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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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20. October 2008 @ 22:31 |
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What are you talking about?
You feel alright. It's like 4AM over there. Go to sleep.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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20. October 2008 @ 23:02 |
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And now a message from the guinea pig:
Hey boys and girls (shaff and booze fit yourselves in there somewhere hahahaha) I have an announcement - are you listening Sam?
THE TEMPEST IS 95% - ALMOST A FULL TOWER!!!
Yeah, they market it as a mid-tower, but I just watched the vid of it, then I watched the HAF vid, and guess what:
My small true mid-tower case is: HWD: 16 high, 7 wide, 17.5 deep.
Tempest and full tower HAF: Height 20 versus 21.5. Width 8.4 versus 9.0. Depth 22.2 versus 22.7.
A full tower is 5.5" taller, 2.0" wider, and 5.0" deeper than my mid-tower.
A full tower is 1.5" higher, 0.5" wider, and 0.5" deeper than the Tempest.
The tempest is virtually a full tower!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 06:48 |
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There are mid-towers and then there are mid-towers. Most good ones are the latter, if you know what I mean.
As for Lian Lis, some are more overpriced than others. The A70B isn't especially bad value, but the smaller ones are often a bit on the pricey side. They are well made, but they are very bland for how much they cost, not that that's a bad thing, but still, as far as complexity goes, you're getting a flat metal cuboid for over a hundred pounds...
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spamual
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21. October 2008 @ 12:41 |
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anyone heard of mountain mods UFO?
its just a clear arcly cube, for about £250!!!
now thats over priced.
you pay for class IMO, with lian li.
little things, like its chasis is fully man built, not mass produced.
each fan comes with a disconnector for a 3pin> 4pin molex connector.
thubscrewes where ever possible, you can take apart EVERYTHING, event he roof, HDD cages, anything. i cant see any rivets.
(my case) Dual PSUS, one top, one bottom.
there are cut outs on the back top of the mobo so you can unscrew a retention plate.
but maybe im being biased, caus i bought one, and i wan tto justify it, but still.
one bad thing, the price (though i think its worth it) and it can scratch a little easily)
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 13:00 |
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Overpriced? maybe. Worth it? totally. Have you seen how big Mountain Mod cases are? They're two full towers. At £250 that works out at £125 per tower, which is no more expensive than your Lian Li... :)
As for Lian-Lis being handmade, I'd like to believe that's true, but I honestly can't see it myself. There are too many out there for that.
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spamual
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21. October 2008 @ 14:56 |
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they have avideo of it on hexus.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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21. October 2008 @ 17:47 |
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You know, on cases, whether a case is overpriced, you guys all have valid points, whether you see it one way or the other way.
Same thing on motherboards. I was reading a lot of the comments on motherboards, and one guy said kind of the same thing "I can't see paying over $100 for a motherboard."
Three days ago I probably would have agreed. Now I think that's a crock.
I remember 20 years ago when the 386 first came on the market in retail PC stores, for ONLY $5,000, and my family member Miles (the animator dude) who was about 12, was given one as a present (look what career it led him to.) A 386 at 10 mhz - blazing fast clock speed at the time! Yes, you heard me right. The operating system was windows 3.1.
Computers are SOOOO cheap now, by comparison, that a guy is bitching about paying $200 for the deluxe version of a motherboard with rock-steady voltages, full oc'ing capability, and tremendous reliability. It's ONLY the heart of the whole friggin' system, for crying out loud. But I understand where he's coming from.
If you get used to being able to buy a mobo for $100, and it's pretty good, and works pretty well, then OH MY GOD THEY WANT $200 ARE THE F**ING OUT OF THEIR MINDS!!!
The same with the case. I am giving some thought to modding the top panel of my case, to install a top exhaust fan. But the top is held on by rivets. It's a cheap steel case that Mo probably picked up for about $30 OEM. So if I want to mod it, I have to leave it in place and somehow figure out how not to end up with tiny pieces of metal scraps inside the case (I think I can do it, if I do the mod, by taping large loose pieces of duct tape on the inside ceiling, to catch the particles from the drilling and hack sawing. Ewwww!)
But if I had Shaff's Lian-Li - just take off the top and work on it separate from the rest. There is a price you pay for that kind of convenience and quality, and in Shaff's value system, it's worth it. I totally see his point. On the other hand, I will probably end up with the Tempest for $100, because I am not such a purist in regard to the box - I'll put more money into the graphics and now that I have given myself a huge education about mobos - I'll probably get a deluxe version of some mobo for $200.
Look at this picture of the mobo choice I was looking at before Shaff decided I should become the nehalem guinea pig.
Look at the quality differences between the three boards. The one shaff picked out finally was the one in the middle, a good compromise I guess. But look at the discrete components on the board on the right. What are all those little mosfets and whatever doing there, versus the grosser components on the middle board, and the even fewer and even grosser components (meaning one big component instead of several little components) on the cheapest one on the left. In my opinion, although I really still don't know sh*t about mobos and overclocking, the multitude of components translates into finer overclocking control and increased ability to tweak the settings, not to mention increased stability, and better heat dissippation.
So on shaff's box, the same thing. He takes pride in the all-aluminum quality - obviously better heat dissipation - but probably doesn't really make much difference temperature-wise. Of course aluminum is ligher than steel - so easier to move around. There are a lot of subtle quality differences that shaff appreciates about that case, including NO rivets.
One more quick example before I get off the soap box, LOL, the tempest doesn't have a removable motherboard tray. So, okay fine, I'll flip it on its side and screw the motherboard in - I'm not planning to take the bit*ch out again for years so no big deal to me. But a big deal to other people. The video reviewer on both Tempest and HAF noted as a negative "no removable motherboard tray."
-Rich
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spamual
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21. October 2008 @ 18:11 |
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oh yeah, removable mobo aswel :Djust take 2 THUMBscrews out at the back, and slide off :)
IMO id get the PRO or the deluxe, not the E.
the deluxe is speical, with its 16 phase power design, and 2 phase for the RAM, Ocing is its strongest point. its superb.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 18:34 |
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The looks, build quality, weight and so on of the Lian Li case are neither here nor there, but no rivets is AWESOME.
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 18:56 |
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Yeah, well I like to keep things on a budget. I prefer performance over No Rivets.
Of course when I used to buy computers for MYSELF my computer started with 400 dollars. Then I sold it for some more and I put the extra money on the new computer. This is my "personal" budget, computers that I sell separetely are apart from this budget. Anyway I'm upto 950 dollars right now. So I have to use that 950 to get the most performance I can. I would rather save 50 dollars on the motherboard have a 100mhz lower overclock and spend the extra on the GPU, etc.
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spamual
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21. October 2008 @ 19:06 |
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yeah well my personal build actually is personal, not one i will sell in a second. the case and psu are kept longest in builds, i think its worth it.
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 19:20 |
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Hey, I keep mine for 3-4 months atleast. The LAST one was crazy. I was so sure Nehalem was gonna come out ANY SECOND that I wanted to get rid of it FAST. Thats why I sold it because I was afraid to depreciate value and I pay for all my own stuff. Not my dad, me. I cant afford losing so much money and having to build a crappier computer.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 19:34 |
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I'm with Shaff on this one. The components inside may change but my case is my PC, and will be with me for as long as is damn possible. :)
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 19:39 |
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Uhuh, and I've been using and abusing my Crappy conpaq case and it's just FINE for 5 years. All I'm saying is that a 90-100 USD case that is good quality(CM690, NZXT Tempest) or even cheaper 60 dollar cases(CM590, Raidmax Smilodon) will work just fine for many years.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 19:42 |
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Indeed. No argument with that.
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spamual
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21. October 2008 @ 20:43 |
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not gonna disagree with that, but id rather work in a lianli,a nd look at that, rather than a cheaper case.
you might aswell say id rather get an E5200 over th eE8400, caus its cheaper, and when OCed itll do that same thing,
but it still will not be as good as. i dont see where your hatred for lianli comes in?
but then u like crrrrikuut, your weird. (and breaking benjamin....¬_¬)
HAHAHA
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 21:37 |
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Not hate. I just think it's overpriced. IDK, I'm a pretty well lower middle class guy. I can't afford it. I thought Rich wasn't well... RICH. So I figured he would spend his money WISELY somewhere else. If he cant afford a Lian-Li, well more power to him. If he has to cheap out on other parts to get the Lian-Li, well I would recommend against that.
They are honestly plain looking cases that do the job just as well as other cases that IMHO(note: my opinion) look way better.
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spamual
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21. October 2008 @ 22:22 |
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lower middle class my arse, mr drs son :p
im working class, with one working mum, yet i have used my own money for everything i have had. ask sam how im living in uni now, just to get a car/ better parts!
dedication :D
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 22:38 |
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Dude, don't assume stuff about me. Don't assume how much money I have. My parents dont practice anymore. This is a public forum and I dont wanna get into details. you have my MSN...
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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21. October 2008 @ 22:53 |
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Yeah, boozer is not rich YET! Give him a chance, and 12 more years of busting butt education including specialty in heart surgery, and 3-5 years of intern, and then he'll be a freakin' millionaire, well 5 years more to pay back those back-breaking loans!!! He'll be a millionaire at 40! That will give him 60 more years to have the very best cpu that shaff "Mo's computer kingdom" can build for him, with the very highest score in the universe at 95,000 3dmark 6!! LOL
Well, at least we ALL agree, Sam included (maybe boozer) that NO RIVETS is Good!!
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Shaff looks at the Lian-li, sees a hand-made aluminum case with no rivets, total ease of use, very clean lines and thinks "Buckingham Palace." A lot of professional parts reviewers, I'm seeing on these tech reviews, a lot of these guys start out talking about what they have inside "my Lian-Li case" before they get to the review. I have started to notice that.
But then, boozer, you're like me, a limited budget, and maybe even tempest is overkill for me if I could save $40.
And then other people like a lot of bling and colorful leds.
And then for cheap I'm the worst, with my $30 cheap-ass case that Mo used in my 3 year old build. I have grown to like it, because I have modded it and literally bled over it - like I said before - my finger is still healing.
But I am so proud of my last mod. Remember that I changed the side exhaust fan into an inlet after reading that the tempest side is an inlet? So the $3 fan filter I just ordered came in consisting of three parts with a plastic mount to hold the fan, and then the filter, and then the plastic cover. I completely removed the metal grill I had paid $12 for, turned the fan around to be an inlet, secured it with the plastic part, and slapped on the cover with filter. Now it's exactly the same as the plastic with filter part over my dedicated cpu hsf inlet fan, on the same side panel. When the filter gets dirty, snap off the cover and wash it! But look at the hassle if the front intake kama bay ever gets dirty:
Originally posted by A FORMER KAMA BAY LOVER:
When the kama bay filter gets dirty, take off the side panel, unscrew the kama bay, unscrew the fan from the kama bay, balance gently to not lose the 8 tiny washers, wash the filter, then very gently try to put the fan back on the kama bay upside down while holding up four sets of screws and washers with every corner of my hand, like Houdini, and install back into the computer. WHAT A PAIN IN THE ASS!!!!
Getting back to build - Ray did you come back and are you still learning new things - there is too much to learn!! Sam gorges on pixels, and I could gorge on technology, like Fidler on the Roof wishing he were rich so he could gorge on the Talmud, the way the wahaabi's gorge on the Koran. I know we all gorge on technology - that's what shaff said the other day, a bunch of crack heads, errr... geek heads, discussing things with no mods to hassle with.
So besides case - should I spend the $100, or save $40, then there is the gpu - I'm gonna get the 4870, or whatever's out by then.
Then shaff loves the deluxe, me too after all the study of the last few days, so that's $200 right there.
So that's $500 so far, without the case. PSU that we all love, Corsair 750 down from $179 to $119, 140mm fan, if the special is still around for a while, so that's $620
So I'm at $620, no case, no cpu, no hsf, no memory. If I try to stay within a $900 budget where you're at boozer, it's gonna be tight!!
-Rich
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 23:08 |
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Well when you are about to build your build you let me know. All this speculation is fun... but ultimately useless. I know from experience that no matter how much you plan, it's mostly really fast on the moment shopping.
You find good deals and you spring on them. I'll help you with that when you have money in hand and you can buy stuff THAT DAY.
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spamual
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21. October 2008 @ 23:26 |
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boozers 100% correct.
the ammount of times i said imma get this or that, come this date etc, then changed my mind, then went a total different direction.
like i was gonna get a pair of speaks, but instead i bought a mouse and the samsung F1 640GB hdd :D
heres the mouse i bought:
http://scan.co.uk/Product.aspx?WebProduc...%2c+20g+Weights
boozer, i dont assume, i never once said you were rich did i?
read first :D
rich was only pinching the pennies due to his P4, he always said he was gonna make it run till his 2k build :D
i was about to splash about 1.5k on a new full build in october, but now i have decided a car will be better instead, and will wait till january for the PC :D
thing is i always my PCin parts, or else i would have the worst buyers remorse in the world.
i got buyers remorse paying £85 for my P5K-E, back when you could get it for over £100, and buying cod4, for £22 (collectors edition) when i could pir8 it, yet its given me over 900 hours of enjoyment!
i still feel bad lool, yet they are worth it, imgaine how bad id feel plopping over 1k on a system, esp when i7 was around the corner, but now seeing i7 gaming advances (or lack their of) im glad i waited, as hopefully the Q9650 will drop in price.
when i bought my 2x2GB ram PC8500 geil black dragon, for £75, when it would have been £90, i was angry with my self, but PC8500 is needed for 1333mhz/1600mhz FSB OCing. :D
but the one thing i have never had buyers remorse is my Lian-Li PC-A70B. esp when i paid for the extras to get it ready for watercooling, which means i WILL get watercooling :)
and my Lian-Li PC-A70B is the most i have ever put, at one point into my PC, even more than the £240 24" i bought, (which im still sorry abotu buying) LOOL.
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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21. October 2008 @ 23:41 |
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Heh, I'm looking at parts all the time too. Thats how I decide to build computers. I'll have money lying around from the last computer, see some good deals and just start snatchin up parts.
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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22. October 2008 @ 01:19 |
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Same thing here. I usually have my heart set on certain parts, but there are always good deals popping up everywhere. My 8800GTS 512MB was one of those spur-of-the-moment deals for $209. I have absolutely no buyers remorse about it either. Was, and still is, a very fast card capable of maxing nearly everything.
It also makes it worth it to use my secondary PC as a LAN box. I'm not embarrassed to show off a bit older stuff if it's all top-end. My 8800GTS 512 demolishes most PCs in my town. Not to mention my soon-to-be Crossfire setup that nobody will be able to touch :D
My monitor was sort of a spur-of-the-moment thing too. I had the money, I wanted a monitor to last me damn near forever, and I got it. This is probably the last monitor I will ever use as long as DVI remains a standard. No regrets about a long-term investment :)
Anyways, honestly, how many people do you know who splurged on a 24" monitor? Most of the guys in the local "geek club" are using SLI 8800GTS 640s at best with maybe a 22" monitor being the biggest besides mine.
Man it feels good to be on top :D
EDIT:
Oh, and as far as mice go... I'm still using my ancient Logitech MX518 ;P Bought it when it first came out and it's given loyal service with pin-point accuracy for nearly 4 years. One of the best mice of all time, IMO.
Also, my backup mouse for the dual core rig is a Razer Krait... also an excellent and very accurate mouse, but only 3 buttons. Very good for LANs though.
Here's a game all. Try and spec out the first real gaming rig you ever built. Mine was:
AMD Sempron 3100+ stock 1.8GHz OC to 2.4GHz
Biostar Tforce 6100 Mobo Socket 754
2 x 512MB Patriot Signature DDR 400 CL 2.5
Power Color Radeon X800GTO 256MB(no unlocked pipes)
160GB Seagate Barracuda SATA
Lol, that's all I remember for now. That rig was so sweet at the time. And it would still be a fairly capable gamer today(compared to any integrated). It played(and still would play) Half Life 2, Far Cry, Doom 3 maxed at 1280 res. I was even able to get some decent-ish performance out of Oblivion :)
And Rich. Even that OC'd Sempron was a lot faster than your 3.2GHz Pentium 4. Upgrade now. You could get almost any available processor and have a massive performance boost. You don't need a 2K build all at once. All of my current and previous PCs were built piece-by-piece.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 22. October 2008 @ 01:47
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spamual
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22. October 2008 @ 02:00 |
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my 24" was a spur of the moment, i wanted IICR an 8800GTS 512, but ended getting this instead :D
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