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P2P users are nothing but common criminals!!!
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Staff Member
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26. June 2003 @ 11:52 |
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Bravo Bravo DMW!! *clapping mad*!! lol said it better than i could have possibly!
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gluon
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26. June 2003 @ 12:06 |
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Three quotes from my posts. What I said was ?nearly all of them are sharing copyright material?, notice the nearly in there, and ?it's almost entirely copyright material?, notice the almost in there, and ?In the first place I didn?t say Dela or theos or any individual other than myself were thieves. I said this is the way I behave and I believe that that behaviour makes me, and anyone behaving like me, a thief. I also said ?I apologise profusely to those very few of you to whom this doesn?t apply?. But for me and the vast majority of the rest of you as Bob Marley said ?who the cap fits, let them wear it?.?
Come on lads, pay attention.
nearly - adverb
almost but not quite; close to
I've nearly finished that book you lent me.
She's nearly as tall as her father now.
almost - adverb
nearly but not quite
It'll cost almost as much to repair your computer as to buy a new one.
We were bitten by mosquitoes almost every night.
Let the bonton roulay...
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DMW
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26. June 2003 @ 12:24 |
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yes, thats right and i also read all of those posts, thanks for the English lesson too, i often wondered what those words meant.
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The majority of you are in denial with a significant minority who are out and out liars. Peer to peer users who don?t share copyright material! Come on now. What?s next? Bears that don?t shit in the woods?
Could you now give me the explanation of majority and minority, im confused i thought if you had the majority that did one thing and a minority that did another, that would be all parties accounted for. check above, i am neither in denial or an out and out liar so i must be one of the bears!!
ok, im off to take my s**t in the nearby woods.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2003 @ 12:24
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Staff Member
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26. June 2003 @ 12:32 |
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gluon, if you read your posts again man you say, all you liars or something like that and that we are hiding! How do you know we are hiding? perhaps those of us that say we dont download copyrighted material are telling the truth??
I dont want to argue over this but i just wont have anyone even remotely imply i have anything to do with piracy or lying about it!
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gluon
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26. June 2003 @ 12:41 |
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DMW
Yeah, sorry! The dictionary bit was rude and unnecessary. I forget my own advice and started to take this stuff seriously. I'm back in a correct frame of mind now though, thanks to a little help from my friends :-), so onwards and upwards.
But I?m definitely not saying all peer to peer users share copyright material just that anyone who has used any of the previously or currently available knows that nearly all are. The majority/minority line might be slightly misleading but even that doesn?t mean all. A majority plus a minority doesn?t always make 100%, there can be other minorities as well. I?ve tried hard all through my posts to always qualify my statements as I know it?s not all peer to peer users. The three quotes shown demonstrate that. But I also know it is nearly all, almost everyone. Do you really think it?s not the majority? Can you really argue that it?s only a small minority? Do you really think I might be the only one in this forum/thread? It doesn?t seem reasonable or even possible to me.
Let the bonton roulay...
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gluon
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26. June 2003 @ 12:44 |
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Dela
Same quote again, and this seems really clear to me.
"In the first place I didn?t say Dela or theos or any individual other than myself were thieves. I said this is the way I behave and I believe that that behaviour makes me, and anyone behaving like me, a thief. I also said ?I apologise profusely to those very few of you to whom this doesn?t apply?. But for me and the vast majority of the rest of you as Bob Marley said ?who the cap fits, let them wear it?.?
Let the bonton roulay...
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aqsg72
Account closed as per user's own request
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26. June 2003 @ 12:53 |
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gluon, the fact is one minute you did say
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I apologise profusely to those very few of you to whom this doesn?t apply
Yet, the next you said:
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The majority of you are in denial with a significant minority who are out and out liars. Peer to peer users who don?t share copyright material! Come on now. What?s next? Bears that don?t shit in the woods?
You cannot one minute excuse those who do not apply and the next say that there are no exceptions to the idea that all p2p users share copywritten material.
BTW, I think you made it pretty clear that you were covering 100% of users with your comments. To back up this what you said following shows you do not believe there are any other minorities, once again contrary to what you say now.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2003 @ 12:58
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Staff Member
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26. June 2003 @ 13:23 |
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ill spend the time later to go back over all the posts, i saved the thread so no1 gets any editing ideas lol!
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DMW
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26. June 2003 @ 14:20 |
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Do you really think it?s not the majority? Can you really argue that it?s only a small minority? Do you really think I might be the only one in this forum/thread?
No i dont think for a minute it is the minority, but i dont believe in character assasination before proof is acquired. This is the attitude of the RIAA and is wrong, hence Dela and others getting hits from their ip range when not using p2p. it would be much clearer if you said something like "all those that do download copyright material are thieves" or "those using p2p for pirated software are thieves too" and then vent your personal opinions, but to say the majority are is attacking those that dont deserve it. As you can see, when those that dont deserve the tag are attacked they get defensive. If the thread was one opinion on downloading vs another then it would be less personal but just as interesting, well i think so anyhoo. Well thats me done again, blabbin on and on. Personal attacks = defensive posters. (when i say personal i dont mean individual, but general, which is how your comments come across).
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gluon
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26. June 2003 @ 14:45 |
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DMW
Sorry but we?ll have to disagree on this. You say ?when i say personal i dont mean individual, but general, which is how your comments come across.? My comments are general and not personal or at least only occasionally personal (see below).
Dela
You are a repeated and passionate advocate of the peer to peer sharing of copyright material. For instance you said in an earlier post ?I dont do it myself but I cause a helluva lot of it with the emule tutorial and my posts in the filesharing forum.?
But you become mortally offended if anyone suggests or assumes that you, or any of the people you advocate the practice to, are actually doing it.
Huh?
Let the bonton roulay...
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DMW
Member
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26. June 2003 @ 15:07 |
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Gluon
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My comments are general and not personal or at least only occasionally personal
That was my point, your comments are generalised, but they cast an image about most or the majority of p2p users, this is when it is deemed personal.
Sorry if i didnt get the point across clearly, like i said my english skills arent up to much, but you must see how you are rubbing up the wrong way legitimate users of p2p. We are not all thieves and dont like the accusation. if thats not how you meant it then maybe we both need grammer lessons.
I think Dela gets defensive for the same reason, to say he is wrong for getting defensive just becasue he gives Emule tutorials is wrong too. Sony and JVC gove manuals on video recording but dont expect people to hoko up 2 and dub a video, i know silly example, but please tell me you see my point as im rambling now.
*head hurts* *eyes blurring*
ok, im off for the night now, 12:10am here, gots me an early start in the morning. Thanks all, rants welcome, i'll reply 2moz.
take care one and all.
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ABMone
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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26. June 2003 @ 16:23 |
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The argument can go on and on about whos a thief and whos not but we are starting to get away from the new point that this is inavasion of privacy.
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Staff Member
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26. June 2003 @ 23:22 |
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Dela
You are a repeated and passionate advocate of the peer to peer sharing of copyright material. For instance you said in an earlier post ?I dont do it myself but I cause a helluva lot of it with the emule tutorial and my posts in the filesharing forum.
Whats your point?? Afterdawn, doom9, divx-digest all cause piracy because someone is willing to misuse the information on the website. This is of course not what afterdawn or any of the other sites intend on causing but it happens anyway!
Damn even the news cause piracy by mentioning the name of a p2p network so dont give me that crap!
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I steal copyrighted material that I have no legitimate claim to and I believe that makes me a thief. You guys do the same thing and call yourselves pirates. You could say it?s just semantics but I still think you?re all in denial. Anyway if you were pirates you?d all have parrots, eye patches, wooden legs and big boats. You show me your parrot and I?ll show you mine.
When you were saying that, you were in discussion with myself, darthnip, oriphus and theos, so who were you talking to?? the wall??
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You're commenting on things you can't possibly know about, ie Piledrives private and offline life. See the difference?
You said that to theos, did it not occur to you that you were commenting on the personal lives of everyone else in the thread all over the thread? and like i said, we are the only ones here so u must have been talking to us while you were making your assumptions!
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Right then, if we?re going to continue with this. In the first place I didn?t say Dela or theos or any individual other than myself were thieves.
You were in conversation with us man! you said the word "we" and then said you guys are in denial!
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You've scared them all off, loaded. Come on pirates, show yourselves.
Once again, who were the people in the thread in the first place?? so yes you were refering to all of us!
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Look, Piledrive?s case makes it nice and simple because he has made his feelings very clear.
It?s his music, he created it and it has to be his call as to what happens to it. If he decides to give it away that?s OK, it?s his decision to make. If he decides that you can?t have it without paying for it that?s also OK because that?s also his decision to make. And only his decision, you guys just don?t have any say in the matter.
Excuse me we had every right to step in when he said all p2p users are common criminals, and then went ahead to be ignorant and made a few cheeky comments towards me for trying to point out that p2p could be used in his favour or the favour of any artist! So i hit back too in one of my posts so there is no point in saying, "ohh dela dela, you personally attacked piledrive", he called me a thief and made those comments, i had every right!
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Whether or not Piledrive?s music is any good, whatever that might mean, doesn?t make any difference. Neither do any of the generally poorly thought through justifications you pirates come up with.
Look over the thread, who made comments on whether his music is good or worth buying?? that would be me, darthnip and if i remember correctly theos, you proceed to call us pirates! Ironic indeed!
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Irony, if you prefer.
That was posted by loaded, just letting you know i'm not the only one who noticed how weird your post before it had been!
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Also, it?s very easy to sit there and say RIAA bastards, RIAA this and RIAA that but the article includes quotes from a whole raft of musicians, producers and others in the business and they all call it theft and stealing.
That was in reply to one of my posts but what you forgot is i said i dont share music, so why tell me instead of looking in the mirror and telling yourself? You also said the pirate position is weak! What do I care if i'm not a pirate? I dont hate the RIAA because they dont like loosing money! Nobody likes that! I hate them because they lie and overestimate problems. Refer to some of my early posts on this thread before you came in and see my attack on the RIAA and then you will know why i hate them!
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It?s not ironic that as you say to me ?YOU are the openly admitting pirate?. It?s absolutely f**king amazing. The majority of you are in denial with a significant minority who are out and out liars.
I said you are the openly admitting pirate because you are! Thats not ironic in 1 bit mate! You are the guy on this thread who decided to say Yes i steal and told your truth. What you dont seem to understand is when others on the thread said they dont steal, they may just be telling the truth. So.. you said out and out liars?? should i say anymore on it?
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But it?s still see you in court pirates. It will be interesting to see what the judge makes of your justifications and bullshit denials. I?d guess it?ll be big fines all round, lads.
Do you not understand when you are in an argument you are talking to your opposition, if you were arguing with a guy in front of you, you dont turn and shout at the guy accross the road. So, you were personally saying that to everyone in this thread you were arguing with!
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No, Dela, you're wrong. I don't only know what I do. I have a long and extensive experience of peer to peer file sharing and I know what is being shared out there. As do you if you'd only admit it. As does everyone else reading this thread. And it's almost entirely copyright material. It was on Napster and AudioGalaxy and it is on eMule, WinMX and all the others now. Save the bullshit for someone who might believe it.
When did i say that copyrighted material isnt shared?? I know people are doing it, I dsaid earlier in thread I know people are doing it so when you say save the bullshit for someone who might believe it, the only possible thing you could be refering to is the fact that i say i'm not a thief, i dont do what you do! Just because you do it doesn't mean i do!
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And if Dela is to be believed neither do the other 50,000 afterdawn users. This is impossible to take seriously. It?s complete nonsense.
The first line of that is what really got me pissed off! That was an attack on me, read it again and realise yourself, it was a personal attack, it implied that if i wasnt doing it, there is no way 50,000 other aD users could be! And whether thats what you meant or not, that is what 50,000 readers would pick it up as!
And as for your quoting from the dictionary, i do understand what those words mean, and if you read i never said that you said all material on p2p is copyrighted and never said a lot of people dont use it for piracy!
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But I?m definitely not saying all peer to peer users share copyright material just that anyone who has used any of the previously or currently available knows that nearly all are
Then why earlier on did you say, what do we all use it for if we dont download copyrighted material and stuff like that.
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Dela
Same quote again, and this seems really clear to me.
"In the first place I didn?t say Dela or theos or any individual other than myself were thieves. I said this is the way I behave and I believe that that behaviour makes me, and anyone behaving like me, a thief. I also said ?I apologise profusely to those very few of you to whom this doesn?t apply?. But for me and the vast majority of the rest of you as Bob Marley said ?who the cap fits, let them wear it?.?
But you did, you were speaking to those of us you were arguing with, its a basic argument over something. Like i said, you dont shout at the guy across the street!
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Dela
You are a repeated and passionate advocate of the peer to peer sharing of copyright material. For instance you said in an earlier post ?I dont do it myself but I cause a helluva lot of it with the emule tutorial and my posts in the filesharing forum.?
But you become mortally offended if anyone suggests or assumes that you, or any of the people you advocate the practice to, are actually doing it.
Huh?
I already replied to that at the start. It made me laugh man, sorry but it really did!!
Now with all the pointed out let me just state the following!!
The reason i quoted all that is because i'm very confussed (and im not the only one at all!) because you seem to change what you mean in later posts and wait for ages to explain what you meant! But if you read over those quotes man you will see how easily what you are saying can be misleading to say the very least! There might have been slight personal attacks in there, in response to your attempted person attack on me earlier.
All I am saying is realise who you were arguing with, then realise that anything you say will be picked up by your opposition as directly said to them. So no i didnt think you were DIRECTLY talking to me but you were definately talking to your opposition, which im included in since you joined the thread!
So before you go ahead now and write a 1000 word essay dissin me, remember that any attack i made is in response to something you said! Whether you meant it directly at me, or said it in such a way that it was aimed at every user on the thread but u can fall back and say it wasnt!
And finally to say, i dont want to get into anything personal with anyone here because i have done it before on this forum, i have nearly been banned on occasion for going about 150 miles over the top and insulting with posts that are bigger this one but i think myself that i have steped back from that a lot and i aint going back to it again! So, 1. any music i downloaded was to test before buying, this resulted in more purchased cd's than i ever did, 2. My opinions on the RIAA arent because they are a threat to p2p, its because they closed their eyes and call it a problem and blame it for everything and etc etc... you guys already know! 3. I wont have anyone imply that i'm lying about it because i'm not or call me thief!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. June 2003 @ 23:31
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Piledrive
Newbie
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27. June 2003 @ 11:05 |
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First off I would like to say to Dela the only one on here that is ignorant is you. Because it seems like you won't admit that what P2P promotes is not friendly file sharing but stealing.
I have read all the posts on here and there is not one of you that have convinced me yet that what you are doing is not stealing. I've just heard on CNN last night that the person responsible for making an illegal copy of The Hulk available online before it hit the theaters is under arrest. Why? Why is what he did illegal but people that provide music online before it is released not? The law protects money hungry movie makers who are paying Jim Carrey 25 million a movie and George Lucas but they don't protect Metallica or AC/DC?
There is nothing that can prove to me that a P2P user that shares music online that he didn't pay for is no different from a common thief that walks into Tower to steal a cd and shoves it down his pants. I dare any of you P2P users to walk into your favorite CD store and steal a cd. I know you won't. Why? Because you would feel guilty and you know it is morally wrong. Why then I ask? Is what you are doing online any different?
No matter how you slice it YOU ARE STEALING!!!!!
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
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Praetor
Moderator
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27. June 2003 @ 11:22 |
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There is nothing that can prove to me that a P2P user that shares music online that he didn't pay for is no different from a common thief that walks into Tower to steal a cd and shoves it down his pants.
Very open-minded of you. If you want to [convince people of your point of view, be it right or wrong, you cant go about telling them how to think. You need to:
1. Give reasons
2. BE PREPARED TO ACCEPT THE FACT THAT THEY MAY not AGREE WITH YOU.
3. You cannot convince people of your point of view if you constantly attack them and make personal comments (think for a second, how many teachers and proffessors make open personal attacks against their students?)
"You guys are just to chicken shit to do it in person so you hide behind your computers.
You are pathetic and make me sick!!!!!! "
"Get off your fucking soapbox and stop trying to be such an elitist."
Statements like these help NOBODY least of all you.
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Piledrive
Newbie
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27. June 2003 @ 11:30 |
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I need to convice no one of my point of view.
I don't care if they agree with me
I already gave my reasons
As for being open minded...yes I am. Do I appreciate people stealing? NO I DON'T. Did I offend you with my posts? GOOD!
I'm not on here to make friends or candy coat the subject. I speak my mind and that is it.
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2003 @ 11:32
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ABMone
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. June 2003 @ 11:44 |
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While if you didn't come on here to make a point or try to change someones mind then your obviously here to make personal attacks and accusing people of doing something they may or may not be doing.
Dela has been preaching this for the last three pages and saying not too attack him by specifically calling him out as you just did again by calling him IGNORANT
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Piledrive
Newbie
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27. June 2003 @ 11:57 |
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obviously you didn't read dela's last point where he said
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Excuse me we had every right to step in when he said all p2p users are common criminals, and then went ahead to be ignorant and made a few cheeky comments towards me for trying to point out that p2p could be used in his favour or the favour of any artist!
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2003 @ 11:58
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ABMone
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27. June 2003 @ 12:07 |
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O i read it and since were going back to previous posts your the one who said that the artists who dont give up music to the apples itunes are missing out.
And everyone here said artists are getting that same opportunity with p2p on the whole preview before you buy comments.
Im still not sure why you would waste your time here for what please explain what you want accomplished
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ABMone
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27. June 2003 @ 12:11 |
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Dela stepped in to defend all that is wrong on what your saying.
IF were not all thieves and you call us all thieves then your making a judgement call on many people in this forum and people arent gonna stand for it.
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Praetor
Moderator
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27. June 2003 @ 12:11 |
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Quote:
I need to convice no one of my point of view.
I don't care if they agree with me
I already gave my reasons
As for being open minded...yes I am. Do I appreciate people stealing? NO I DON'T. Did I offend you with my posts? GOOD!
I'm not on here to make friends or candy coat the subject. I speak my mind and that is it.
The words of a true musician.
Anyways, you say "I don't care if they agree with me" yet you continue to drag on and on about how badly musicians get it -- why on earth would you do such a thing? Seems like a waste of time trying to convince the rest of us about the bad aspects of P2P if you dont care to convince us at all. You say you are a musician, a true artist. Well then, know this: a true artist cares about what his/her audience feel.
Having gone through these posts i am further and further convinced that you are some rich-punka$$ snob that has nothing better to do that go around criticizing people for percieved injustices. Another point: P2P is not sentient, it is not alive, it doesnt care what happens around it. Therefore it does not PROMOTE piracy or what not. People (and from my not so-recent experience in highschool, mostly punka$$ rich snobs) promote piracy.
You challenge us to "I dare any of you P2P users to walk into your favorite CD store and steal a cd.". Fine. Since you dont care about any of us or anything and you're so openminded (quote: As for being open minded...yes I am. Do I appreciate people stealing? NO I DON'T. Did I offend you with my posts? GOOD) then i present a challenge to you: walk around town and insult every person you encounter. It seems that you are doing the same here but, as you quite aptly put it, "You guys are just to chicken shit to do it in person so you hide behind your computers" -- so why dont you about doing it in the real world. (hey i got even a better idea if ur lazy and stuff: the next time you perform, go curse out your audience -- after all what do you have to lose? You dont care).
You say that you have been a musician for 22 years. I will assume for argument sake that you are 25... for a 25 year old (wo)man, you certainly seem immature and and naiive as to the workings of society. Well let me be charitable:
1= You dont care about us and our feelings.
2= You insult us without know who we are (yet you take insult when we "insult" you when we dont know who you are)
3= We ignore you and your petulant snobbish attitude
4= You want us to listen to your message of "stop stealing"
A little math lesson for you. 1+2=3 not 4
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. June 2003 @ 12:12
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Piledrive
Newbie
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27. June 2003 @ 12:13 |
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at least with iTunes musicians will get some money. are you digging into your wallet everytime you download a song off kazaa or whatever?
obviously nothing will be accomplished on this board because promoters of p2p think it's ok to steal.
do I think p2p users are ignorant? yes I do. because they won't take the blinders off to see that what thet are doing is wrong.
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
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Piledrive
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27. June 2003 @ 12:16 |
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if someone steals in front of me i have no problem confronting them. what you are saying "to go insult everyone on the street" is totally irrelevant. if i see them stealing in a store you better believe i will confront them.
i am done with you cand ass bitches. you still are thieves so face it.... good bye
Kazaa, Napster and P2P suck and so do the people that use it!!!!!
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ABMone
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27. June 2003 @ 12:16 |
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I see nothing wrong with previewing songs to be bought or deleted depending on how good it is.
I realize not everybody deletes it afterward but when you say P2P users you are refering to everyone who uses it.
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ABMone
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27. June 2003 @ 12:20 |
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When you are about to start a concert do you yell anybody who downloads my s*** has to leave the premises if you did there would probably be a lot of angry fans waiting for you in a back alley.
and im pretty sure you wouldnt confront them.
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