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Neph's POLITE Gun Debate
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Senior Member
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14. August 2006 @ 17:33 |
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gerry1 please don't depart from this as you and I have a different view on some things I like your point as something to ponder over and your a perfect gentleman with your take on this. On another note the first law being put forth in Michigan that has any merit to give rights back to the citizens and not the crimnals is that a person breaking in can be shot with no repercussions to the home owner.The problem I have is how many people will go out and purchase a shot gun or pistol for home defense and never take a course on the using of these weapons for home defense or shooting in general.Since most home defense is aout 6 or 7 foot how many will be able to do the basic or get hurt or neighbors or passer bys.[like using a shotgun with slugs or a 44 mag 320 grainer]The only hope I see is the possible slow down of home invasions. But if it's the addicts that have got to get that high there past the point of caring so the vicious circle comes back to protect yourself if you have to, but pray there will be enforcement of the laws already there and no more leniency from the courts with full prosecution. This has been a very civil column basically and I enjoy the views of all but keep it toned since gerry1 is thinking about departing how many other people like myself have been following this up till I posted the other day and it started getting heated that I would like to see their different views also.You know like teach and learn I read and think and learn. Sorry about the long wind. Chris
removing firearms from the hands of people using them for self-defense is definately NOT one of them. Sandt I totally agree
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. August 2006 @ 17:35
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Senior Member
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14. August 2006 @ 23:22 |
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I blame the mayor, in large part, because he has a great deal of political and social power to do good - or harm, including the planned blighting of neighborhoods. Specifically, he has the power to crack down on particular problems, enact tougher laws, and provide moral direction. Furthermore, as Pennsylvania's judges are elected rather than appointed, he does have some political clout - if nothing else, the bully pulpit - to hold judges accountable for handing down weak penalties.
I mentioned a specific example earlier: That the Street administration is trying to kick the Boy Scouts out of their publicly-owned headquarters, rather than cracking down on gangs. The ostensible reason is the Boy Scout's position on gays in their organization, but the fact is, this is one of the few organizations out there that can and does draw young people away from trouble. Yet another example is how the city is spending time, money, and political clount investigating the owner of Geno's Steaks. Geno's, if you haven't heard, put up a sign to the effect of, "When ordering, speak English". Rather than simply let Geno's customer's vote with their feet (and wallets), the heavy-handed City of Philadelphia is spending money and time to investigate whether or not they can take civil rights' action against Geno's. Even if they could, the effect would be to run a world-famous, long-standing, tax-paying, tourist attraction out of town.
And don't get me started on the the mayor and the Section 8 mess he and his party have let loose on Philadelphia. THAT, probably more than anything else, is the cause of the spike in Philly's crime rate. Politicians use Section 8 to run neighborhoods into the ground, so that they can be declared blighted and the properties bought up cheaply and redeveloped. Section 8 was, at one time, relegated only to a few, already f---ed up neighborhoods, but, courtesy of Street, Section 8 is moving outward, into nicer areas, like middle-class Port Richmond and further into Northeast Philly. Interestingly, what Gerry pointed out only seems to reaffirm my point and refute his: Ed Rendell may share blame for some of these problems (he was the mayor of Philly before he became governor), but Rendell was another far-leftist, who was elected mayor mainly because he has a (D) after his name. And Rendell, like Street and most of the city council, have tried to blame guns/the NRA/everyone else, rather than themselves.
So, yes, the politicians deserve some blame here. Sure, parents, media violence/influences, drugs, etc. play a significant causative role in crime and violence, but they are not the only factors.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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aabbccdd
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14. August 2006 @ 23:38 |
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Dunker, i agree with you 100% BUT theres a new rule here . read this
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/379741
this is from the man!!!!
we have hashed about every angle of this debate and this thread has probably ran its course. we will let Neph decide if it should continue
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Senior Member
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15. August 2006 @ 10:45 |
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Lot's of good points made here and 99% under control and softly stated and after the new rules and follow gerry1 having spoke my piece and let this thread rest. Thank you all for your points of view and giving me some meat to chew on. You all have a good day and maybe some day the peace will come without any more sacrificing of rights in any departments. Chris
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Moderator
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15. August 2006 @ 13:18 |
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*** I guess there's still interest so I'm happy to say that this one's open for business again :)***
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 15. August 2006 @ 14:16
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aabbccdd
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15. August 2006 @ 22:29 |
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Nephilim, I'M glad you decided to keep it open. do you have any good sites to buy amio. need some 9mmm rounds
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. August 2006 @ 03:51 |
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Glad it's open again. I'll retract my bitch from the bitch thread. I was under the impression that you were made to close it.
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Senior Member
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16. August 2006 @ 05:47 |
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You don't reload aabbccdd? Real easy to do if you pay attention bought my kit from Gander Mountain 30 years ago and it is still going strong. Unfortunately the laws in the states prevent one from mail ordering primers and powder and even bullets if I'm correct unless you have a federal firearms dealer license. Buy all my stuff lately from Bass Pro SHops, reasonably priced and well stocked.
http://www.basspro.com/servlet/catalog.OnlineShopping
I stand corrected, they will ship Ammo via UPS, interesting.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. August 2006 @ 05:58
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aabbccdd
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16. August 2006 @ 10:12 |
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blivetNC, i don't reload the 9mm rounds its not cost effective BUT i do reloading my .45 shells
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Senior Member
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16. August 2006 @ 10:45 |
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I've gotten better accuracy using reloaded 22-250 Remington and cheaper, didn't realize 9MM didn't save as much, interesting.
As far as home defense, kinda nervous about the apartment, townhome, and condo dwellers who use large caliber handguns. I personally would be nervous about discharging a firearm in close proximity to my neighbors in the case I missed and the round went through a few walls before lodging in my neighbor. Using a 12 Ga with #9 shot, I don't thnk it would go thru many walls at all. Never tried it and hope that I never find out, where I live now there is enough space between houses so I don't worry about missing with a shotgun.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. August 2006 @ 10:48
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Member
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16. August 2006 @ 16:40 |
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22-250 brass is alot more expensive (and difficult to come by) than 9mm brass ;). But nines are a dime a dozen, unlike the $20 250s
BlivetNC... Where in NC? We just had a Gander Mountain open in the Triad region (right at the Four Seasons Mall ;) ). I assume the Charlotte area since I see BassPro, but if the Triad is closer they have a nice reload section.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. August 2006 @ 16:41
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aabbccdd
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16. August 2006 @ 21:14 |
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yeah the 9mm ammo runs about 20 bucks a 100 at my local wal-mart so i just buy it
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Senior Member
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16. August 2006 @ 22:22 |
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near Charlotte, I saw the Gander mountain commercials on the local channel. Bass Pro kinda spoiled me, a Toys-R-Us for dads. I just like reloading shotshells and rifle rounds to get them fine tuned for extreme accuracy, the funny thing is that I am using the same setup for the past 30 years, except for the bullets themselves.
@aabbccdd, never priced 9MM rounds, didn't realize they were so cheap to begin with.
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aabbccdd
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16. August 2006 @ 22:40 |
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yeah thats what is so great about having a 9mm there great to target shoot with plus the ammio is inexpensive. i save my .45 for home protection and just shoot it occasionly btw heres a pic of my .45
It's A Beast LOL !!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. August 2006 @ 22:49
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Senior Member
2 product reviews
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17. August 2006 @ 00:04 |
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don't worry about this post. my bad
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. August 2006 @ 00:50
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aabbccdd
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17. August 2006 @ 00:29 |
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Bubba1982, why did you post that here?/ this is a gun thread and both sigs are within the rules anyway
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Senior Member
2 product reviews
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17. August 2006 @ 00:51 |
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i realised that both were fine directly after I posted. so nm.
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aabbccdd
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17. August 2006 @ 01:00 |
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well this is the second thread that you have done this in . did you edit the other post too?
WTF is going on tonight is it a full moon!!!
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Senior Member
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17. August 2006 @ 11:50 |
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Quote:
I personally would be nervous about discharging a firearm in close proximity to my neighbors in the case I missed and the round went through a few walls before lodging in my neighbor.
Frangibles are designed to prevent that. IIRC, Glasers aren't supposed to penetrate sheetrock. I don't know how the penetration of Glasers stacks up against #9 shot, though.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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Moderator
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17. August 2006 @ 11:57 |
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I've been reloading for nearly 20 years now and thoroughly enjoy it. I'm set up to load, 9mm, .45 ACP, .38 Special/.357 Magnum, .40 S&W, .44 Magnum, .303 British, .243 Winchester, .35 Remington and .223 Remington (I kinda like the hobby).
9mm can be had dirt cheap but if a fella buys his components wisely he can still save a few bucks and get great accuracy. I've a load I worked up for my Browning Hi Power that consistently shoots within 1.5" at 25 yards - better than any reasonable factory load I've tried :)
I have a Hi Power Practical like this one,
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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Moderator
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17. August 2006 @ 12:02 |
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My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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Senior Member
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17. August 2006 @ 15:03 |
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[Note to self] Don't mess with Neph[/note to self]
The increase in accuracy when you find the right combo of powder, primer and bullet is amazing, the 22-250 Remington will group inside of .25" at 100 yards consistantly. Mr woodchuck doesn't stand a chance with this combo.
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Moderator
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17. August 2006 @ 16:37 |
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Boy, you sure said it Blivet - when you find the right powder and bullet for a gun it'll come alive on that target!
The .22/250 is an amazing cartridge and I honestly don't think a bad thing can be said about it. I've a Savage stainless Model 12 (heavy 26" barrel, laminated target stock) in that caliber and it's dandy to shoot. My present living situation doesn't allow me to have my loading bench here so I haven't loaded for it but off the shelf Remington 55gr varmint loads have gone three shots in one ragged hole if I can pay enough attention to shoot right :P
Talking about varmints here's a funny reloading story, years back me and my dad had a Ruger 77 in .243 Winchester and I'd got started loading those 70 gr. Hornady SX (super explosive) bullets in it and that was an interesting project. I'd started off with a modest charge of H414 and loaded ten rounds each of 1/2 grain increments up to the max listed load to go test at the range. I got to the range and started testing the loads and everything was going fine until about I started on a ten round string that was a grain and a half under max. What happened was I shot a round - no hole. Shot another - no hole. Checked the scope rings - everything's still tight. Shot another - no hole. Now I'm baffled so I go out and move the target in to 50 yards. I take two more shots - no holes. Really bewildered now I move the target in to 25 yards (looking like a fool shooting a scoped rifle at 25 yards). I take one shot and the target looks like it was hit with a shotgun.
What I didn't realize at first is those Hornadys were made with an extremely thin jacket and when I drove them too fast they plumb came apart right after exiting the barrel. Once I got the velocity right under the point of coming apart they did a hell of a job on prairie dogs! Those dogs literally exploded when hit! Another doozy for the .243 was the Sierra 60 gr. FBHP.
Anyone else have a "Duh!!!" type reloading story?
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. August 2006 @ 16:57 |
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No but I have a duh! friend story about 45 years ago one of my good friends decided he would shoot a 22 bullet in his plastic suction cup toy dart gun. When he was in the hospital and they dug out the exploded scrapnel. He was a daredevil and risk taker. He was also an AAU world champion on the trampoline. And he died young 20 in a crop duster plane doing loops.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. August 2006 @ 16:57
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Senior Member
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17. August 2006 @ 18:00 |
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My high school buddy was putting a new scope on his Remington 700 30-06, had it in a vise, was checking the clearance between the bolt handle and the scope, chambered a couple of rounds, put his dumba$$ hat on, forgot about the round in the chamber, squeezed the trigger and got a confirmed kill on two cans of his dad's house paint. Range 15 feet, aqua green paint everywhere.
Speaking of Hornaday bullets, they are extremly thin skinned, and when I tried either 52 or 53 grain bullets, loaded up to 3800 fps, they started to keyhole on me at 25 yards, similar to your experience. slowed them down to 3400 fps and they weren't very accurate. Threw the rest away, worthless.
Stuck with Sierra after that. 52 gr. HPBT. Mr. woodchuck's nightmare.
Still have a few targets to show the daughters what will happen if their boyfriend decides to get cute on them. Also showed them just how far 600 yards is. Ah, the joys of parenting.
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