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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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7. February 2010 @ 15:16 |
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Well then I have no idea; I can think of a few things but I don't understand them well enough to talk about them lol.
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7. February 2010 @ 16:34 |
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I'm still confused about the PSU. The ones that you guys are referring to me is only 400W max (corsair). But the one that I want to buy is 700W max. Isn't it that the higher the Watts, the better? Or Am I just horribly mistaken? Plus, according to this the minimum PSU requirement for the GTS250 is 450W. Remember, I'm upgrading for a better gaming experience.
Here's more pics of my BIOS:
my motherboard
My PSU
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. February 2010 @ 16:57
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 11:51 |
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Schwaber: You should really try and ignore clock speeds as a method of gauging how powerful a graphics card is, it always leads to false assumptions.
People might be tempted to think that an old 2.8Ghz Celeron would be faster than a 2.66Ghz Core i7, but it sure as hell isn't. The same applies to graphics cards. The stock clock of the GTX280 is only 600mhz or so yet it demolishes the 9800GTX which runs at 675mhz.
All the GTS250 is, is a newer version of the 9800GTX. It doesn't just perform the same, it is the same card, just a newer version of it.
It's still quite poor value compared to its ATI Rival, the HD4850, but if you have to use an nvidia card, the GTS250 is a reasonable buy.
The Corsair 400W CX is ample.
Omega: Has it not occurred to you that the same chipset could very well cause bugs with nvidia cards too? There is nothing that sets the X1800XL apart from the X1800XT that could cause one to be problematic but not the other. As stated you are looking at all PCI Express version 1 cards there, I can only assume certain PCIE1 cards that use a lot of bandwidth can crash the chipset. nForce chipsets are after all very poor generally.
Given the age of the board itself, it wouldn't surprise me if every single current reasonably powerful card from the GTS250 and HD4830 upwards would cause the exact same issue. Personally, I wouldn't skew your choice of card on this at all. If you get strange problems with the graphics, buy a new motherboard. This is after all an nforce, so its days are numbered anyway.
Schwaber: More watts means the PC can run more stuff, if you have more stuff plugged in. It's rather like having a 20 amp fuse in your mains plug instead of a 13 amp fuse. If your PC only uses 2 amps, so what?
The main issue is that cheap PSUs lie about their wattage rating, since they are never tested at their full output (The cheapest brands will typically fail at 20-30% of their rated output) and when cheap PSUs fail, they go bang, and sometimes catch fire.
Proper PSUs have decent protections fitted so they aren't safety hazards, and are actually tested to run at their rated maximums.
Many people refuse to believe that cheap PSUs fail at such low ratings since they run PCs, but that leads me to my next point - power usage. PCs use substantially less power than people think.
In a normal PC, a GTS250 will run off a 200W PSU, let alone 450W. These ratings only exist due to the piles of crap PSUs that can't deliver what they say they can.
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 12:01 |
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sam the gts250 is around the same price as the 4850 adn the same performance.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
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8. February 2010 @ 12:04 |
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Last I looked, the 512MB GTS250 and HD4850 were relatively close with the 4850 slightly ahead, and in the US the GTS250 is 10% more expensive. Good by nvidia's standards, but still relatively mediocre value compared to the HD4850.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. February 2010 @ 12:04
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 13:08 |
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I'm a sheep. I listen to my manual. :p If it doesn't like ati, it won't get ati LOL! Joking. No, it hadn't occurred to me that nvidia could cause a similar problem. The way I saw it, was since it has an nvidia Chip, it won't mesh well with ati. It would be like intermixing car/truck parts. At least thats what I thought. That board is one of the smoothest boards I've ever used. Did you have a dead Nforce board then? I'm simply not interested in experimenting with ATI(ON the Nforce board), only to have to return the product. I'm probably being foolish. I think I'm being super cautious :p
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8. February 2010 @ 13:12 |
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"The way I saw it, was since it has an nvidia Chip, it won't mesh well with ati"
Tell that to my friends' PC that ran an nvidia chipset with an ATI card for 2 years without incident. Several other such systems existed, and still do today. nForce chipsets are much less reliable now than they were, but there aren't any additional problems I've heard of when using ATI cards, on any nforce chipset, other than of course not being able to use Crossfire.
nForce boards probably made up 10-20% of motherboard sales over the last couple of years and 50% of the RMAs. The nforce chipsets are all flawed by design and will eventually start falling apart, USB ports not working is usually how it starts, then PCI and PCI express glitches, disappearing network cards, broken sound and then finally, failed POSTs.
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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8. February 2010 @ 13:24 |
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I'm not an nvidia fanboy. And that is the theory to my madness LOL! I don't not believe you about the board failing. You have some strong numbers on your side. Good thing its simply an HTPC now. When it fails, I'll replace it with yet another simplistic board(and more reliable). Probably go for even smaller than µatx though. I'll give that more thought when the day comes.
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8. February 2010 @ 18:19 |
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sammorris: Got it. But I might go with the 550w corsair instead for the 400w.
BTW, is BFG a good brand for a psu?
Also, what is the difference between this video card over this??? Coz I'm a bit baffled on what to choose between the two coz pretty much they have the same specs. And I'm also not sure which brand is more trustworthy. What is your verdict?
EDIT: Here's the spec of my stock PSU I hope the chords of the corsair 550w is the same so that I won't be having trouble installing it.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. February 2010 @ 18:50
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 18:35 |
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The 400W is a little small for some systems. The 550 is a wise buy for future upgrades as it allows the use of powerful graphics cards (two PCIe connectors).
BFG isn't a great brand for PSUs, as they only rebrand other companies' units, and they're often not that great. Corsair don't exactly make their own either but they use their own unified design and guaranteed high quality OEMs so they're always reliable units.
I much prefer XFX to EVGA, and the XFX has a better cooler on it too, so I would recommend that card.
I'd still maintain you should buy this though:
http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102824
It's exactly the same performance, often slightly faster, and look at how much cheaper it is!
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8. February 2010 @ 19:03 |
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But how come the XFX is cheaper than EVGA? And why is it that that the XFX has 2 versions? What is the core edition? And why is it cheaper??? I really don't get it. But anyway, thanks for the input!
It's official. I'm going to buy the corsair 550w as my PSU and the XFX gts250. Any thoughts on that?
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 19:07 |
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As far as I'm aware the Core Edition label was just something to signify XFX's version of the product. Normally such a term would indicate higher clock speeds, but not so here.
Buy the GTS250 if you must, but I obviously have to remind you in each post you're paying $40 for an nvidia badge.
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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8. February 2010 @ 22:29 |
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8. February 2010 @ 22:37 |
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The Sapphires were the last batch in production though, so are much cheaper, and that's all the HD4850 really has on the GTS250. It's not a great deal faster. The HD4850 is now out of production hence the good value deals cropping up.
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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8. February 2010 @ 22:48 |
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All true; I just prefer the cooling and warranty on the XFX, which is still cheaper (by a little) then the GTS250.
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 22:49 |
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True, I own an almost identical card, and love it.
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Member
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8. February 2010 @ 23:01 |
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So I guess I'll just add the XFX core edition to my shopping cart since its cheaper than the normal XFX and is basically the same graphic card.
Out of curiosity, when was gts250 released?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. February 2010 @ 23:07
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 23:12 |
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March 2009 I think, quite a while ago.
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 23:14 |
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Out of curiosity, why are you ignoring our suggestion of using the HD4850 instead?
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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8. February 2010 @ 23:25 |
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You guys are all having some quite interesting discussions with Schwaber and Kevin about hardware.
I'll weigh in on hardware issues as soon as the money rolls in, in the meantime, I'm glad I spent that $30 to put the extra 1 gig of ram in my P4.
(Which is now at 4ghz courtesy of that other $70 I invested in the 670 cpu - which at one time retailed for $800, lol. For Schwaber - that old 4ghz netburst architecture I'm still on equates to one core of core 2 duo running at 2 ghz because of the increased throughput of core 2 duo versus old p4 netburst, not to mention that you get two of those cores with dual core, and four with quad core - so basically my p4, at about as fast as you can get a p4 to go, still sucks!)
LOL
But it has to last until my new rig - yeah I know Sam I've been saying that for a year now, haha.
But all I really want to say in this post, now, is that after two more days of BF2 - that game rocks! Thank you Jeff for talking about Dragon Valley!!
I added all the patches and dropped resolution to 1920x1200, and now I get all the textures, and about 40 fps, with 2xAA. There are some great maps I never saw before - like the boggy map with the Fish Market capture site, the map where the Chinese invade the northeast U.S., the map where they invade Alaska, and that rocking incredible multi-level map with the dam under construction!
Some of these players are REALLY GOOD! Until I start to fatigue after 10 hours straight I can sometimes keep up with some of them - but it amazes me to score two to one, kills versus deaths, and be the 20th or 21st player out of 21 on the chinese team. I am always glad just to have a one to one ratio, so two to one is GREAT for me, but for some of these guys, I just follow along with any of them, telling myself - "everybody on this team is better than I am so just follow any of them and learn!" Hahahahaha.
I am doing a lot of playing around with weapon classes. The engineer mode is interesting and enables you to jump out and fix the health of your vehicle, if you want to drive your tank around a lot (unless the air superiority of the enemy ensures that your driving experience will last all of about 40 seconds before the next deadly bomb run or helicopter TV-guided missile coming at you from that thing up in the sky about a quarter mile away - all of that quick death making you think you might be better off sticking with a fast-moving jeep.)
Fast-moving jeeps in fact is the strategy used by a bunch of flag-capturing guys on that fabulous chinese team I was talking about. They'd get three or four in the jeep - FLY to the next capture site - get it handled - then fly to the next one. It's all about holding more capture sites than they other team, so that was a winning strategy!
The engineer class does give you the option to mine your flag - sometimes that is helpful. In single-player, for example, I can almost guarantee a marine win on the map that the demo was based on - Gulf of Oman - by mining the road down to the little outpost next to the train - until you start consistently mining the road, the MEC always attack that first. Prior to choosing that strategy, MEC almost always won.
But I hated the engineer shotgun, always lying under the train with pistol trying to kill some MEC and take his automatic rifle.
On multiplayer, same thing - but a couple of times the shotgun worked out well. Once I spawned where a U.S. guy had just come into the building behind me getting ready to take the flag on that awesome dam construction map - he started firing first just as I got up and I didn't know what the hell was going on! I jumped and wheeled around and blasted his white suit with the shotgun - forgetting for a split second that it wasn't an auto shottie like left 4 dead - but then remembering in time to get off about 5 more blasts which ensured his untimely demise.
As I congratulated myself, I thought "well, shotgun is sure strong in close range."
Some other fun moments: I remember guys talking with disdain about noob tubes on COD4, I even saw some servers say "No noob toobs!" But the assault mode of BF2 gives you that grenade launcher. So, Man, I have to confess, for BF2 I often AM that noob tuber!
Shaff what do you think about that? We know you're a mad killer with high kill-to-death ratios on COD4 mp - I've seen some of your xfire stats - but do you like the noob tube, or are you one of the guys who looks down on the grenade launcher guys? LOL
Anyway, I am trying to get better at gauging distances with the BF2 grenade launcher sights - it's a quick one-shot kill if you can get the nade within five feet of the guy. I don't think anything feels better than suddenly spotting a guy about 80 feet away and launching one before he even can think about going prone - then seeing him fly through the air DEAD AS A DOORKNOB. Hahaha!
One time a dude, whom I had missed with two nades, was running around a building to get me while the stupid nade was reloading, and was virtually on top of me before I had a chance to think about switching to my rifle - so I blasted the nade at the ground about 6 feet in front of me.
I thought I'd be spawning in 15 seconds, but amazing - he was dead and I wasn't. LOL.
Other fun moments - spawning at a capture site with no vehicles, so I was out hoofing it to get to the action, when suddenly I saw a red-enemy jeep stop a ways in front of and below me on the left as I was running up a hill in the right fork of the road. I turned to look down and I saw the now-empty jeep below.
"Damn - he's out, and around here very close!"
All of a sudden the fool is RIGHT BEHIND ME rushing in with his knife! YIKES!!! I back pedaled and full-autoed on him just in time!
"Dead cocky sonovab*tch try to humiliate me, will you!"
I took his jeep! He don't need it - he's waiting for his spawn countdown. No more walking for me! Hahahahaha
Rich
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. February 2010 @ 23:28
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AfterDawn Addict
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8. February 2010 @ 23:32 |
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Quote:
that old 4ghz netburst architecture I'm still on equates to one core of core 2 duo running at 2 ghz because of the increased throughput of core 2 duo versus old p4 netburst, not to mention that you get two of those cores with dual core, and four with quad core - so basically my p4, at about as fast as you can get a p4 to go, still sucks!)
We did tell you so, several times over... :P
If everybody on the team has 2:1 or better KDR then that sounds like a rather one-sided game :P
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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9. February 2010 @ 02:21 |
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Aha glad to see you found the magic Rich. BF2 is one of my most played games of all time. I alternate between a designated transport chopper pilot for my clan(piloting with a Saitek X45 HOTAS) and special forces if we have too many open slots. Also spent quite a bit of time as a sniper. Best part is that the Ghillie suits really work too :P
The game really starts to make sense once you find a squad that communicates. Look for teamplay servers that require use of a mic. That way you can be sure to find a good squad. I've had the privilege to serve under some excellent squad leaders and even lead a few myself. The game transforms from an all-out war to an intense exercise in real-time tactics.
It gets really intense when you have a good chopper pilot(like myself) and a full size squad of friends who know eachother. We've all piled on and made a precision drop on their artillery site. The chopper lifts off to circle and cover the squad with the mini-guns. After the explosives are set I drop back in and pick up the whole squad. Then as we are leaving the special forces guys detonate the C4. It's especially satisfying when you get away with everyone alive and even have time to RTB and repair and heal before doing it all over again.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
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9. February 2010 @ 14:07 |
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ouch another over priced ATI card, this time the 5570 :(
not even $10 under the 4770. ouch, very ouch
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2010 @ 14:13 |
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The HD5570 retails for $83-$85 in the US, £72-£74 in the UK.
The HD4770 retails for $92 (MSI) or $115 (XFX) in the US, 1GB versions are rare and cost $140.
The HD4770 is still rare all round in the UK and when you can get one it costs £86-£89.
The HD5570 is therefore appreciably cheaper than the HD4770, easier to find, substantially more efficient (it uses less power than an HD4670), and can be crossfired easily.
However, its 3D performance is very weak, sitting between that of an HD4650 and HD4670. Given how efficient the HD4670 already is, the HD5570 seems a complete waste, and should really cost 60-65% of what it does.
The HD5450 makes reasonable sense, as it's nice and cheap and is twice as powerful as AMD's best IGP, and if you call 1280x800 low settings playing, it can play MW2 with a nice frame rate.
The HD5670 is not especially good value, but it's the most powerful graphics card you can buy with no PCIe connector on it, so is worth its price for that I suppose. The HD5570 is truly baffling though, as it has neither the benefit of good performance per watt, or a low price to make it worthwhile.
Edit: having looked at sites that seem to know how to test hardware a bit better than Hexus, the HD5570 doesn't seem to perform as badly as suggested before. I'll try and draw up some estimates.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. February 2010 @ 14:19
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AfterDawn Addict
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9. February 2010 @ 14:23 |
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for htpc is seems great, but yes it does need to cost alot less. even then the 9800GT costs $90 ish aswell for a BFG model.
need new competition, hurry up nvidia
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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