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The Official Graphics Card and PC gaming Thread
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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10. October 2011 @ 03:40 |
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Right now it would be a tie between Metro, Crysis 2 with the latest official add-ons, The Witcher 2, and various hardcore flight sims(DCS:A10C). I know there are a few more out there, but these are some significant ones. Supreme Commander Forged Alliance has also slowed to a crawl for me at times.
Metro's only saving grace is Crossfire scaling XD
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388 |
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AfterDawn Addict
7 product reviews
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10. October 2011 @ 04:06 |
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The witcher 2
Can I try the game before I buy it? Demo? I suppose I could go... another route. But...the other route could involve bugs. I'd really like to see the game as it's meant to run on my hardware. Apparently I meet the recommended requirements. The GTX 260 is the model they name for recommended(at least one site). But perhaps that isn't really good enough. I can respect that. That could only be good for lower resolutions like 1280 x 1024.
The trailer I watched on youtube really didn't sum it up for me. I'm nervous that it might be role playing, like final fantasy. I don't like games like that. Or at least I never have got into them. I really have to be in the right mood. Much like some movies ;)
I like action adventure games. Like Legend of zelda: the ocarina of time. I would not call that an RPG!
This would be a prime example of what I don't get into.
Action action, action. That's what I'm about.
Doom
Goldeneye
Duke nukem
wolfenstein
etc
etc
I really like Left 4 dead. 1 & 2. But I'm a solo kind of guy :p I'm not into the online play. At least not at present.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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10. October 2011 @ 06:03 |
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The Witcher 2 scores 90 on this performance index at 1920x1200 (The card is valued at 100, but 1920x1200 is 11% more pixels than 1080p), so to get a minimum of 60fps in a title with that setup, the game's minimum RPI needs to be 90 or less, or to get an average of 60fps, the average RPI needs to be 90 or less. As you see from the graph on the previous page, not too many of the games recently tested are as low as 90 on the graph, but there are a few there, you can get about as far as game 9 before the average RPI really jumps above 100 (assuming you don't use PhysX on Alice: Madness Returns) - at the opposite end of the scale though, things get drastic.
As it happens, Crysis 2, even in DX11 mode, isn't as demanding as the first game. I'm compiling a list of all the heavy hitters on that system soon.
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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10. October 2011 @ 08:16 |
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As it happens Omega, you can use an *ahem* borrowed version of Witcher 2 just fine.
There are two types of releases:
1) Custom Installer
Most "borrowed" game releases are simply an image of the full game, completely unaltered, unless the method of installation requires a custom installer. So unless you do the install incorrectly, it should still function and perform like the official release. The only obstacle to "customized" copies of games is finding working patches and DLCs which usually have to be released in a "custom" form by the same group who released the game. Even so, the only thing "customized" about these releases and their patches/DLCs, is the method by which content is installed. The actual in-game code should still be untouched.
2) Stock Image
Most games though can simply be installed from a stock image and then replace the exe to run without a disk(ie cracking). Any "uncustomized"-style game release will work fine with all official patches and content, and will also perform as they should. Though most games won't install patches if they detect an unoriginal exe, so you should patch to where you want it, then apply an exe matching your patch version.
Also, as it happens, the Witcher 2 is DRM free so you can install from any image, let it auto-update itself to the latest patch, and just play with zero DRM (and all the DLCs are free). The game simply "works" with no disk, no serial, no internet connection. I myself have purchased this game, so it was a pleasant surprise to find all of the corporate bindings completely dropped from such a fantastic game only a few weeks after release.
The main thing I have worried about with "borrowed" releases, is Crossfire working properly. All my fears were laid to rest a while ago though, as I have never had the issue. The games simply play as they were meant to be. So if you are worried about performance issues due to it not being an official disk copy of the game, that's not the part that matters. As long as the stock code underneath is untouched, it should run just as it was meant to.
I do not condone piracy nor have I told anyone how to do that here or referenced any sites that would have further info. I just wanted to say Omega, that if you felt like downloading the game through other means just to try it, you will be pleasantly surprised to find you have a full official copy of the game, and not a "pirated" release. This is the same for most games.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. October 2011 @ 08:30
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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10. October 2011 @ 10:14 |
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So, a bigger and more complete list:
Metric baseline: 100 with HD4870 (PR100) @ 1920x1080 (2.1Mp)
e.g. 180 with HD5870 (PR180) @ 1920x1080 (2.1Mp)
e.g. 207 with GTX580 (PR230) @ 1920x1200 (2.3Mp)
Target frame rate: 60fps
Average frame rate requirement shown first.
James Bond: Blood Stone: 60/65
Driver: San Francisco: 67A
Portal 2: 65/100
Dark Void: 65/100 (Physics isolated), 80/115 (PhysX low), 85/150 (PhysX High)
Prison Break: The Conspiracy: 70/95
W40K Space Marine: 75A
Race Driver: GRiD: 75/90
Dungeon Siege 3: 80/90
Dead Space 2: 80/95
Fallout New Vegas (8xAA): 80/100
Mass Effect 2: 85/105
Nail'd: 85/110
Call of Duty 4: 55/85 (NoAA), 80/120 (4xAA)
Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit: 95/105
The First Templar: 90/115
The Sims Medieval: 95/110
Magicka: 90/120
Call of Juarez 2 The Cartel: 95/115
Alpha Protocol: 90/130
HoMAM 6: 100A
Alice: Madness Returns: 100/115 (Normal), 375/510 (PhysX Med), 445/655 (PhysX High)
The Scourge Project: 95/130
Lara Croft and the Guardian of Light (8xAA): 105/120
Bioshock 2: 85/145
Transformers: War for Cybertron: 100/130 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 50/65)
Dead Island: 105/125
From Dust: 110/130
Rage (8xAA): 120/140
Superstars V8 Next Challenge: 120/140
Command & Conquer 4: Tiberian Twilight: 125/135 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 65/70)
Global Agenda (8xAA): 90/175
Assassins Creed Brotherhood (8xAA): 125/140
Darkspore: 125A
Sniper: Ghost Warrior: 120/160
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed 2: 125/160 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 65/80)
Kane & Lynch 2: Dog Days (8xAA): 100/190
Assassins Creed 2: 125/165
Darksiders: 130/170
Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands (8xAA): 125/185
Splinter Cell Conviction: 125/185
Two Worlds 2: 140/175
Starcraft 2 (8xAA): 135/185
Call of Duty: Black Ops: 150/170
Far Cry 2 (DX10.1): 110/145 (NoAA), 145/180 (4xAA)
Operation Flashpoint Red River: 150/225 (AMD 8xAA), 120/155 (nvidia 8xAA)
Duke Nukem Forever: 145/185
Need for Speed: World Online: 120/215
Spiderman: Shattered Dimensions: 145/195
World of Tanks (Beta): 145/200
F1 2010 (8xAA): 150/170 (DirectX9), 160/190 (DirectX11)
All Points Bulletin (Beta): 150/205
Front Mission Evolved (4xAA): 160/195
Blur (8xAA): 160/195
Homefront (4xAA): 150/210
Drakensang: The river of time: 155A
Medal of Honor 2010: 155/215
F1 2011: 155/195 (DX9), 180/215 (DX11)
Deus Ex Human Revolution: 180/200
WRC 2010 (4xAA): 165/220
Dead Rising 2: 165/230
Apache Air Assault: 175/220
Test Drive Unlimited 2: 160/185 (NoAA), 180/230 (8xAA)
Fallout 3: 95/235 (NoAA), 95/320 (8xAA)
Aliens vs. Predator: 145/280 (DX9), 130/265 (DX11)
DiRT 3 v1.1: 195/230
Battlefield 3 Alpha: 185/250
Full Test Drive 3: 175/270
Fable 3: 185/260
Bulletstorm: 100/145 (NoAA), 195/250 (8xAA)
Red Faction Armageddon: 170/205 (DX9), 205/250 (DX11)
Avatar: The Game (DX10 8xAA): 210/270
Mafia 2: 165/320 (PhysX off), 210/320 (PhysX Medium), 240/385 (PhysX High)
F3AR: 235/280
RUSE (Beta): 235/285
Need for Speed Shift 2: Unleashed: 185/245 (NoAA), 200/235 (AA nvidia), 290/370 (AA AMD)
Dawn of War 2: Chaos Rising: 165/385
Hydrophobia Prophecy (MLAA): 235/340
Battlefield Bad Company 2 : 95/210 (NoAA DX9), 225/490 (8xAA DX10), 240/515 (8xAA DX11)
Red Orchestra 2: 265/310
Split Second: Velocity: 260/330 (Engine capped at 30fps however, so 130/165)
The Settlers 7: Paths to a Kingdom: 85/90 (Low), 145/175 (Medium), 265/325 (VH)
Hard Reset: 100/120 (NoAA), 155/180 (MLAA), 255/340 (FS4)
Silent Hunter 5: Battle of the Atlantic: 285/360
Mortal Online (Beta): 285/360
Just Cause 2 (AMD): 115/130 (Low NoAA), 145/165 (Medium NoAA), 165/190 (VH NoAA), 245/300 (Low 8xAA), 275/340 (Medium 8xAA), 310/400 (VH 8xAA)
Just Cause 2 (nvidia): 115/130 (Low NoAA), 145/165 (Medium NoAA), 165/190 (VH NoAA), 185/210 (Low 8xAA), 215/250 (Medium 8xAA), 235/275 (VH 8xAA), 235/275 (VH NoAA PhysX), 255/335 (VH 8xAA PhysX)
Battlefield 3 Beta: 292/400
Arma 2: Operation Arrowhead (NoAA): 250/450
Arcania: Gothic 4: 150/185 (Low), 195/255 (Medium), 265/325 (High), 325/400 (Very High)
STALKER Call of Pripyat: 210/240 (DX10 NoAA), 290/370 (DX11 NoAA), 335/380 (DX10 4xAA), 365/450 (DX11 4xAA)
Crysis 2: 290/375 (DX9), 345/485 (DX11)
Shattered Horizon: 325/550
Rift: Planes of Telara: 375/500
GTA4 EFLC-TBOGT: 325/400 (Med-View60), 360/415 (VH-View20)
Napoleon Total War (2xAA): 340/600
Dragon Age 2 (AMD): 190/225 (Hi0A), 210/270 (Hi8A), 285/360 (VH0A), 350/400 (UQ0A), 360/450 (VH8A), 400/515 (UQ8A)
Dragon Age 2 (nvidia): 285/340 (Hi0A), 375/450 (Hi8A), 400/485 (VH0A), 485/580 (UQ0A), 685/750 (VH8A), 705/850 (UQ8A)
Crysis (Very High): 260/490 (NoAA), 280/540 (2xAA), 355/670 (4xAA)
Total War Shogun 2: 305/370 (DX10 MLAA), 440/575 (DX10.1 MS8), 485/650 (DX11 MS8)
Final Fantasy 14 (Beta)(8xAA): 195/245 (DoF off), 600/770 (Depth of Field on)
Lost Planet 2 (Bench): 155/350 (DX9 NoAA), 195/470 (DX9 8xAA), 325/600 (DX11 NoAA), 490/980 (DX11 8xAA)
Metro 2033: 145/165 (Low10 AAA), 160/170 (Medium10 AAA), 215/255 (High10 AAA), 310/570 (VH10 AAA), 470/830 (VH11 AAA)
The Witcher 2: 230/315 (High), 760/915 (Ultra), 780/980 (Max)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. October 2011 @ 10:15
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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10. October 2011 @ 10:25 |
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Will have to disagree with Crysis 2 unless my cards simply haven't been scaling in Crossfire since it was released. With Dx11 turned up and the high res texture pack I average 20-30FPS in a relatively calm scene. No AA. Given there have been newer drivers and more patches since then I may have to try again, but my entire impression of the game was it performs much worse than others have been saying. Fully legit purchased copy as well. So in my current experience, Crysis 2 is MUCH more demanding than Crysis 1 or Warhead.
Will have to do that today and post back telling if it's the same or not.
Also, by disabling one setting in The Witcher 2, ubersampling, the performance landscape changes drastically. What settings do your numbers represent for Witcher 2 and if with ubersampling on, can you put up some numbers with it off?
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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11. October 2011 @ 22:19 |
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Where did the last 3 weeks go? (Beats the heck out of me.)
What an interesting concept - performance metric!
Originally posted by sam post 7680:
Had a little play with a new performance metric.
Using previous established values with a default resolution of 1920x1080, a baseline which measures how fast everything performs, given a fixed screen resolution, can be calculated.
In other words, clearly two PCs with the same hardware but one running a larger monitor, the latter is going to effectively become 'a slower PC' if run with the same detail settings, but the higher resolution.
Using a metric that considers both the graphics hardware and the resolution, a single figure can be obtained for how demanding a game is, based on benchmark data. By considering the score for your system against the score from a game, you can more immediately identify how many detail setting adjustments (if any) will be needed to achieve your desired frame rate, rather than having to recalculate benchmarks based on cards you don't own, or resolutions you don't use :)
The benchmark as always, is going to be the Radeon HD4870, with a score of 100. So an HD4870, with a resolution of 1920x1080, gives a PC score of 100.
Thus, a Geforce GTX580 with a resolution of 1920x1080, gives a PC score of 230, and a Radeon HD6970 with a resolution of 2560x1600 gives a PC score of 106.
Here are some example systems based on my own, and various friends' PC systems:
8800GTX @ 2560x1600: 35
HD4870X2@ 2560x1600: 91
HD4870 @ 1680x1050: 118
HD6970 @ 2560x1440: 118
HD6850 @ 1920x1200: 126
HD5850 @ 1920x1200: 140
HD6870 @ 1600x1200: 173
2xHD6970 @ 2560x1600: 208
GTX580 @ 1920x1080: 230
2xHD6850 @ 1920x1200: 246
With that as a reference, here are the recently benchmarked titles at GameGPU.
The objective frame rate is 60. This means if you only desire 30fps, you can get away with a PC score exactly half that of the game's score, before needing to reduce detail.
Both average and minimum frame rates are considered here, so for an average frame rate of 60fps, read the first value. For a minimum frame rate of 60fps, read the second value.
If a single figure is noted with an A, only the average frame rate is available in the benchmark.
W40K Space Marine: 75A
Dungeon Siege 3: 80/90
Call of Juarez 2 The Cartel: 95/115
HoMAM 6: 100A
Alice: Madness Returns: 100/115 (Normal), 375/510 (PhysX Med), 445/655 (PhysX High)
Dead Island: 105/125
Hard Reset: 100/120 (NoAA), 155/180 (MLAA), 255/340 (FS4)
From Dust: 110/130
Duke Nukem Forever: 145/185
Red Faction Armageddon: 170/205 (DX9), 205/250 (DX11)
Deus Ex Human Revolution: 180/200
Battlefield 3 Alpha: 185/250
Fable 3: 185/260
DiRT 3 v1.1: 195/230
F3AR: 235/280
Crysis 2: 290/375 (DX9), 345/485 (DX11)
Total War Shogun 2: 305/370 (DX10 MLAA), 440/575 (DX10.1 MS8), 485/650 (DX11 MS8)
Rift: Planes of Telara: 375/500
The Witcher 2: 230/315 (High), 760/915 (Ultra), 780/980 (Max), 625/810 (High 3D), 2120/2520 (Max 3D(est.))
Some interesting things to note here:
1. Even at 1080p resolution, an old HD4870 can still run the first eight titles pretty close to 60fps.
2. Even with some concessions, Crysis 2, Shogun 2, Rift and The Witcher 2 all require a higher PC score than any of the example systems listed.
3. The penalty for PhysX, and for 3D Vision, is enormous. (Also note, Geforces are still required to use either of these technologies)
4. The Witcher 2 is ridiculous. A performance rating of 2520 for the maximum setting in 3D mode would require Two GTX570s in SLI just for 640x480!
Okay, I take note of the 8800GTX 2560x1600 at 35. Lots of room for graphics improvement for me.
If I understand the chart - I can cut the scores in half for the 30fps I can live with - so for Crysis 2 (dx9) I would need a 145/188 power system, and for BF3 I would need a 93/125 system. Going back up to the power of various systems, crossfire 6000 family would give me 200 or more, and therefore presumably a throttled-back 2-gpu 6990 would give me at least 200. Correct me if I have this all backward.
Quote:
It'd definitely be worth waiting for the HD7 series I think, while they won't offer astronomical increases in performance, they should make a much higher performance level available on reasonable TDPs. I anticipate seeing a very similar level of performance increase from last process change (i.e. 40% above the highest geforce, 50% above the highest radeon), probably looking at around PR310-315 for the HD7970 (remember HD5870 is PR180, HD6970 is PR210, GTX580 is PR230), but more than that, the HD7950 will probably perform around the PR280-290 area, so 25% or so faster than the GTX580, but within the same 6+6-pin 150W power envelope that the HD6870 does now.
Likewise, the HD7800 series should offer near-identical performance in every regard to the HD6950/6970, but in small single 6-pin cards.
I too think I am going to wait for the 7000 family since it seems like it is just around the corner. I read one article on the 7000 series which speculated that AMD could put a lot more shaders on the 7980, and provide performance equal to a 2-gpu 6990. We'd all love to see that! Again, from your chart, I would love to see a huge jump, with a one-card 2560x1600 performance close to 200. I do have the money in the bank - just waiting for the right card - and not especially motivated by any game which might change with BF3 (after beta) or another COD.
(BFBC2 plays great for me and seems very fluid - I don't think I have anything too dialed back, and I'm running full 2560x1600 - I am not too high up in the ranks, and so far my weapon of choice on the Russian maps is the F2000, and on the vietnam maps, the good old M16. I have tried to improve my aim with the grenade launcher, and I have had some success camping out, on top of an ammo pouch, firing grenade after grenade at enemy positions. I was shocked after a long time on the vietnam maps when I saw buildings collapse on the other maps, lol.)
God, Sam's Red Orchestra numbers show my quad core 9450 not up to snuff even oc'd to 3.4. Like Omega said, no matter how much of a jump, there's always one witcher out there to humble you.
Originally posted by sam BF3:
New A-tier cards (Minimum 60fps)
2560x1600: GTX580 Quad-SLI or HD6970 Quad-Crossfire
Quote:
Oh, did I mention? That's the easy map (Metro Rush) - enjoy Caspian Border being twice as demanding :P
@#^$%@ - sound of me being raped!!!!!!!!!
On the happy front, somebody just hands dual-core Griff an i920 DO stepping - that's the cooler-running easier to overclock stepping. And Kevin is ecstatic with his 35% better bluray quality - while shaff says "bah humbug - nobody can put a percentage on quality!" Hahaha.
Originally posted by sam:
The 28nm push won't change performance massively, maybe 50% gains tops, but performance per watt will improve dramatically. AMD's roadmap reportedly includes the HD7850 and HD7870, which will basically be carbon copies of the 6950 and 6970 but on 28nm, meaning they'll use 90W and 120W respectively, so they'll both be mid-sized single 6-pin cards like the HD5770/6850/GTS450 are now, but deliver HD6950/70 performance. That will be impressive. They will also draw little enough power to probably run with aftermarket heatsinks fanless. Imagine fanless crossfire, with the power of an HD6990.
I don't feel like I'm raped any more. (And with all the bugs in BF3 I won't be trying to play it for a year anyway.)
Originally posted by omega:
If I go 6970, I may have to look toward more side cooling. Or maybe water cooling. They apparently run pretty warm.
Kevin, why would you go 6970 when the 7000 version will run with a ton less power? So cool, Sam even speculated "fanless!!!!!!!!!!"
Originally posted by sam:
In other news - I made an RPI graph of recently released titles - threshold is 60fps.
Wow, another very cool Sam chart, this time a graph. A lot of games fit under 200, and since my eyes are not that sensitive re: 30 fps vs 60 fps, I could push it to 300-350 maybe.
And an even more complete chart yesterday. Some of those numbers seem surprisingly high because I have been playing several of those titles at full 2560x1600 - maybe I just don't notice the stalls on explosions. For example, BFBC2, no AA dx9, 95/210. I can cut the numbers in half for my acceptable 30, and get 47/105, but my 35 power gtx8800 seems to do fine - and I think I do have at least 2xAA. Another one, Black Ops, 150/170, cut in half, 75/85, my 35 power seems fluid I swear.
LOL
I guess I'm gonna look up Rage and see if I should start playing it. Also I noticed the Mafia 2 numbers - seems like I better see how to turn off physx - is it a game setting or something in an exe file or config file?
Rich
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12. October 2011 @ 01:06 |
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I probably will wait for the 7000 series. It sounds like the improvements are worth waiting for. Rarely find time to game anyway, and the games I do play, maintain a reasonable frame rate :p
To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question! |
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4 product reviews
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12. October 2011 @ 08:03 |
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For BF3 You're looking at the Alpha client Rich - that has quite minimal graphical content to the beta, which is more representative of the full game - check the newer chart - the performance requirement has gone up substantially!
PhysX in Mafia 2 is referred to as 'APEX'. Ensure it's disabled or your performance will drop off a cliff...
Hate to be the bearer of bad news, but the HD7 series is not 'just around the corner' - by the time you can actually buy the new HD7900s in real quantities, it'll probably be at least 6 months from now, possibly 7-8.
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AfterDawn Addict
15 product reviews
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12. October 2011 @ 08:41 |
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PhysX in Mafia II is bugged. Even with a proper dedicated video card it crawls. On the other hand, without PhysX, Mafia II look and runs beautiful. Great game, I had a lot of fun with it. 2011 has been a great year for PC gaming so far, ports or not. And it promises to be even better with some major heavy hitters just around the corner.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. October 2011 @ 08:56
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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13. October 2011 @ 21:25 |
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Thanks for the tip about Mafia, Sam and Jeff. I copied the post into paperport - the next time I try the game I'll look to turn off Apex.
Like Kevin, I'll wait for the 7000, even if it's 6-7 months out. I've waited this long.
On another note, I ehum - am "trying" the game Rage. Estuansis, you got me sucked into this one.
Interestingly enough, on my 8800GTX, It set me up at full 2560x1600, but low texture, and no AA. Still, the game looks good. I'm running in high 50 fps, and low 30 if I'm driving a vehicle. The game doesn't seem to suffer from no AA - I was going to turn that on not being used to high fps like that, but I don't notice much aliasing, unlike with Far Cry 2 which I have put on the shelf for now, which MUST have AA turned on or it looks "ass" like you British put it.
Rage is kind of interesting.
I like that you can change the difficulty at any time. Great idea! Dropping down the hill into the "arena" with the second big mutant with the whip-like thing who blows open the concrete wall, was like battling the giant mutant in Sin City Episodes - the game built on the Source engine. Speaking of Source engine, I have a fondness for John Carmack, since by licensing his Quake engine, Valve was able to create the original Half Life.
Regarding that whipping boy giant mutant - when I was able to kill him on normal, I switched to hard, beat it, then switched to nightmare, and beat it twice in a row. Most of the time I'm on nightmare to increase the challenge, until it gets super boring. Killing the green spitting mutant on nightmare was challenging. But then right after that when they threw three more of them at me when I opened the gate down the escalator, I said, out loud "For crying out loud, give me a break." I dropped difficulty down to hard, and tossed a lot of grenades behind me as I ran around the escalator shaft in giant circles.
Anyway, the key in killing the second big whipper mutant, was setting up the best four weapons on the Quick change key, which I finally learned how to do. And for settler pistol, I selected fat boy ammo - that was very important. I started with auto shotgun, killed the first 2 of the 4 random mutants who come at you in the beginning before big boy busts down the wall, I grabbed the shotgun shells on the bench across the way, then I kept moving to keep out of the way of that whip. I think he whipped me one time. Right away I hit quick change to bring out the settler pistol, as I say with the Fat boy rounds - I had 24 of them and 64 of regular rounds.
That reminded me of Sin, where I had the giant rounds in the main pistol and started with those to take the wind out of his sails. I tried to unload all of those fatboys on the big guy, although a couple went to stop the annoying mutants who kept spawning, but only one at a time after the first group. Then I shifted to m16, where I had about 231 armor-piercing rounds. I still had 80 rounds in the smg, that I didn't need to use, by the time he died. And I still had 100 rounds of M16 left.
What had helped me have all that ammo, was using fist on melee attack, during the battle with the first big mutant. To save ammo for the big guy, who stays back and waits for you to go after him, I killed all the first little guys by punching them. So I had my 4 quick-change weapons loaded out with fists being one of them. You go out in the middle and trigger the whole attack, then you get back behind the giant rock slab at the entrance. The little mutants come ambling ferociously along with their big clubs, but they are in single file, and you usually can kill each one as they come from behind the large slab with one punch of your steel-pronged fighting gloves. After a while it was like, "Okay you galloping idiots, come to momma!" Hahaha.
When the first group were dead, I hit the big guy with all my 24 sniper rounds, ducking back behind the slab when he cranked up his rocket launcher. I had bought the monoculars early in the game, so even the pistol in a sense is almost a sniper rifle, with that zoom, unless the horde is on you and you don't have time for zoom.
The main sniper rifle mostly did it - he needed just a few fat boy rounds after that. Then when he died, I ran across for the stairs, and I tried handling the 3 little mutants who come afterward, again without using ammo. (Actually I got killed trying that, I didn't close in quite well enough, but the auto defribulator revived me, and killed whoever was left, lol.) It's nice when you are walking along, and the game tells you that your auto defrib has charged back up.
Anyway, I now have the game jacked all the way down to Easy, and I still can't get past this one point. I see on the forums a few more got stuck where I am now. I still can't kill the gigantic boss mutant after several hours. (This guy is about 15 stories high - think King Kong.)
I now hate the game, lol. A walk-through said don't use the night vision auto - just manual aim the rockets at his exposed stomach, then when he starts feeling that and comes close, go for the brain. One guy said you go through 3 cycles like that. I have seen that happen, so I guess I did get close a couple times. Maybe I need to be rested up, make sure it's on Easy, and brace myself for 2 hours of bullsh*t. Goddamn you, John Carmack. Easy means fokin EASY, right? Let me spell it for you EAZEEEEEEEE! Die bit*h !!!
I might try it this afternoon. (Jeff it's all your fault. How did you kill the big fool?)
The game has some interesting things - the car racing is kind of cool - the little machine gun hover craft that flies with you if you select that weapon - very cool. The homing rockets - coolest of all. The minigun is not bad either (you have rockets, or minigun, but not both - but you can have several of the hovercrafts available in your inventory to use one at a time, at any time when one of them gets destroyed.) The game is beginning to feel like Mafia 2 with random assignments to make money.
I actually liked the bandit guys - they all sound Australian to me - "somebody get that wanker!" I like them better than my buddies, but that's not how the game works - (you can't join the bandits, lol.)
Anyway, if I don't kill that gigantric boss mutant thing on Easy, the next time I try it, that's it for me, no more Rage.
What are those new titles you are looking forward to, Jeff? Rage 2 ?
Rich
Edit: Oh my god, I actually killed the big bozo. It took about 10 minutes. Nothing like a good night's sleep and a forum walk-through. No night vision sight - straight regular cross hairs. You almost have to shoot as he is in the act of lifting up his arm to throw a chunk of rock at you, to catch the energy glowing thing (think Iron Man) in his stomach, before his body twists as he heaves the boulder. So I did this all the way on the left, and every time he throws, your character goes "ughhh!" because you don't have full cover, but until you start breathing fast, you aren't really taking damage. Just kind of watch it for a while and take a few shots, to get the timing. You get 4 rockets. It's best to make the magic stomach shot on the first or second of the 4, because then you can run up the stairs as he heads toward you and starts throwing punches in the area you are firing from. He comes in close and leans his gigantic head forward, and on top of this head is another of those iron man glowing things. When you shoot those, you are really hurting him. The forum had said 3 cycles of this would be needed. I picked up where I left off, and I think I had already tagged him in the 2 hours I was trying early around 7 this morning after an all-nighter. So I did the trick one time, then I hit the quick save, even though I was breathing fast meaning I was hurt. I ran to the other side and back, and noticed that my breathing slowed down. Good! Nothing like saving into near-death as I have done many times. So I guess that was two good hurt cycles. Then I practiced my timing, and I got the stomach punch on the first shot of maybe the 8th reload of 4 rockets. I busted up the stairs and now I got off 3 rounds to his head. And he collapsed and died! He's over there right now pasted all over the gaming 30" monitor, dead as a doorknob! I no longer hate John Carmack and Jeff, in that order!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. October 2011 @ 23:25
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13. October 2011 @ 23:15 |
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The big games coming out soon would be Battlefield 3 and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
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14. October 2011 @ 01:01 |
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for gaming, I would like to see if the CPU helps. Ie use 1920x1080, give us a 6970, then cf, then 6990, and with the nvidia side, 580, 580 sli, 590.
this way the gpu can be seen if its limiting or not, and with the more taxing systems if the CPU comes into play.
so, for example:
2500k vs fx8150
6970, 55fps vs 55fps
6970cf 100 fps vs 70
6990 90 fps vs 70 fps.
this would show real world gaming, and that if down the line you upgrade your gpu or add another if there is a bottle neck.
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14. October 2011 @ 08:40 |
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Quote:
I like that you can change the difficulty at any time. Great idea!
You could do this with the Half-Life games too. Couldn't you also do it with COD I think?
Shaff: You can kind of already do that by considering what games they're testing, their test setup and LOD.
The Metro 2033 test here uses three different resolutions to add graphics load
http://techreport.com/articles.x/21813/10
Interestingly, something about the FX series CPUs means they're really good at handling the frame rate drops in Metro. About the only thing I've seen in their favour so far.
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14. October 2011 @ 12:37 |
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Windows 8 may effect the CPU further. I will not judge the CPU so soon. I am disappointed, and 2600K is tempting, but I must wait. I have a feeling buying 2500/2600 would be a mistake. Something is about to happen. I can feel it in my bones LOL!
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14. October 2011 @ 23:08 |
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i'm just going to wait till the higher clocked AMD quads are out. only three things i can think of that an 8 core processor is any good for is a Server or a Security System or the typical E-peen Nerd that opens 30 different programs just because they can.
I want a processor that focuses on the task at hand, and to accomplish that task as fast as it can, adding more cores is not the answer to that solution. Now if they took the cores and paired them in 2's then end result could be impressive. like crossfire only with CPU cores.
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15. October 2011 @ 00:35 |
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I was under the impression, that GPU's do so well, because they have multiple(Hundreds) of stream processors/cores. There's nothing wrong with a consumer buying an octo-core cpu. It is however wrong, if said consumer does not have the software to utilize such technology. Unfortunately, there aren't enough programs that support 2 cores, let alone 4/6/8 cores :(
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15. October 2011 @ 06:18 |
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Originally posted by omegaman7:
Windows 8 may effect the CPU further. I will not judge the CPU so soon. I am disappointed, and 2600K is tempting, but I must wait. I have a feeling buying 2500/2600 would be a mistake. Something is about to happen. I can feel it in my bones LOL!
Something is indeed about to happen, the 2700K is coming out. 100mhz increase for the same price. Just Intel securing their territory after Bulldozer appeared.Originally posted by omegaman7:
I was under the impression, that GPU's do so well, because they have multiple(Hundreds) of stream processors/cores. There's nothing wrong with a consumer buying an octo-core cpu. It is however wrong, if said consumer does not have the software to utilize such technology. Unfortunately, there aren't enough programs that support 2 cores, let alone 4/6/8 cores :(
Exactly why we have separate graphics cards in the first place - CPUs need to carry out linear processing - B relies on the outcome of A. You can't use multiple cores in a lot of things because what one core does relies on what the other core is doing to finish first. Parallel processing is more suited to graphics, hence the graphics card.
As it happens DXR, cores paired in twos is exactly how Bulldozer is designed underneath - 4 modules with 2 cores each. Clearly it hasn't worked.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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16. October 2011 @ 03:28 |
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This discussion of multiple cpu cores is very interesting.
But nothing is as interesting right now as RAGE, which, at least for this week, I am totally addicted to, with two all-nighters. Thanks Jeff. (This was one of your best picks, like the OF titles.)
In all sincerity, the game is totally awesome, and even blows away Mafia 2 which is quite nice in its own right.
I have heard it said before that John Carmack is a genius - if there were any doubt, no longer. Keep in mind, this is the same Carmack of ID in Texas, who originated the fps genre, the same Carmack who created Quake, yes and the same John Carmack who licensed his Quake engine to the unknown Gabe Newell, who used it to power the revolutionary 1998 bombshell Half Life.
And in this game, I feel like Carmack is actually paying homage to Valve, in so many ways. I love the quick save F5 key, just like the Valve games. I love the instant change of difficulty setting, just like Valve games. I play at nightmare highest difficulty now - taking my time - not rushing through the experience.
(Yes Sam you're right - the CODs have the difficulty adjustment, but you have to leave your campaign, and come back into chapter mode at the beginning of the current chapter. I wish I had known that in Black Ops before I got sick and tired of the uncountable number of soldiers continuing to spawn in endless numbers, the COD way, coming toward me in the underground corridor next to the computer room. I restarted the entire game to drop down to Hard, lol.)
Carmack pays homage to Valve, by freely using all the brilliant things Valve has done - which they never could have done if they hadn't started the Valve magic with his engine.
Wait til you see how much the Authority barricades and giant city compound look like the combine city in Half Life 2. Wait til you experience the mutant rushes, and, Kevin, you tell me if there isn't a very familiar and terrifying zombie feel to it all. Wait til you guys go through some of the maps, and start telling yourself, isn't this Episode 2? Or isn't this the tunnel from Blood Harvest?
Don't get me wrong, there is so much originality in this game - everybody will learn something new from Carmack this time around.
One review said the closeup textures were drab. Apparently, in order to make such a visually stunning game run as well as it does on my 8800gtx - near 60 fps (30 in vehicles) - Carmack uses some kind of overall texture map. You guys, Sam, Jeff, Shaff, DXR, you'll know the details of how that works, I couldn't quite understand it.
But I don't care if the computer monitors of the decaying hospital are bland, I'm not looking at those monitors. I'm not looking at much of anything because the gigantic 12 story rotting mutant carcass splayed across the entire side opposite me of the strikingly huge, once-thriving hospital atrium holds me utterly spellbound, in rich chocolate shades of brown, his blood still oozing down the walls in the offices below. Add the full orchestral accompaniment of foreboding mood music pounding through my 5.1 surround sound Medusa headphones, and there is a lump in my throat as my eyes try to take in all the gory immensity of the shocking presentation. Nothing can prepare you - that is why we game.
(That incredible map comes right after you murder one of the still-very-much alive members of the King Kong mutant crew - that is, if you ever figure out the little trick after hours of pain blasting rounds at the boulder chucking monkey. But all the frustration was worth it.)
I should have taken some screen shots, but a small picture could never capture the impact of that horrific spectacle. I can only imagine the art work and the high level of excitement around the office as the concept emerged. I was there at Turtlerock, across the parking lot, with my limited non-artistic sight, not really understanding what Miles and Mike were up to, when Mike's counter-strike-derived little brainstorm, Terror, was coming together to become the masterpiece Left 4 Dead.
These artists are magicians. We put down our money, engage our electronics, and let slip away our safe reality in order to embrace the exquisite lunacy of their twisted vision. Play this game guys. Rage may cast its spell on you too, like it has done to me.
I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot more about this one.
Rich
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16. October 2011 @ 06:03 |
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It's interesting, and thanks for the review Rich - most of the reviews out there currently are marred by the technical issues the game experienced on most modern hardware, which are gradually being resolved.
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16. October 2011 @ 11:23 |
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Well the main issue with Rage is the auto-adjusting detail. To keep a solid framerate it adjusts the graphics according to the speed of your PC. Well unfortunately this means every time you dip even one FPS below 60, every texture in the game readjusts accordingly. This causes horrible texture pop-in sorta like Halo 2 on the old Xbox and Mass Effect on the 360 but way worse. Every single time you turn to face an object or person, it has to re-load the textures. Sadly, this texture adjustment causes FPS drops on its own, and the system bugs itself out. So say your system would be capable of playing maxed at the highest detail levels, one single hitch or FPS drop causes a chain reaction that causes the game to kill its own performance.
The fix so far for this has been to create a custom cfg file called rageconfig.cfg and use that to force the textures to stay at one level. This fixes the performance and the graphical issues all in one.
This is what my cfg file looks like:
These first five settings force the textures to max
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vt_pageimagesizeuniquediffuseonly2 8192
vt_pageimagesizeuniquediffuseonly 8192
vt_pageimagesizeunique 8192
vt_pageimagesizevmtr 8192
vt_restart
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These next two force the AF to stay at the same level
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vt_maxaniso 4
image_anisotropy 4
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These last four set the FOV to 90(base 80 plus whatever number you put) and they force the textures to preload and uncompress during level loads. It also disables mouse smoothing which is largely useless in games if you have a good mouse, and re-enables the player shadow, which is a bit buggy but mostly works.
---------------------------------------
g_fov 10
image_usecompression 0
g_showplayershadow 1
m_smooth 0
So the final cfg looks like this:
vt_pageimagesizeuniquediffuseonly2 8192
vt_pageimagesizeuniquediffuseonly 8192
vt_pageimagesizeunique 8192
vt_pageimagesizevmtr 8192
vt_restart
vt_maxaniso 4
image_anisotropy 4
g_fov 10
image_usecompression 0
g_showplayershadow 1
m_smooth 0
Just by adding this cfg to the game, both the performance and graphical issues were fixed instantly.
AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. October 2011 @ 11:23
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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16. October 2011 @ 17:53 |
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You're very welcome, Sam, on the Rage review. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
When the game runs smoothly, it has so much personality to appreciate, (unless you're a reviewer rushing through it to write your luke-warm writeup) that it often speaks to what we all love about gaming.
But frustration is sure a kill joy. Recall that you didn't get much of a review out of me when I was stuck on the boss mutant kill, logging an hour or so lobbing rockets at him with no apparent effect. My review at the time was,
Quote:
"I hate Carmack, I hate Jeff, I hate video games, and I might try one more time before I take a sledge hammer to my whole gaming rig."
LOL
Jeff, those config files are awesome. You are a genius for knowing how to fix a game!
I am going to copy that post of yours into my Rage PaperPort folder, for permanent future reference just in case I ever need them, for example with a later gpu upgrade.
But right now, the 8800GTX with whatever steam patches have been applied, seems problem-free. I did notice, when I had a weapon and had time to admire the scenery, that as I glanced around, the textures did seem to sharpen when I laid my eyes on them. And I did notice a little bit of aliasing. I said to myself "Sam would not like that!" Haha. I have rivatuner running, and my fps on foot is always high 50s, so I tried to add 2xAA but the game crashed. I opened it and AA was off. I tried again, it crashed again. But I'm pretty happy with the graphics, and the aliasing seems minimal, so I don't really care.
It has me on no AA, textures low, but full 2560x1600. Maybe I'll try the textures high and see if the game crashes again. But the textures are gorgeous. Wait til you get to crazy Jim's swamp, and see that beautiful pond, surrounded by stunning sandstone boulders. I went walking along in the water looking for the special curative plant I was to bring back - very easy on the eyes - among the best-looking graphics I have ever seen. I am continuing to use digital vibrance through riva, at the medium low setting. I know how to replicate that on ati cards, through saturation and color temp. To me the amped up colors just amps up my enjoyment of the eye candy.
I have not had a problem with a wholesale adjustment of textures causing an fps drop as you described, Jeff. Again, probably with steam patches. However, as I write this, I recall that Steam tells me I don't have the latest nvidia drivers.
(Now that I think about it, if I download those newer drivers, I better make sure I keep my old drivers and take note on which driver I have currently installed - it would be a terrible shame to add new drivers and kill the entire Rage experience.)
I have rivatuner running all the time in small white letters up in the upper right of the big 30, so occasionally I glance up to see my fps, gpu temp, and a couple of times cpu core activity and core temps. Also I can see what time it is in military 24 hour clock - some riva genius added that little plugin, lol. But I couldn't help myself and pulled two all-nighters anyway.
(By the way, I'm so glad you guys talked about the Saitek lighted keyboard - I think Shaff and Jeff both have that model according to my kb folder. Being able to actually see the numbers has helped me grab the right weapon, for example the rocket launcher on 8, which I did whenever the music changed with a lot of tuba and trombone added in, and I could tell that one of the Gearhead heavily armored gattling gun soldiers was coming. But I ran out of rockets by the time I was leaving the bank vault - I had two of the guys to contend with at one time in a room next to two small offices that I could run around in. I hit F5 to save and played that sequence about 5 times. The weapon of choice, other than rockets, seemed to be magnum (settler pistol with fat boy) and head shots - 6 well-aimed shots gradually strips away armor and blows his head off.)
Anyway, it's a shame that the hardware problems have been stopping more people from enjoying the game. I haven't even begun to talk about how interesting are all the various townspeople, including the many types of ladies spread around, from Loosey Hagar (lol) who introduces you to the boomerang head-slicer, to many more beguiling and seductive vamps. And the car racing - fun! And Mutant Bash TV. Oh my god, what a trip! Carmack must be dropping a lot of acid these days! lol
Rich
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16. October 2011 @ 18:01 |
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I had an eclipse II as well, for three years. They were OK, but a bit on the flimsy side, especially the newer ones. Currently enjoying my (also backlit) MS Sidewinder keyboard, which has been excellent so far, for the 18 months I've had it.
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harvrdguy
Senior Member
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17. October 2011 @ 18:48 |
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Well, the whole back-lighting idea is very helpful, I have to agree with that, Sam.
I found that I still have to tape the keyboard in place, even though it is substantially heavier than the one I had, and I also have to have the steel-series mouse pad taped in place. Especially for multiplayer, I can't have things start moving around on me. The other thing I am going to do, which worked well on the flimsy keyboard, is rough up the 4 key, with about 30 very small pieces of scotch tape, so I can get used to using it again. Roughing it up helps me find it and I like it for grenades, if middle mouse is tied up.
Oh - for crying out loud! MIDDLE MOUSE BUTTON! I just finished Rage and I could have used middle mouse for the special quick-use key - I completely forgot about that! On the games that let you use one key to throw a grenade, like COD, I always use middle mouse.
Like I say, I finished RAGE, but I have already restarted it, to the point of going to the Hagar family hangout. This time I'll take my time, even more than before, in regard to exploring, running all the advanced car races, etc. For example, I passed that guy "guarding" the sewers. I never went down there. This next time I will.
I talked before about Carmack paying homage to Valve - wait until you see the Enforcers. Mostly they say "Back off!" But one of them said to me "Pick up that can!"
Remember Half Life 2 in the train station? (.. when Miles' name rolls up on the credits, lol.) As you make your way out of the station, one of the Combine soldiers says "Throw that can away." If you don't he comes after you with his cattle prod.
So when the Enforcer in Rage said "Pick up that can" I looked down and saw a little glowing can. The game teaches you to scrounge everything you find, which you can sell for cash to buy ammo. So I picked it up. He said "Good boy."
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Bless your heart, John Carmack.
Comparisons to Half Life 2 abound, but you have to admit, in the final analysis, that Half Life 2 was absolutely brilliant and cutting edge. As much as I LOVE Rage, only Valve it seems, is capable of creating that supreme high level of finely crafted masterpiece.
I would include the two Left 4 Deads also as masterpieces of their genre. It is worth going though the Developer Mode on those games to get an understanding of the work and decision-making that is involved in putting a game together.
The sexy girls are sexier in Rage. Don't get me wrong - not every girl, by any means, is a vamp. I give Rage props for the varied character types - there must be at least 50 distinctive personalities. Some of the ladies are very handsome, strong-looking decisive types, and there is at least one grandmother in the game, smoking some kind of water pipe.
Shaff, is that your brand of hookah? LOL
The sexy girls aren't dressed as provocatively as the sidekick in Sin Episodes, a Source engine game of about 5 years ago, a remake of the popular 1998 Sin. Alyx was sexy, but her clothing was subdued, and she was more of a tom boy.
The first Rage sexy girl is Loosum Hagar, who teaches you how to throw those sticks. Then you meet the girl with the big green eyes outside the outfitter store in Wellspring. She's my favorite. Here's her picture from the E3 Eurogamer review.
Then a similar one appears in the Subway City, but with a partial gas mask - her name is Friday. The lip syncing is not as spot on as Half Life 2. But it is close enough.
By the way, here's a quote from the review:
Quote:
The idea was that once the dust had settled, people would emerge from their pods and set about rebuilding society. The reality is that people have emerged from their pods and set about smashing each other in the face.
Hahaha!
Kevin, you should play this game, since it will remind you of Left 4 Dead all over again, and it will remind you of all the car action in Grand Theft Auto. After Rage, then you should get Mafia 2.
I enjoyed this game so much, that as I entered some notes about it in a text file where I remind myself of keystrokes (like how to bring up the map in Far Cry 2) alphabetically Rage came just in front of Stalker. The only reason I have Stalker on my computer, is because Jeff liked it. Then I read my notes about going to PaperPort for the info on the mod that Jeff said fixes the entire game.
Jeff, it looks like you and I have similar tastes. Anything else I should know about applying the mod you found, before I give Stalker another look?
Rich
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17. October 2011 @ 18:53 |
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Rage? I do wanna give it a shot. Timing is bad right now. Lots of projects going on. Perhaps this coming weekend I'll find time though.
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