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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. May 2009 @ 02:00 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
I'm glad I jumped on my Phenom II 940. It's completely an AM2+ chip and doesn't support DDR3 AFAIK though I'm not sure. If the only thiing AM3 has going for it is DDR3, I'm not impressed. Higher latencies are poison to AMD chips.
Estuansis,
You are correct. Your Phenom II is DDR2 only. In spite of the latencies, DDR3 is still faster because of it's higher bandwidth!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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26. May 2009 @ 02:08 |
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I think the higher bandwidth will cancel out the latencies and you'll get something of nearly identical speed. Either way, for now at least, I'm still quite partial to my DDR2 :)
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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26. May 2009 @ 02:19 |
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The way I see it, the memory performance of DDR3 is the same as DDR2, but costs more for it. Where 800mhz would be CAS4 or CAS5, 1600mhz is typically CAS8 (mega expensive) or CAS9. The higher speeds will of course mean higher bandwidth, but more performance? Hmm...
Re:AM3/AM2+, I thought the 955 was AM2+, and that the 800 series was AM3... Confusing isn't it?
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26. May 2009 @ 02:20 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
I think the higher bandwidth will cancel out the latencies and you'll get something of nearly identical speed. Either way, for now at least, I'm still quite partial to my DDR2 :)
Soo...do you think that DDR3 is still TOO cutting edge. Too early to trust it I guess???
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26. May 2009 @ 02:23 |
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Not too cutting edge. It works great for i7. But I don't think it's the right technology to match up with AMD chips. They like lower latency while Intel chips like higher speed.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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26. May 2009 @ 02:24 |
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That was my understanding of AMDs as of the late original AM2 chips like the 5600+. Not sure how things have progressed in that regard, as until recently, AMDs haven't even been worth considering.
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26. May 2009 @ 02:29 |
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I think it's still the same way seeing as AMD chips still use an integrated memory controller.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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26. May 2009 @ 03:17 |
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see i dont have that feeling for my PCs, to me its a tool, that i can build and use.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|. |
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26. May 2009 @ 03:18 |
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Probably because you only keep them for six weeks before selling or breaking them...
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26. May 2009 @ 03:35 |
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Right. I've put a lot of time, effort, and money into building my PCs. They are meticulously maintained and assembled to a professional level of excellence. I take great care just routing my wires let alone picking which components to use just so my wire-management is decent :P If anyone broke any of my PCs I would cry :(
EDIT: Well, maybe not literally. But I would be very very upset :P
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. May 2009 @ 03:37
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. May 2009 @ 03:41 |
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my PCs have uber cable management, ask sam :D
i sell them because i have no need for them.
MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
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26. May 2009 @ 05:11 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
That was my understanding of AMDs as of the late original AM2 chips like the 5600+. Not sure how things have progressed in that regard, as until recently, AMDs haven't even been worth considering.
Sam,
The later 65nm chips perform better and have more memory bandwidth than the older 90nm chips had in socket AM2, in spite of having less L2 cache. As far as the "until recently" goes, when I bought the 4800+ for Oxi, it ran better than I expected it to. Eventually I will replace the AM2 motherboard with an AM2+ 780GX, and unleash about a 15-17% improvement in performance. Of course I have to rewire the front panel, but that's fairly easy to do.
As far as genuine affection for a computer goes, The time I've spent getting things straightened out so that mine runs the way it does now turned out to be a lesson in "what can go wrong" for me! Having multiple problems with different hardware turned out to be a challenge, but I hung in there and have been rewarded with a very nice machine, that I've developed a genuine affection for, for what it can do! The only thing I see that runs slower than my E6750 did is Win RAR, and that's really meaningless as once you start archiving something, you can go do something else. It's not like you have to sit there and wait for it to finish! LOL!! The only thing I don't understand is I can run it as high as 3.6GHz with no problem. Run Orthos, OCCT or Linpack continuously without failure for hours on end, even overnight, yet it will randomly reset itself for no apparent reason I can find. Sometimes it will go for a couple of days with no problem and then just suddenly reset itself. I'm completely baffled as to why. Voltages and Heat are non-issues! There's no readily apparent cause, and it doesn't have to be doing the same thing every time it happens. It seems to do the same thing whether it's running at 3.3GHz or 3.6GHz. It's rock solid at 3.2GHz, so that's where I'm gonna leave it. By letting the EPP control the memory, I get better timings at lower voltages. From what I can gather with the limited time I've spent fooling around with a Phenom II, on the same model motherboard, I should be looking forward to a machine that is incredibly smooth to use, only a lot faster than what I have now! I'm looking forward to it!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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26. May 2009 @ 07:49 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Probably because you only keep them for six weeks before selling or breaking them...
Hehe. I'm always very attached to my equipment, i use/treat PC's like i use my car, they stay with me until they go into the ground (literally). I've been the same since i first got into computers back in Victorian times. It's not just down to financial constraints, though that is the primary constraint. PC's to me aren't throwaway items, they're tools with which to get things done, and as long as they are still able to work, they keep being used. And my point is that i've just resurrected my trusty old Athlon 2800XP machine, last used in anger on the river. To get the most performance out of it i'm using Puppy Linux 4.2.1 on it, it's still noticably slower for surfing use than my 3 main machines ie the Q6600 (XP), E6400 (Windows 7 RC1) and netbook (XP though it's OS should be called torrent as that's all it ever does LOL) but there's still life in the old Athlon yet.
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. May 2009 @ 08:04
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26. May 2009 @ 10:42 |
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PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB |
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26. May 2009 @ 11:06 |
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the generation I'm referring to is the one between CPUs like the 4800+ and 5200+ and the Phenom IIs. i.e. the 6000+ and original Phenom generation. The original AM2 chips went up against E6 series CPUs, which was a semi-reasonable fight. The latter stuff had the 45nm Core 2s to live up to though, so was flattened. The Phenom II is the first new promising tech from AMD. I don't really consider CPUs like the X2 7750 and 7850 in this, they're worthy contenders because they're crazy cheap, but they have to be, they aren't worth much more.
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26. May 2009 @ 12:47 |
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As sad as it is to say you are right. The 7750BE is really just a way for AMD to dump loads of old Phenom chips for cheap. It does make it a great deal though and IMO it is competitive as an entry level product. However cheap they may be. They aren't near as fast as the original Core 2s even, but they do offer a reasonably fast and decent OCing dual core for those on a budget.
Interesting note. At 3.2GHz my 7750 BE has a SuperPi of 25 seconds while my 940 BE at stock gets 20 seconds. I thought it was multi-threaded...
The first Phenoms had OC powerhouses like the E6750 to deal with and they really weren't very good at all. Mediocre performance, buggy, and practically zero OC capability. The Phenom IIs are good because they offer usable performance for a reasonable price and can actually OC to a decent level of power. Unlike the Phenom I they are viable for higher-end machines and can actually push fast graphics cards effectively.
We all know AMDs are not up to snuff with Intels yet but they are quickly closing the gap. The Phenom II is a major leap forward for their technology and it's not long before we'll be seeing them on top again. They've been trading places for years remember :P
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. May 2009 @ 13:09
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. May 2009 @ 18:33 |
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Originally posted by Estuansis:
As sad as it is to say you are right. The 7750BE is really just a way for AMD to dump loads of old Phenom chips for cheap. It does make it a great deal though and IMO it is competitive as an entry level product. However cheap they may be. They aren't near as fast as the original Core 2s even, but they do offer a reasonably fast and decent OCing dual core for those on a budget.
Interesting note. At 3.2GHz my 7750 BE has a SuperPi of 25 seconds while my 940 BE at stock gets 20 seconds. I thought it was multi-threaded...
The first Phenoms had OC powerhouses like the E6750 to deal with and they really weren't very good at all. Mediocre performance, buggy, and practically zero OC capability. The Phenom IIs are good because they offer usable performance for a reasonable price and can actually OC to a decent level of power. Unlike the Phenom I they are viable for higher-end machines and can actually push fast graphics cards effectively.
We all know AMDs are not up to snuff with Intels yet but they are quickly closing the gap. The Phenom II is a major leap forward for their technology and it's not long before we'll be seeing them on top again. They've been trading places for years remember :P
Estuansis,
My 7750BE at 3.2GHz does SuperPi in 24.512 seconds, and I find it to be a very competent chip. About the only thing I do use that's slow is Win RAR, and I can do other things while it's zipping things up, so the problem becomes minimal! I rarely zip up anything real large to begin with! The E6750, even at a higher clock speed, can't match the 7750BE at encoding with DVDRB/CCE though. My personal standard, "Lost in Space" encodes an incredible 11 minutes faster with the 7750BE! I actually ran it twice because I touught I had made a mistake somewhere, or had accidentally turned 2 pass to one pass! LOL!! The 7750BE is also a Barcelona Core, not a Brisbane. Unlike the original Phenoms, there's no fix needed for the TLB thing, as the B3 stepping eliminates that without the speed penalty of the original "work around" AMD used, that severely limited the chips cache performance.
AMD is scheduled to bring out a bunch of new chips between now and the end of 09. I get the distinct feeling that all Future x2 AMDs will be Barcelona or Deneb cores, as the Brisbane on 65nm and the few remaining Windsor 90nm cores can't keep up with the 7750/7850 Barcelonas, in spite of their larger L2 cache.
So far the real sleeper of the Denebs is the Phenom II X3 720 2.8GHz chip. It's very quickly become AMD's best triple core by a wide margin. Hey if the price comes down a bit or I catch a sale, I may even buy one and sit back and wait for the AM2/AM3 Phenom IIs to come down in price, before I buy the Quad!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Red_Maw
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26. May 2009 @ 19:37 |
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When you talk about your superPi times how many digits are you calculating?
TIA
Red Maw
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26. May 2009 @ 20:06 |
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Originally posted by Red_Maw:
When you talk about your superPi times how many digits are you calculating?
TIA
Red Maw
LOL!!
I'm sorry. Oman7 and I have discussed this before so I didn't think of mentioning, it's for 1M. I know it sounds high compared to an Intel, but it caused quite a sensation on another Forum when I mentioned a Dual Core AMD that would do under 25 sec for 1M. I just wish that Xtremesystems would get off their dead asses and fix the validation so that it works, since they own SuperPi now! It hasn't worked for months! You enter the information, double and triple check it and it returns an Invalid Checksum every time! Sorry for the mental lapse on my part! LOL!!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Red_Maw
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26. May 2009 @ 22:02 |
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Thanks Russ. Should have guessed it was 1M since that seems to be the standard.
Know that I think about it though 25s is a lot more then I would have expected from a 3.2ghz dual core. I knew there was a gap between intel and AMD but never knew it was that large. Going to have to rethink the AMD build now lol.
Side note: right before posting vista decided to BSOD (again) and was very surprised to see FF saved my post. Also managed to finish superPi (1M) at 19.250s before it crashed :)
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26. May 2009 @ 22:50 |
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On the 'bad' PC in my room and wow, just thought i'd try it out for the hell of it to see how poor my E6600 (default 2.40GHz) was, but it managed 21 seconds for 1M... I feel sorry for AMD :(
PSP, all the way from 1.00 to 5.50 GEN D2 - DS Lite w/ M3DS Real (M3 Sakura v1.34)
PS3 3.01 - iPod Touch 2G 16GB Jailbroken - Xbox 360 60GB - PC, Q6600, 3GB DDR2, GTX260 (216) 896MB
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27. May 2009 @ 00:09 |
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Yeah but AMDs have always sucked at SuperPi. So 25 seconds is actually quite solid for a Phenom I Dual Core.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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27. May 2009 @ 00:35 |
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Estuansis: I wouldn't go as far as to say the 7750s aren't as fast as the original Core 2s, as they would beat everything up to the E6600, and the 7850 would probably beat the E6750 as well. There are loads of Wolfdale chips that would serve the 7750 and 7850, but there are also ots of considerably more expensive Wolfdale chips too. Stock for Stock, the bang for buck of the 7750 and 7850 is better than the E5200 and E5300. Of course, add overclocking to the equation and the AMDs get obliterated, even CPUs like the E2140 and E2160 flatten the AMDs, let alone Conroes or Wolfdales.
SuperPi is single threaded, which is why Phenoms score poorly at it, as AMDs were never very good at SuperPi, not that it really matters, SuperPi is about as synthetic as you get.
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27. May 2009 @ 00:46 |
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Originally posted by Shokz:
On the 'bad' PC in my room and wow, just thought i'd try it out for the hell of it to see how poor my E6600 (default 2.40GHz) was, but it managed 21 seconds for 1M... I feel sorry for AMD :(
Shokz,
Than hang onto your hat then, because my E6750 would get in the 13.80 second range at 3.55GHz. Before I switched to 1066 memory and tightened up the sub-timings, the best I could do was 14.236 or so! The 13's are right at E8400 country!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. May 2009 @ 01:18
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27. May 2009 @ 00:48 |
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Heh, I think my Q9550 managed about 11s at 3.9Ghz.
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