now the mobo, cpu, hsf, memory combination we have so far runs about $252 assuming I can still get the $85 6750 from the guy boozer found. This included the $27 arctic freezer 7 and for $37 2 gigs of geil memory with the red LED dragon eyes! (Sounds cool!)
Now realistically, I don't want to bottleneck the 4870, and remember, eventually that's going to be two 4870s, the gfx power of Sam and Estuansis.
So, instead of $250 for mobo, cpu, memory, hsf .....SHOULD WE BE LOOKING MORE LIKE A TOTAL OF AT LEAST $500? WILL THAT GET US A LOT CLOSER TO AVOIDING A BOTTLENECK BY DOUBLING OUR MOBO/CPU BUDGET?
By the way, for an extra $37 shouldn't we think in terms of at least 4 gigs of memory? That pushes our memory budget to $75? Is geil still good - do we want something faster? If the red dragon is still good, that leaves $425 to not bottleneck the gfx cards. So we're still at the 3rd part of the system:
3. Staying mainstream core two duo, how should we best spend $425 between mobo, cpu, and hsf, to not bottleneck two 4870s? Abuzar, what are some good used part buys out there right now. Everybody join in - shaff, you're the moderator. LOL Thanks all!
-Rich
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spamual
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20. October 2008 @ 05:45 |
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right, firstly, perfect PSU, i would go with a modular, but im a cbale tidy freak :D
also im sorry for suckering you into it, i know how u feel, i get buyers remorse all the time, even for something for £10!!
can your case accomodate a 4870?
1GB sounds good, and the PSU will eat it up and spit it out, and ask for seconds, possibly 3rds :D
as for specific cheapest with 2-3years warranty, id suggest this:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127389
$500 for the CPU/mobo/RAM/HSF:
COME ON NEW EGG COME TO THE UK!!!!
also will your case be wide enough for the tuniq tower?
also you can substitute the E8500 for the Q6600.
expect the E8500 to hit 3.8-4.2GHz.
youll also want to "obtain" vista 64 ;) and each 1GB card will be mapped on the RAM to 1GB, therefore 2GB will not be enough!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. October 2008 @ 05:47
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. October 2008 @ 06:43 |
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It'll be more than 8000 3dmarks with a 4870. I managed to get nearly 13,000 out of it with my old E4300. Use an E8500 and you'll probably break 15,000. Two of them, well...
Now that the HD4870s are actually fast enough to make use of the extra memory, the 1GB versions are roughly 10% faster on average, but in certain scenarios they can be up to 30% faster when you really are using much more than 512MB of memory (note, basically just Crysis and GRiD with AA)
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spamual
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20. October 2008 @ 07:00 |
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umm should fresh orange juice taste fizzy?
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. October 2008 @ 07:01 |
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Not really, no.
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spamual
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20. October 2008 @ 07:10 |
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im guessing i just drunk a nice glass of off orange juice :D
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. October 2008 @ 07:11 |
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Perhaps, it tends to go a bit sour when it goes off.
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AfterDawn Addict
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20. October 2008 @ 09:12 |
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lol
You guys are so damn random.
P.S. Wasn't that guy selling a used P5Q-E for 75 bucks?
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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20. October 2008 @ 10:19 |
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Hey Shaff I was just kidding about suckering me into this - you did a great job of opening up my eyes, and now it's full steam ahead!!
Boozer, the used p5qe the guy was selling was a one gpu mobo - that's the only problem.
Man, shaff, that is another beautiful pricing setup you've created under $500. I have been going through this stuff all night. I have one change for you, but I totally agree on the Wolfdale 8500 - the price point is so much cheaper than the 8600, and hardly any more than the 8400. That is going to kick ass!!!
But, first, shaff, so we can all read this page normally without a lot of sideways scrolling, could you do me a favor and edit your post and replace your super humongously WIDE graphic with this chopped up one below? Hahahaha (you probably know how to do it but I just tested - if you right click on the picture below and select properties, you will get the path, which you can copy and paste in when you edit your post - Pleeeze! lol)
I am sure the 4870 board will fit - if not I'll make the room - my case is about 19 inches long - how long is the card?
My case is about 7.5 inches wide - the normal size - I measured my psu and the corsair psu is the same size - so how tall is the tuniq?
Ok - for the big change. I want to add $70 - that is cheating of me because it puts us over budget by $55 making a $550 mobo/cpu/hsf/memory budget. But I decided I love the Asus p5Q3 Deluxe - the one that newegg is out of stock on right now. I can find it all over town for about $210 or so. Comparing the boards side by side you can see the quality difference - it has sinks on the VRMs and many more discrete modules, mosfets, etc. - probably much better for fine-tuning the overclocking. Also it supports DDR3 1600, and 1800 and says it will overclock the memory to 2000.
But you have to get the approved memory on the current QVL list. So we will end up paying a lot more than $100 for memory if we want the fastest. I am going to need your help on the memory because to get all the way up to 2000 looks pretty expensive, like $350!!!
-Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. October 2008 @ 10:26
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