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Neph's POLITE Gun Debate
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28. February 2007 @ 20:53 |
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a vaccuum's purpose is to clean....A gun's purpose is to kill. It doesn't matter if you say it's just for target practice/whatever. The reason it was created was to shoot things. Just so people understand, let's take a knife as an example. Everyone knows that we use knives everyday to make food/make tools/build things. Although we unfortunately kill eachother with knives, that wasn't their purpose. A gun isn't for any of these things. It's reason for being created is to shoot stuff and make it dead. (mispronounced intentianally)
oh, and zippy, you are right :)
However, what is strange is that despite the fact that i detest guns, I love first person shooters like halo, call of duty, doom. I guess killing people is fun in video games, not real life.
Sam fisher watches youThis message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. February 2007 @ 21:00
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28. February 2007 @ 21:15 |
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Originally posted by antomic:
a vaccuum's purpose is to clean....A gun's purpose is to kill. It doesn't matter if you say it's just for target practice/whatever. The reason it was created was to shoot things. Just so people understand, let's take a knife as an example. Everyone knows that we use knives everyday to make food/make tools/build things. A gun isn't for any of these things. It's reason for being created is to shoot stuff and make it dead. (mispronounced intentianally)
oh, and zippy, you are right :)
However, what is strange is that despite the fact that i detest guns, I love first person shooters like halo, call of duty, doom. I guess killing people is fun in video games, not real life.
Ya guns are "clean" and "simple" it gives me the willies messing with them(and cars/trucks) however fictional weapons make me wet 0-o
I am a die hard fps fan however I hate real war sims I want fun weapons not watered down realistic crap :P
I hate modern game weapons so much I have gotten back into coding (D3/Q4 paused,UT03/04 slow) it seems every game past 2k has to have nerfy weak unfun weapons.
heres my blog on my 03 stuff getting in 04 soon to :3
http://blog.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseac...396A96A36063490
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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1. March 2007 @ 10:21 |
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I want to say right now fellas here and everyone that mightpost, we have differing opinions that the owners of have every right to and we WILL NOT get nasty to each other. Okies?
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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1. March 2007 @ 10:25 |
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Originally posted by Nephilim:
I want to say right now fellas here and everyone that mightpost, we have differing opinions that the owners of have every right to and we WILL NOT get nasty to each other. Okies?
Sorry are we going to far offtopic?
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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Senior Member
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1. March 2007 @ 12:27 |
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If guns exist only to kill, why do we allow police to carry them? That's impossible to justify, by that logic. Are we paying police expressly to kill?
A gun's primary purpose, hunting aside, is to protect living things from harm by other living things. Hunting weapons, yeah, they are designed for killing.
With respect to first-person shooting games, by that logic, I guess it's okay to train people - especially kids - to become efficient killers, but not to let citizens actually have the means to protect themselves from such nuts.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. March 2007 @ 12:27
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1. March 2007 @ 12:45 |
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Quote:
For example, when the hell are you ever going to go hunting with a hand gun, or an AK-47?
I'll bite :)
Big game hunting has certain seasons for which you can legally take game. This main season is broken up into several individual seasons dedicated to specific weapons - archery, rifle, blackpowder/muzzleloader and handgun. You see, not only do people hunt with handguns but enough do so to warrant an alloted season just for handgun hunting. The type of handguns run the whole range of types from purposely built single shot hunting models all the way to the "bad" types that criminals frequently use. Any "man killer" .357 Magnum revolver is perfectly legal and capable of harvesting game up to the size of deer. The all black, menacing looking Glock combat/self defense automatic in 10mm caliber is every bit as powerful and useful in taking game up to deer. Both of these guns are actively used for game so it's not a hypothetical statement.
As for the AK it has the power and practical accuracy for short-range hunting and is used very often for that. The 7.62X39 cartridge it uses is a dandy short-range deer round and soft-point hunting loads are made by just about every major ammunition company. Regulations require 4 or5 round cartridge limit and semi-automatic only rifles so any visions of someone popping out of the bushes and mowing down a deer with a 30 round magazine emptied on full auto are fantasy.
Military type guns are extremely popular because they are so versatile and practical. Good quality rifles start at about $500 and go up quickly from there. Not everybody has the money to have a whole closet full of task-specific rifles. If I can only afford asingle rifle I'm getting the most versatile one I can and military type rifles are tops in the versatility department. I have Ruger Mini-14 semi-automatic 5.56mm rifle that frequently makes whatever new "let's ban these ones" list they come up with. If I could only have one rifle it would be the Mini-14 because I use it for target shooting, cheap ammo makes it good for plinking in the desert, varmint hunting, javelina hunting, hog hunting, home defense and bear or mountain lion medicine while camping. It'll not only accomplish all these task but it'll do them very well. I can't think of a rifle type that would do as well in all departments as the Mini will. The ammo associated with military rifles is always significantly cheaper than other non-military calibers - another benfit for the budget conscious.
Quote:
Their purpose is to shoot stuff and make things dead.
Yup, they were. People and game. Too many people gloss over the game part except to call us Bambi killers. While folks take an idealistic stance against guns because of war and crime they tend to ignore just how many people worldwide survive because they have a gun to hunt with or to defend themselves. There are thousands of families here in the U.S. that depend on deer and elk taken each season in order to keep food costs down
. 100 to 400 pounds of meat depending on the game will last through to the next season. Tally up how much you spend each year on meat and you'll see what I mean. If you're a vegetarian ask someone who eats meat ;) Millions upon millions of people around the world throughout the history of the gun avoided starvation because they had a gun to harvest game. Spears and arrows worked alright but the gun enabled a steadier supply with less effort. Believe it or not there was a time before a grocery store chock full of every meat you could desire and folks had to get the meat on their own.
A common gripe against the "assault type" rifles is that they have no other purpose than to kill people but nothing could be further from the truth. They happen to be some of the most robust, efficient and versatile firearms available. Thousands of ranchers like the durability they offer as a knock around rifle kept in the truck for driving off predators and pests. Mountain lions and coyotes will kill the young and the adults can break their legs from the holes that prairie dogs make. I've seen it personally and it's sad. They starve to death because they can't lean down to feed with a busted front leg. She had a calf that wasn't going to make it because she couldn't produce milk in her condition. Like your beef prices low? Take a look a the prices when ranchers have no way to keep predators multiply and feel safe enough to start knocking off calf after calf.
There are folks that think hunting isn't even a legitimate use for guns but they're flat out wrong. Most of these folks are enthusiastic environmentalist who profess a deep concern for the earth and all its animals but do you want to know where the alot of the money the Forest Service and Game and Fish survives on? It's hunters, that's who. All the permits, taxes and tags they must buy generate a huge amount of revenue. I've never seen lines of tree huggers waiting pay their part.
The thinning of certain species' populations is a natural process that keeps the remaining animals strong and healthy. In the absence of natural predators it us hunters that keep this process going. When the herds aren't thinned starvation and disease will set in. I suppose wasting away from disease or starvation is better than a clean shot from a hunter. Each season Game and Fish determines how many animals need to be culled to keep the general population healthy and that's all that are allowed to be taken. When tree huggers get their way and hunting is banned they end up killing as many or more deer than us hunters do except with their method the deer die inhumanely.
How is all this possible? Guns in the hands of ordinary citizens. Even the scary ones that folks have been brainwashed into thinking are more dangerous than any other ordinary rifle.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 1. March 2007 @ 12:58
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1. March 2007 @ 12:48 |
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Zippy,
We're perfectly fine buddy. It's just that this subject tends to get nasty and as soon as I saw a differing opinion I wanted to make sure everyone kept it chill. We want debate, not bad feelings and ill will :)
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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1. March 2007 @ 12:56 |
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neph I HAD THIS POSTED IN ANOTHER THREAD
i belong to this club,its 8 miles from my camp in the mountains
New Baltimore Sportsman's Club
Address: , New Baltimore, PA, United States
http://www.newbaltimoresportsmans.com/
for got to say this the web page sucks and not updated..
bride has fun,she plays the tip boards and we end up with steaks,ham,pork chops,shrimp..she is always seams to be a winner.
beer is 75 cents shots a dollar...
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1. March 2007 @ 13:01 |
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Damn, that looks like a nice club. Hopefully they don't serve beer and shots on the shooting range :0
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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1. March 2007 @ 13:11 |
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Went i come back from the dollar store as i found a dollar and we will eat for a week on that buck..,i will try if not today post some pixs...
for got it cost 25.00 a year..i shoot there all the time or in my back yard at my camp..all my boys and girla also do some shooting..
my camp is 200 acres in size...
cheers
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1. March 2007 @ 13:27 |
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Nephilim
ah oh well :P
--------
BTW the gun was invented to kill other humans first and foremost it only become a hunting tool after you could carry a few shoots and the balls and powder were cheap enough for common folk.
but that aside learning to aim correctly and target practice can be fun :P
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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1. March 2007 @ 17:21 |
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Wow! 200 acres is a very nice spread. Must be nice.................................................
You've a good point Zippy but then again it's been that way from stone age clubs (club your neighbor then go club your dinner) to spears to bow and arrow and beyond. Our species has proved very adept at coming up with newer, better ways to kill each other.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
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1. March 2007 @ 18:27 |
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Originally posted by Nephilim:
Wow! 200 acres is a very nice spread. Must be nice.................................................
You've a good point Zippy but then again it's been that way from stone age clubs (club your neighbor then go club your dinner) to spears to bow and arrow and beyond. Our species has proved very adept at coming up with newer, better ways to kill each other.
I always try and carry my points in a balanced format...water proof, light,easy to load and doubly effective for the price...because I am cheap :P
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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Member
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2. March 2007 @ 17:00 |
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Originally posted by Dunker:
If guns exist only to kill, why do we allow police to carry them? That's impossible to justify, by that logic. Are we paying police expressly to kill?
A gun's primary purpose, hunting aside, is to protect living things from harm by other living things. Hunting weapons, yeah, they are designed for killing.
With respect to first-person shooting games, by that logic, I guess it's okay to train people - especially kids - to become efficient killers, but not to let citizens actually have the means to protect themselves from such nuts.
We wouldn't need guns to protect ourselves from other people with guns if society didn't have them in the first place. We, together as humans, are not responsible enough to own guns. It's like saying you have the right to launch a nuclear warhead for your own protection. in only hurts us.
Sam fisher watches you
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 2. March 2007 @ 17:02
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michelle9
Junior Member
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2. March 2007 @ 17:02 |
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I have so got to get in on this debate!! Speaking from a womans point of veiw(which would be fortunate as I am a woman) I'm very adamant on the right to protect myself! Womens lib aside, it's just a fact that men are stronger than women and as a woman living in a rural area alone I depend on having a gun to protect myself. I also made sure I would have less reason to use it by making it known that I had a gun. The police are not bodyguards for crying out loud. They come to the scene after the fact most of the time. The only person with you 24/7 is yourself, your the only one who's going to have the ability to protect yourself, no one else is going to do it for you. A spray or a knife can be easily wrested away from me, with a projectile weapon I stand a chance at least.
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2. March 2007 @ 17:12 |
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well, i guess it doesn't matter... If we weren't killing eachother with guns, we kill eachother with lasers or something......I give up.
Sam fisher watches you
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Senior Member
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2. March 2007 @ 17:21 |
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I've built 2 whole computers with 4 burners and much other stuff from Newegg, they are the best.
Exactly. People were killing each other quite effectively long before guns were invented, and will be killing each other with whatever comes next. At least a gun evens the odds, as Michelle9 pointed out. And we, as humans, are arguably not responsible enough to own lots of things - especially automobiles - but we have them and we need them.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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ddp
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2. March 2007 @ 17:23 |
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antomic, there is an old saying in that man is the most sadistic animal known on earth in that man will pick on it's own kind just for the hell of it. no sane animal does that except for man.
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2. March 2007 @ 17:32 |
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Originally posted by ddp:
antomic, there is an old saying in that man is the most sadistic animal known on earth in that man will pick on it's own kind just for the hell of it. no sane animal does that except for man.
Precisely. no matter what we do, We'll still end up killing eachother. The only way to really save ourselves would be to wipe out the human race.....no one wants to do that.
Sam fisher watches you
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michelle9
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2. March 2007 @ 17:49 |
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There are bullies in every species dear, ever see how the rest of the litter will treat the runt? The only way not to be a vicitim is not to be a victim. If no one ever stood up to those who would dominate with sadistic aims there would probably already be no human race. Freedom requires a price. Whether it be social, religious or personal freedom there is always a price. Fair enough.
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ddp
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2. March 2007 @ 17:59 |
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michelle, but that is survival of the fittest & that is not the case with man
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michelle9
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2. March 2007 @ 18:27 |
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Yeah, I've noticed how many complete idiots are running around out there too,(lol) but man is an animal that will self sacrifice the one for the many. That's the kind of stuff that heros are made of. This is more of a philosophical debate of a different calibre, but I personally have respect for the man who will stand by their values and accept the consequences, both good and bad, for their beliefs and values. Everything I believe in I believe in for a reason and I know what that reason is. I have little respect for those whose answer to everything is "Well....just because" or who go on about how things should be and not face how things are. Life's not fair and that's a fact. By the way, that fact works in your favor quite often.
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2. March 2007 @ 18:28 |
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Man acts like any other predator species useing its claws and teeth(bullets and bombs) to fight tis way to the "top" using power(organized power any idoit with a army)
"religion"(organized religion IE crusades)
faith(lets help others and never get any respect from the world)
When man roams into a new area is not pretty,neither are predators find a new clean area to hunt,the sad thing is humans no better but in the end are still animals after all.
My point is there can be PLENTY of things wrong with man ,guns are kinda low on the list,if guns were made illegal the underground would still have plenty to spare putting the civilian populace in more danger than having said populace understand and respect guns and let them try and use them right before losing that indavenal right,the same can be said for media be it books,video or music some claim these kill on a larger degree than civilian guns so lets start burning books again and be ignorant of all that roams in light or shadow.................
somewhere in it all there is a balance and thats what I try and look for.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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2. March 2007 @ 18:41 |
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michelle9
wolfes and large cats most predtors regularly cast out their own this can be seen as sacrificing for the needs of the group the many thus man turly is a animal but one that can think how badly thigns are while keeping to the path most predators species take.
we can do better but rarely keep to it because of basic needs and the reality of things.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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michelle9
Junior Member
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2. March 2007 @ 18:45 |
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Of course there's balance! I mentioned heros before and there are plenty of people willing to stand up for what's right and good in mankind. The dreamers, builders, artists, inventors...these are the people who are building things, creating beauty, etc...though entropy is the first law of physics, many useful and beautiful things are created from ruin.
Poison kills also, and is much more insidious and difficult to detect. Are you going to outlaw all poison now too? Do you think you could? Many things in life can be used for good or ill. Guns are no exception.
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