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Which Transcoding Tools Produce The Best Picture Quality.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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18. August 2004 @ 16:17 |
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terrytj
Now go have some fun!
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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18. August 2004 @ 16:18 |
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ATTENTION! EVERYONE!
Double ?D?
Ddlooping has challenged us (you know who you are) to a friendly dual of sorts, to put RB/CCE up against DVD Shrink. He?s even going to provide us with web space to upload our results. Sounds like fun to me.
Vurbal and jdobbs, it would be especially of interest if you both joined us as participants or at least as advisors.
Here?s the link with the discussions we had.
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/101003
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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18. August 2004 @ 16:24 |
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That's like racing Secretariat against Mr. Ed. That boy has been drinking too much coffee! LOL
 GO VOLS !This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2004 @ 07:00
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terrytj
Junior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 16:48 |
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TO YOU ALL: Thanks for your help, much appreciated. I'll disappear for a little while and see what damage I can manage by myself with my new toys before surfacing again with cries of "Help, I'm drowning, not waving."
Good luck with the duel with DD. Sounds like pitting a champion sprinter against a champion marathon runner...both are runners and both are champions at their respective disciplines. Does a race between the two tell you anything meaningful? But, Hey, what would I know, I'm still on my Learner's plates.
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siber
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18. August 2004 @ 18:06 |
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Terrytj: very pointed comment, I think I am going to like your contributions, "old man".
I have very little interest in this challenge. I can already imagine all the stuff I have already read so many times before. "bla bla bla shrink at 5% is so much better than RB/CCE at 6% bla bla bla, RB/CCE has 'mosquito noise'(!!!?) and shrink is just so wonderful/great/perfect/superior/convenient/versatile/bla bla bla..."
I like both programs. I use both programs. Period. Thank you.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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18. August 2004 @ 18:13 |
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siber
At least a challenge might allow us to shake the trees a while longer and who knows what might fall from its branches.
@terrytj
You do know of course that siber's a lurker?:) He usually only shows when there's a good fight going on, but we've adopted him as a member of the group just the same. LOL
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2004 @ 02:52
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siber
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18. August 2004 @ 19:19 |
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Hello, Sophocles. Keep up the good work. I'm going back to my cave now.
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terrytj
Junior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 19:49 |
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@ siber..."old man"? I am now quietly sobbing in my bib...but only 'cos it's true. Not too many nubiles throwing themselves at me these days but I have got a couple of old Dears at the local bowling club on their toes. <g>
On a serious note: Any 'duel' between the two programs can only be good in the long run 'cos everyone will learn something new. Strip the emotion out of it and look at the results and it's just more info to accept or reject depending on your assessment of how fair the methodology/criteria was.
@ sophocles...I figure siber must be a good lurker and not a dv8 otherwise you guys wouldn't speak to him.
Update: I've downloaded the trials of DVDCopy2 Platinum vers and AnyDVD to a zip disk and will probably install them tonight or tomorrow. Also I came across and printed some pages (for later reading)of an exchange between Scuba Pete et al and brobear about the usefulness and functions of Shrink/Decrypter/Nero etc. Man, there's a fair bit to absorb in this hobby and I'm doing it for recreation? Maybe I should have taken up something easier, like rocket science.
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Senior Member
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18. August 2004 @ 20:40 |
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"...there's a fair bit to absorb in this hobby and I'm doing it for recreation? Maybe I should have taken up something easier, like rocket science." ...terrytj
It can be overwhelming at first, but I know the feeling. Each program seems to have its own personality, though, and once you have a chance to try them, everything makes sense. You've also done very well in analyzing all the options ... and I would say you've done this to a degreee which I've never witnessed before!!!
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terrytj
Junior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 00:58 |
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siber...yep, I know you know what it feels like at the deep end. As with all new programs on my pc, after I've got my hands dirty it either will start to make some sense or it will be start > control panel > add/remove <g>.
Quote:
You've also done very well in analyzing all the options ... and I would say you've done this to a degreee which I've never witnessed before!!!Quote:
I suppose being retired provides a greater opportunity to spend time on researching an interest...plus being a tad anal and a Virgo are advantages. Even though I probably won't be burning to the extent you guys do I still like using quality products to produce quality results...doesn't have to be the best, being quality is good enough. It's a personal thing and I don't mind if I have to spend time and money, within reason, to achieve that.
I will install my trial programs tonight and have a little play over the next few days. I shall let you (and the others here who so kindly adopted me) know how stage 1 goes.
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jdobbs
Senior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 05:25 |
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Quote:
Vurbal and jdobbs, it would be especially of interest if you both joined us as participants or at least as advisors.
I try to stay out of these comparisons. DVDShrink is a incredible piece of software. DVD-RB/CCE is also (of course I'm prejudiced) a great DVD backup solution. I personally think CCE is the undisputed MPEG-2 video encoding champion (interestingly their MPEG-1 encoder and MPEG audio encoders aren't that great) and it is based upon a huge amount of experience. That's the reason I wrote DVD-RB -- to take advantage of it.
But, with that said, I have never seen a comparison of any of these types of software that wasn't severely flawed. I'm especially bothered when I see side-by-side frame comparisons. Stills aren't video and most of the time the frame is compressed as JPEGs -- which immediately invalidates the comparison anyway.
The best comparison is done at the individual level. If somebody is happy with DVD Shrink, DVD95Copy, DVD2One, or any of the other programs that use within-the-compressed-domain algorithms then they should stick with it.
As for me... the quality available (due to very solid mathmatical reasons) from these types of encoders just doesn't meet the levels at which I've come to expect.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2004 @ 05:27
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brobear
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19. August 2004 @ 06:39 |
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As much as I like a good donnybrook, I fear jdobbs is correct. There is no fair way of doing the test except one on in a lab environment. Sending clips and jpegs over the net is no way to accomplish anything. CCE is accepted as the encoder leader in the industry. So, a net fued won't help or hurt CCE. The devotees of Shrink will remain the same. Didn't dd say something about going to CCE when the compression started going up? I'm old and my memory fades...
terrytj
If you setup the DVDCopy2 trial, be ready to use it. Unless they changed it, the trial is only good for a few days. Sounds like you've become a software-aholic like some of the AD regulars. BTW, sometimes Pete and my discussions confused me. If there is anything in particular you wonder about, just ask. Other than personal opinions, most of my info is strictly by the book. Don't ask whose book. ;)
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 06:54 |
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Hello. :)
jdobbs, could you do me a small favor?
Could you have a look at the following page and tell me if you see a flaw in my comparison method?
http://www.dvdshrink.info/temp/beta/comparative_tests_smooth.html
brobear, I did say I always use DVD2DVD-R/CCE when the required compression > 20%.
However, due to the results of my latest test (link above) I'm now not sure I'll stick to this rule anymore. :/
_
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2004 @ 07:16
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terrytj
Junior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 07:12 |
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brobear...I've just now installed AnyDVD and DVDCopy2 without any probs and printed off the latter's help manual (yeah, I know...no need to say it <g>).
AnyDVD trials for 21 days and DVDCopy2 for 3 days but no worries as I know I'm won't have the time to test drive it much. As long as it can co-exist happily with my pc and I can make a couple of rips and burns I'll be happy enough to buy it.
"Software-aholic"? Yeah, I don't like how this is sucking me in; and my wife thinks I've been on the pc checking out the porn sites <g>.
I've got a few pages of forum postings to read and if I have any queries I'll get back to you. The particular exchange I was referring to involved you and searcher 1 and then scuba pete about a bunch of stuff (including the merits of shrink and decrypter; iso modes causing read errors; default settings; and nero) around June this year.
Well, it's 1300 hours local time so it's time for beddies.
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 07:27 |
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Hey Sophocles, I've just read your post about a friendly challenge. :D
It's not a challenge at all, just a way to get more data. ;)
A challenge would have been:
"All of you DVD2DVD-R/CCE and DVD RB/CCE users.
DVD Shrink v3.2 with Deep Analysis and AEC options is now better than your favorite backup method.
I challenge you to prove me wrong! Muhahahaaa", lol.
In my opinion, v3.2 with DA and AEC/"Smooth" does yeld better results overal than CCE VBR 2-pass.
Not because the video stream is then softer, as it isn't, but because it is closer to the original and shows less artefacts and induced noise.
But, this only applies to LOTR-ROTK R2, movie-only, at 60.9%.
Hence my suggestion to conduct more tests with other movies. :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2004 @ 07:28
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brobear
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19. August 2004 @ 08:26 |
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terrytj
One word of caution. Sometimes you have to play a video in the player to get AnyDVD to recognize it. Try that if you run into a situation where the video is having a problem being decrypted by AnyDVD. Other than that, it should be painless.
DD, nice of you to drop in. No problem with comparisons and everyone can do their own. I did LOTR, ROTK and gladiators with the 3.2 beta. I think that was with #10 or 11. I haven't run any big tests with the completed product. Hard to break an old bear from playing with his favorite toys. Got tired of having a large quantity of the same video. I should have enough copies of that flick to last till 2104 unless they fade. Just kidding, probably have something better than DVD by then.
Good doughnut and donkey. 
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 08:51 |
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Hiya brobear. :)
There's been quite a few tweaks to the compression algorithm between beta 10 and the final release.
It might be worth for you to give it another try.
Glad to hear you like my avatars. ;)
Here is another one...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2004 @ 08:53
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brobear
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19. August 2004 @ 09:50 |
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DD
I said I didn't run any more big tests. I have checked out the new completed program; just didn't do as much checking out as I did with the final betas. Haven't had any epics to record either.
According to what you say, some good comparisons may be in order. Still it relies on honesty and integrity, as the net is not the best medium in which to conduct this sort of comparison (not with the equipment and software most of us have).
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 09:59 |
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"Still it relies on honesty and integrity..."
I don't want to get into another debate other this, so let me just say I'm willing to take the risk.
I'll trust you, Sophocles, bigorange,..., more than you trust(ed) me.
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brobear
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19. August 2004 @ 10:19 |
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Boy, it always seems to be my words that seem to start things lately. I think all involved with the current discussion are capable of honesty and integrity. No implications were being made to the contrary and none meant. My name appears to be "Mister Abrasive"; so if I meant it, I would say it.
I meant that it would be more written input by individuals than being able to show differences with pictures and clips. If enough people were to be involved, a general consensus could indicate the closeness in visual quality or not. I think the personal bias can be left out. It has been done before.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 19. August 2004 @ 10:29
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AfterDawn Addict
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19. August 2004 @ 10:20 |
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double d, you outta trust me, I'm not smart enough to cheat! ;>)
GO VOLS !
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 10:23 |
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Sorry if I misunderstood you, brobear.
bigorange, how is your test going? :)
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brobear
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19. August 2004 @ 10:33 |
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dd
I hope my edit clarified the statement instead of further muddying the waters. If I thought you were a dirty, low down, cheatin dog; I'd tell you so. So far BigO is the only one who knows where to catch me.
That was intended to be tongue in cheek and a smile.
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ddlooping
Senior Member
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19. August 2004 @ 10:47 |
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No worries, brobear. ;)
Would you be willing to take part in the "group test", and if yes, what movie would you be doing?
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brobear
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19. August 2004 @ 11:43 |
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dd
You caught me at a most inopportune time. I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this one.
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