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2. February 2010 @ 16:04 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
So you would say, no matter which brand a person goes, there is always the risk of a Driver bug. Which is too bad. But, a reality! I suppose I should understand that better than most. I have experienced certain flaws, which I would attribute to the nvidia driver. If ati is at least equal in that respect, I should cut them more slack :p



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2. February 2010 @ 16:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
There's only one real bug with ATI drivers that they refuse to cure at the moment. That is that if you are ever running two games simultaneously, the clock speeds will not return to 2D on the slave graphics cards, only the master. The only problem this creates is more power usage/heat/noise at the desktop, an issue for the HD4870X2, but would go unnoticed on an HD5850/5870 except for on your power bill. Clearly, this issue cannot affect single cards as well. Other than that it's the usual X/Y/Z game isn't optimised for dual graphics.
Crossfire gets a bad rap for game support but it's much better in the last year or so than it has been, and most importantly, the game I play at least 50-70 times as much as any other that requires dual graphics is Left 4 Dead, where crossfire scaling is up to 100% for dual cards and at least 200-220% for quads. Contrast that to SLI which essentially makes no difference, two GTX285s may as well be one GTX285. That's a big plus point for me using Crossfire over SLI.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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updated 10-Dec-13
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2. February 2010 @ 16:21 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
if nvidia was doing it sam, there would have been outrage but most people on lots of forums dont mind the price becuase ATI are an underdog.

we really shouldnt encourage high prices, competition or not. hell Intel dont have competition for the 920 but its still a good price at £200.

yes amd are doing better know due to ati but for a long peroid they wernt, and didnt have the money to due that to compete with intel. personally the 1.25b payout by intel and global foundries are the reaosn AMD madea profit this year (and then only just about). not sure if they will next year, as there wont be another 1.25b injection.

ATI drivers, for me as a single card user (even with my one 4870x2) have been perfectly fine. id assume the problems would come with more than one card, btu thats to be expected.

and lolowut at SLIGTX285 being a single GTX285. even more lolwut at 200-220% scaling for quad cards. thats a real fail.



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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2. February 2010 @ 16:32 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I wouldn't encourage price gouging. After all, given the lack of competition there's nothing to stop ATI charging MARS295 prices for the HD5970. Given the sales of the MARS, and the availability of the HD5970.
Frankly, for what they are, the hd5850,5870 and 5970 are reasonably priced. Annoyingly expensive, but still reasonably priced. Ho hum. The fact that ATI are willing to drop prices if the GTX480 is competitive is reason enough not to doubt them.
What you say is right, not so long ago AMD propped up ATI, now it's the reverse.
I only forsee AMD making a profit next year if they either release an amazing new CPU, or if ATI do well enough to prop up AMD again for the whole year.
What's a real fail? The GTX295 doesn't come close to matching the 4870X2 in Left 4 Dead, but 200-220% scaling as an at least hardly seems fail to me.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
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updated 10-Dec-13
harvrdguy
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3. February 2010 @ 15:50 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Hey, Jeff sent me an invite and I jumped in with him and some friends on Left 4 Dead 2 last night. That was fun! They talked a lot about Mass Effect, lol.

Originally posted by sam:
The fire rate of uzi vs colt is non-sensical, the L4D2 Uzi fire rate is substantially increased from the old version with the ammo capacity upped
Hmmmm. So you HAVE noticed some rate of fire tweaking.

Other L4D2 news: I thought I was doing great finally learning how to get through Mall on expert - hugging the walls (keep your back to a wall at all times is my motto, which was working pretty well for Jeff and me when we were left with two bots.)

Then last night Anubis, a "deep south accent guy" (he out-souths Ellis by a huge margin - I can barely understand him half the time, lol) jumped in on Mall, and had us rushing through it.

Jeff - that happened right after you left.

So for the Mall rush, we just kept going, shooting anything in front of us, and not worrying about what was behind us. I jumped into the room on the right not knowing where the other guys were, after climbing the broken door, and promptly got incapped by a huge horde that I wasn't expecting. Anubis came back, got me up, and after healing we caught up with the rest of the guys who had already run the alarm and were waiting outside the safe room.

I thought I was so great learning, after hours and hours, to do it the slow plodding way - but the rushing was almost too easy by comparison. I think I'll try that a bunch more times, haha.

Originally posted by sam:
The new Battlefield: Bad Company 2 Beta has been benchmarked, and it's a monster!

Looks like we have finally hit the era where mainstream multiplayer games will bring PCs to their knees in the same way as Crysis did for the single player market.
Oh my god - I don't even see 2560x1600 anywhere on the chart!!

Originally posted by omega:
People sure like war, don't they LOL! Well...as long as it's all in good fun, and only for entertainment purposes ;)
Kevin, what are you talking about? Haven't you heard about all those Xbox 360s that Al-queda has ordered for training purposes?

LOL

Originally posted by kevin:
Besides, according to sam's post, I won't be able to run it the way it's meant to be played anyway
ditto me on all of that!

Originally posted by sam:
and as for 2560x1600, probably four HD5890s, when they come out, unless you clock the bals off a pair of HD5970s. The game is insane.

Originally posted by shaff:
i seriously want to cry
HAHAHAHAHA!!

Originally posted by Estuansis:
Yes but if the graphics warrant the hardware this is our new Crysis :P

I, for one, am a Battlefield freak so this is awesome for me. I probably won't run it maxed but I bet I can find a happy medium for now :P
Yeah, I know you're a hardcore Dragon Valley chinese sniper, Jeff, lol.
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3. February 2010 @ 16:15 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Let's not forget, the sort of frames cards are pushing in the BBC2 Beta are no worse than they are in Crysis, but most multiplayer FPS games require a higher frame rate to run smoothly than Crysis. The specs I've stated are for a minimum 60fps in the game, i.e. it running absolutely smoothly. In Crysis we can live with a lot lower than 60 in parts, sometimes as low as 28 without much incident, which is the tolerance that allows dual 5970s to pass the 30" Max detail settings, and that's without AA. The BBC2 benchmark is including AA.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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4. February 2010 @ 00:34 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
If I can find decently high settings that let me keep a minimum of 30 I'll be ecstatic. I prefer over 60 if possible but I can make exceptions for monsters like this :P

The graphics do look amazing by the way. I'm excited to see it up and running on my own rig.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. February 2010 @ 00:34

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4. February 2010 @ 13:00 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
At 4xAA, assuming 80% crossfire scaling (about standard) you should be able to pull off around 30-31fps minimum at 1920x1200. But ew, 30fps in a game like Battlefield?



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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6. February 2010 @ 14:55 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Anyone know a good low profile card, has to be nvidia (not fanboyism) due to a particular board(Chipset) not meshing well with ati. And above all, it has to have an HDMI output. How much am I looking at?

Sam, you know my dilemma. Rather than run a vga to Hdmi adapter, a card could be a better route. Especially since BD files, and discs will be played on this HTPC. Is there a sweet Nvidia Low profile card out there? Gotta run cool and quiet too. No gaming/light gaming.
Thanks in advance ;)

currently looking at these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Productcom...N82E16814143203

LOL! never mind the 9400. No hdmi...



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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. February 2010 @ 14:59

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6. February 2010 @ 14:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
there is a GTS 250 low profile, though will take 2 pcie slots.



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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6. February 2010 @ 15:05 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
This is essentially what I'm working with. Though the board is in an HTPC case now.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856167009



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6. February 2010 @ 15:14 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well this one is certainly cheap.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814125289
I wonder if it's a good idea though. The HTPC currently has its stock HEC Power supply. And we all know what kind of power GPU's demand LOL! From the reviews I've read about the HEC PSU, its not a question of if it will die, it's simply a question of when. The PSU is doomed. Sure wish Corsiar or another PSU manufacturer would make a respectable HTPC PSU.

I really should wait though, and see how the VGA to HDMI cable does. It might be within reason.



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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. February 2010 @ 15:15

harvrdguy
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6. February 2010 @ 20:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm kind of like Jeff - if I can get 30fps I'm halfway happy, lol.

Speaking of Estuansis, the Dragon Valley chinese sniper dude, I went back to a full day of BF2, to see what effect the 2 gigs of Ram would have on the several-second skipping I used to get (making flying the helicopter not practical, lol.)

NO MORE SKIPPING! I'm doing a lot of helicopter flying - not that good but you should have seen me a couple years ago, lol. I even tried a couple rounds on the jets, but I suck worse than a couple years ago - I'll have to get back to the rhythm of gentle left turn banking. I see these guys flying loops - there are some really good jet flyers out there (who dominate the game with massive bombing runs.)

MISSING TEXTURES, AND MISSING SERVERS ON BF2
But there were only two servers on my servers list - hey everybody - has the entire world installed the 1.5 2 gigabyte patch - which is maybe why there are no servers? I am downloading that patch right now, which provides new maps and also widescreen support, and fixes some connection problems - maybe like the one I was experiencing.

But I am missing textures on some maps - is that because at 2 gigs I still don't have enough memory (I have 512mb on the 3850 card) or is it because I was trying to run too high of a resolution at over 2400 x 1400 - something like that in 16:12 format. I decided to drop down to 1920x1200 and then I noticed no widescreen support, which is when I found out about the patch. At 1920x1200, that is much fewer pixels than I was trying to run, so I am hoping the missing texture issue will get itself solved.

COD4 TOO MANY SERVERS
Speaking of servers, I had never backed up my COD4 ranking folder (I just found out on google where it is) so because my hard drive was wiped out, I now have to build back up again from private - I was a 5 star general before like shaff!

As you see, I decided to started playing COD4 mp again, and the first weapon they give you is a 3-round-burst M16a4. Man, that is deadly! I remember two years ago hating that weapon, and being very surprised when on some YouTube videos it occasionally popped up as a favorite weapon on some lists.

But I'm giving it a fair run this time. The L4D2 SCAR rifle has given me a new appreciation for 3-round burst rifles.

Originally posted by Rich on Why I love SCAR - military hunting rifle too!:
SCAR is the most powerful automatic rifle in Left 4 Dead 2. My reasoning for that comes from that Urik tank-killing chart that Sam has seen around the net before, and which I posted a couple weeks ago. According to that, the SCAR is twice as powerful bullet for bullet as the M16, and about 20% more powerful than AK. At the same time, the burst mode reduces recoil, so it is MUCH MORE ACCURATE, crouching, or even full standing up, than either of the other two.

In terms of whether or not you should pick up a SCAR (and get used to its one-second longer reload time, and its tendency to burn through ammo unless you are careful and focus on head shots) consider this: If you grab a 360 round SCAR instead of an M16, your 360 rounds is worth 720 M16 rounds, and 420 AK rounds. So in a fully-loaded SCAR, you are getting way more deadly fire power than a fully-loaded M16, and even more than a 400 round fully-loaded AK. Top that off with a much more accurate weapon - especially as regards AK.

One last note - the 180 round military hunting rifle, with a 30-round clip, even beats the SCAR in terms of most fire-power in a fully-loaded rifle, as it is 220% more powerful than a SCAR - meaning equivalent to almost 400 rounds of a SCAR. From time to time I grab that one, and if the zombies are coming in a group, I know I am getting multiple kills per shot - the ability to thin out a horde is amazing. (My deep south friend Anubis swears that he killed 6 zombies coming single file with one sniper round head-shot - I don't see how he had time to count the zombie bodies before they disappeared - but at a minimum he says for sure multiple head shots with one round.)

Plus you definitely stun the witch with each head shot, so I guess you can just keep head-shotting her to death as she sits there. I haven't tried it, but on the original Left 4 Dead with only 15 round capacity, I killed her before she reached me with about 10-12 rounds.
The COD4 M16 doesn't repeat the bursts however, so you have to keep hitting the trigger, but if I can get used to it I think I will have a nice weapon for one of my weapon classes.

The main problem with it is the iron sights - terribly small and you can't see sh*t! One of the worst iron sights in the whole game! Until you are able to upgrade the weapon to a red dot sight, that makes it a bad weapon for hard core servers, which don't give you a cross-hairs.

So to make things simpler for myself, and allow me more easily to stay away from hard core servers until I am back up to general ranking, I just uninstalled the game (and did not remove the settings, so my new small increases in ranking from a couple days ago didn't disappear.) At the same time, I didn't install any patches.

That leaves me with 800 or so servers, instead of over 10,000 - much easier to refresh and not so many hard core servers in that bunch. I lose the beautiful new Creek map, which I liked a lot. (I also lose broadcast and chinatown, which are okay but nothing special in my opinion, and killzone which I can't remember but I have the feeling it's another terrible Shipment type of sheer pandemonium.) I am pretty happy with the original complement of 8 or 9 very nice maps (except for the abominable Shipment) that come with the unpatched version.

So a year from now I'll be a 5 star general again, haha. I know that when I finally get it, I'll be a P90 spraying mad man again - but I'm also going to see if I can truly take advantage this time of the M16 3-round burst rifle.

Rich
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6. February 2010 @ 20:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
hehe rich, upgrade to the 1.7 patch. PS you can use a patch to level up to 55.

PS hit me up on xfire when you play so ill play with you



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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6. February 2010 @ 21:14 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Question: Will EVGA GeForce 9800 gtx graphic card fit into an HP Pavillion M7590D CPU? Coz I'm planning to get it but at the same time, worried that it won't fit inside my CPU. Here's an inside look of my CPU:




As you can see, the inside of my CPU is pretty cramped. So guys, do you think that the EVGA GeForce 9800 gtx graphic card will fit?

Thanks in advance
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6. February 2010 @ 21:21 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
well take a tape measure and find out how many inches across would fit



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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6. February 2010 @ 22:20 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
That's exactly what I was thinking. However, I don't even know the exact width and length of EVGA GeForce 9800 gtx graphic card.

Can anyone please post the exact width and length measurements of EVGA GeForce 9800 gtx graphic card. I'll be a happy man if anyone can do so.
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6. February 2010 @ 22:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
well ideally you would want a GTS250 as its the same but uses much less power and its 9 inches.

what PSU do you have?





MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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6. February 2010 @ 23:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Currently my PSU (stock) is crap. It's only 300W Max. But since I am planning to upgrade my OS, I'm going to buy this

So yea, I'm not too worried about the power that the 98000 requires. And for additional info, I'm doing an upgrade coz I recently bought left 4 dead 2 and it lags all the time! It drives me nuts. And plus, it does not detect the proper shadow/colour patch of the game coz the buildings are too bright that it literally blinds me. So yea, that's a big issue for me and hence, my decision to upgrade. I just hope that it is compatible with my CPU.

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 6. February 2010 @ 23:14

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6. February 2010 @ 23:36 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
so tell me you will buy the PSU first? adn dont buy that one. buy a corsair :)

also the 9800GTX was replaced by the GTS250 (basically it got a rebrand, smaller card and lower power, moving from 2 x6pin PCIE cables to 1x6pin PCIE cable for power)



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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7. February 2010 @ 08:12 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well, I'm not exactly trying to create fan preference, but I don't remember hearing of compatibility issues with ATI cards and that chipset off hand. ATI's low-end HD cards tend to be better than nvidia's from what I can gather.
A card like an 8400GS uses very little power at all, but you know what low quality PSUs are like...
Schwaber: Looks pretty cramped in there, as said you will have to measure the space you have, and also as said, I would strongly recommend a GTS250 over the 9800. Apart from using less power, being more powerful, and probably costing the same or less, it's also much smaller, so will fit in the case a lot better. The 9800GTX was discontinued a while back, the GTS250 is its successor.
You will have to upgrade your PSU to run either card as well.
Also, the PSU you have chosen isn't very good. A 400W Corsair CX will be fine for your system, assuming you buy the GTS250. It is much better quality, and cheaper as well.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
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7. February 2010 @ 13:45 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
@Sammorris & Shaffaaf:I see. I really appreciate your input into this. Yea, I will follow your advice guys since this is my first time upgrading my system. I'm pretty noob when it comes to this.

So let me just get this straight. The only difference between the 9800gtx and the GTS250 is that the GTS250 uses less power? But everything, even the core clock is the same???

Question, are you guys using the same ones that you just recommended to me? And, what corsair PSU should I exactly get?

BTW, one more favour. Can you guys post the specs of GTS250? Thanks!

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. February 2010 @ 13:54

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7. February 2010 @ 14:49 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Ok, i've talked about this in the past, so here is the proof, that the MSI board does not like at least certain ati models. Due to that, I'm afraid to risk buying ANY ati card that will end up not working on this board, or at least cause bugs.
K9N6SGM-V





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Red_Maw
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7. February 2010 @ 14:52 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Schwaber,
Not sure which one your looking (1GB vs. 512GB) at but here's a bunch of different GTS250's (all pretty much the same) link and a details of a random one:



And I'm guessing Sam was referring to this psu: Corsair CMPSU-400CX


oman7,

Those are fairly old cards, and while I can't say you won't have problems with newer ones, that might be part of the reason they're not supported.


This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. February 2010 @ 14:57

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7. February 2010 @ 14:57 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
The board in question is as old as the cards it doesn't support...

At least i'm somewhat certain. LOL!



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