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Experiencing Difficulty Using DVD RB and CCE? If So, Then Ask Your Questions Here.
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 07:13 |
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Yes Brobear, I think everyone knows that. Is there a point?
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64026402
Senior Member
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20. March 2005 @ 08:23 |
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Just that CCEbasic/DVDrebuilder is a marketable usable program combination for anyone.
CCEsp/DVDrebuilder is not.
Anyone with the money and resources to have a legal CCEsp install already have the knowledge to use it with DVDrebuilder. Most questions and infomation regarding SP are best asked in a different place.
Donald
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 08:24
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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20. March 2005 @ 08:25 |
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Nolos
I don't think that AD has any plans for a DVDRB forum. If you're looking for more than what we're discussing here then you might want to check out Doom9.org, jdobbs moderates his own RB forum there.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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64026402
Senior Member
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20. March 2005 @ 08:27 |
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A question for Nolos.
Are you satified with the results of you DVDrebuilder attemps with CCE basic. Are there any problems?
Donald
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brobear
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20. March 2005 @ 08:38 |
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Nolos
Yes there is a point. It was pointed out to you, but I have one as well. Do your testing quickly, your trial will expire shortly.
BTW everyone. I did like BigO and checked Nolos past contributions. He has posted exclusively to this thread so far. We are blessed. Most of his posts are attacking yours truly. Guess I got to be the little lightning rod here. Gee, aren't I the lucky one.
The following is a little commentary on someone with an agenda; not to be helpful, but to try to prove something. It's a bit lengthy, but with the storage AD has, it's only like a grain of sand on the beach. So, don't worry about my taking up space.
___________________________________________
Funny, the first response to Nolos was a helpful post by Brobear.
Nolos
Newbie
28. February 2005 @ 17:05
Hi am backing up my copies of, Lord of the rings extended versions, I was wondering if anyone had done thiers, and if they had any advice.
I have already done the extras DVDs X 6 at 41% and it looks good. The movie disks x 6 range from 7.3 to 7.8gig. Any suggestions on tweeking for the best result would be appreciated.
Thank you
Nolos
brobear
AfterDawn Addict
28. February 2005 @ 22:12
Not a lot to tweaking RB/CCE unless you do some editing. Leaving out unwanted audio and subtitle tracks is always a good idea. Under mode you can use Steal Space From Extras for a decrease in compression of the main movie. The beauty or RB/CCE is that it works so well under compression that you don't have to delete the extras to get a good backup.
At 7.3 to 7.8GB, you shouldn't even have to use the Steal option.
-----------------------------------------------
An unsolicited response to jdobbs. First sign of Nolos perceived grievance.
Nolos
Newbie
1. March 2005 @ 17:54
Hmmm the list is growing.
Fullasoul, Ozzy, HKT3020, sox2k.
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Nolos tells Sophocles how he thinks the thread should be run.
Sophocles
AfterDawn Addict
1. March 2005 @ 19:32
Finally! someone saying something nice to someone else.
Can we all start off with a clean slate? Aren't we all here for the same purpose essential purpose?
Let's share our experiences and help each other to overcome obstacles.
CCE Basic is a really good encoder, and many of us have been fortunate enough to enjoy its attributes without incident.
Nolos
Newbie
1. March 2005 @ 20:38
Sophocles
I agree, I have been following the thread for some weeks since using CCE and DVD rebuild, and have overcome my own obstacles by reading those who have shared their experiences, and advice. As Im sure many others have too.
I think however the future of the thread is linked directly to new members of which four out of the last six have complained about a senior members responses.
---------------------------------------------------
Nolos asks for info that Brobear supplied in the first response to Nolos.
Nolos
Newbie
4. March 2005 @ 17:17
Im still doing Lord of the rings I, II, and III extended. As most would know there is no Extras on the movie disk,
The Menus are up to a gig in size, so I have used Nero recode to shrink them, and the credits on disk two of each volume is up to a gig also, but I have no way of decreasing its size.
Is there any function in DVDRebuild to steel space from say, the credits to decrease the size of the credits? other than removing them?
Nolos
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. March 2005 @ 17:19
rockas
Newbie
4. March 2005 @ 17:22
Have you tried RB-OPT?
Nolos
Newbie
4. March 2005 @ 17:50
hi rockas,
No I havnt because I dont know what it is.
What is it and whatt does it do.
rockas
Newbie
4. March 2005 @ 17:55 Report an offensive post
You can make the download from my site... here:
http://dvd-rb.dvd2go.org/modules.php?name=Downloads&d_op=viewdownload&cid=24
Just read the info and the TXT files on the zip file... it's not hard to use.
My installer includes it 'cause I know it is very usefull.
Nolos
Newbie
4. March 2005 @ 18:03 Report an offensive post
Thanks Rockas, that seems to be what I am looking for, Ill have a look at it tonight.
Tks
Nolos
-------------------------------------------------------
Nine days later Nolos gives jdobbs his findings. Contrary to most previous findings and stated data by jdobbs and the CCE manual. Overlooked questions and answers at the beginning of the thread
Nolos
Newbie
13. March 2005 @ 08:05 Report an offensive post
I tried Quality Prec for SP 2.70 at 24, and found a drop in quality, I tried it against quality prec 16 2 passes, 3 passes and 6 passes, and the notable difference was 6 passes were prec 24 was considerably lower quality. Anyone found better quality from changing to 24 prec?
Nolos
jdobbs
Member
13. March 2005 @ 08:47 Report an offensive post
The quality precedence setting decides priority among image areas which the encoder assigns to allocate the bit amount. In DVD-RB a value of 0 to 64 can be specified. It's important that you think about it on that scale, because different versions of CCE use different scales. DVD-RB will interpret the 0-64 value to the proper scale for the specific CCE version.
The initial value is 16. As the value becomes closer to 0, a higher bit amount is allocated to complicated images areas. As the value becomes closer to 64, a higher bit amount is allocated to flat image areas. When the value is close to 0, the mosquito noise at the edges (noise causing hazy part along the edges, looking like flying mosquitoes) is less outstanding, but the contouring noise (noise which looks like contour line patterns, which appear in flat and wide areas, such as a dark background) is more outstanding. The opposite occurs when the value is closer to 64.
I've found that the 16 setting is best for most encoding sessions.
(Some of this text is "borrowed" from the CCE manual)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. March 2005 @ 08:54
Nolos
Newbie
13. March 2005 @ 09:40 Report an offensive post
Hi jdobbs,
the mosquito noise at the edges is the effect I got, I tried it on one of the LOTR_SEE which are a full 8gig, the changes from one interview to another showed these mosquito noise. The 16 prec showed no such affect, and seemed to be of simular visual quality in all other areas, Well with my tv and pc setup in any case, which is what matters to me.
I also found that image quality was not noticable better with any extra passes from 3 to 6, 2 to 3 was beter and 3 to 6 passes better again but in between I could see no improvement. With the documentries I dont mind the Cincraft log so I have been doing 6 pass on them, with great results. Although the each disk was not totaly consistant in quality even though they are simular size.
It great testing but the time involved is extreem.
Nolos.
PS I think I just became your newest VIP member, thank you for your great programe, it will save many of my prized DVDs from distruction from the evil children. LOL
-----------------------------------------------------
Another unsolicited response by Nolos, this time on how Brobear should conduct himself.
Nolos
Newbie
18. March 2005 @ 20:25
Great Bro, another positive responce. Thankfully you are not the marketing manager for the product.
brobear
AfterDawn Addict
18. March 2005 @ 22:03
Nolos
Quote:
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Thankfully you are not the marketing manager for the product.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am not the marketing manager for the product, though I am a proponent of the RB app.
I merely pointed out there is no purchase of trialware in the case of the CCE SP trial. Also, one doesn't purchase the RB to use with it. Though jdobbs I am sure appreciates the donations to help keep the development going. I was also kind enough to point out that according to what was posted, the setup needed to be changed. All in all, an informative post. I don't believe one needs to act like another's mother to post on the forum.
Quote:
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Great Bro, another positive responce.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And another of your snide little remarks. If you have a problem with what I say, report it to a mod. Otherwise, we don't need your little remarks about what who says and when. Get a life.
When they make you a mod, then you can start trying to control the forums. We get back on track and someone like you jumps in and accomplishes what you're accusing me of.
---------------------------------------------------
Nolos starts his attack and the rest is history.
Nolos
Newbie
19. March 2005 @ 12:40
Quote Brobear:
I don't believe one needs to act like another's mother to post on the forum.
Great then dont speek to people like you are.
In this thread alone, as I have not read any others, I have seen at least five people make comment about the manner of your responces, I have seen only one of them continue to post. Dont you think you should take note of that?
Thats one quarter of new posters complained and left.
I dont have to be a mod to be concerned about that.[/d]
Nolos can say whatever he will. It is obvious he came on this forum with his own agenda. He has been of little help and has actually been rude at some point to almost everyone unlucky enough to come into his proximity. Sophocles, Doc, and Donald have all tried to deal with him with comradery with no thanks. Insincere acquiescence is a hollow gesture.
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 08:52 |
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Dam you got some spare time on your hands, lucky you have two!
Im also impressed you have the capability to post on two forums and two sites at the same time.
Do you realy want me to respont to that tripe?
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brobear
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20. March 2005 @ 09:07 |
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You should learn copy and paste. You're crazy if you think I'd waste much time with the likes of you. You flatter yourself. It was a comment, not something you need to reply to. I put it up as something of a time line to show how quickly you became a resident expert and to show the rude and abusive behavior you've exhibited while trying to say others are guilty of turning off members. If you weren't enjoying yourself, you'd have left by now. You have an audience and don't want to let it go. I may be brusque as pointed out by some of the members, but I help others in the process. Notice who the first person was to offer you help and without any abusive behavior? Then to see yourself on the thread, you ask about the same thing I informed you of. Talking about reading skills...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 09:12
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 09:37 |
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64026402
There are two subjects here, so Ill try to keep them seperate.
The first is my tests with muli-passes and Prec value changes.
Im happy with the Basic results, and have used it on 12 movies in my collection so far. I am however still interested in how good it can get, the very reason I came accross DVDRebuild and CCE in the first place.
And regardless of the negitive feedback I will continue to do so. I have requested an extention from CCE for the trial to test further on larger files.
As well as any information on changes to 2.70 engine.
I have continued to test while reading Brobears Novel. and have found when I encoded a dvd that gives me an average bitrate of 3 Mbit/s or above which is most of the time, at various numbers of passes, made no real difference from 1 to 6-pass VBR, both subjectively or objectively .However when again working on larger DVDs that give me an average bitrate of 2.0, 2.2 and 2.5 Mbit/s, it still improves with multiple passes. The smaller the average bitrate the more multiple passes improved the video.
In reference to Prec, a lower value (like 16) served my purpose and showed the same results I had before with noise/mosquito noise at 24 or oevr which was worse than the low blockiness I got at 16 at these low bitrates.
At higher average bit rates I saw no difference when changing the Prec to 24.
My knew tests are the same as my original post and
supports what I have said, A large DVD like the documentries of the LOTR extended
versions, the ones I tested on, showed an Overall bitrate between 2 mbit/s and 3 Mbit/s.
The very area were others have found the same improvment with more multipasses as I did.
I have also re read the 2.70 manual and it makes no such claim to the uslessnes of multi-passes.
The second is my appraoch to Brobears manner and word usage.
I was not going to continue with the subject but since Brobear has even gone so far as to even continue on another site and thread, were in his usual manner, he has questioed my honesty and motives, just as he has with many other honest people. The very same reason I have brought up the subject in the first place.
And you guys continue to support it.
I did not respond to him in that thread nor post a link in respect for those who invited me via PM there. Its a pitty he does not have the same respect for you all.
To Doc.
"Updated encoder engine to 2.70 rev.8"
is in reference to a bug fix only
The problem was DC coefficients' value going beyond MPEG2/Video
(ISO/IEC 13818-2) standard at some situation.
Such situation occurs when there is quite low distortion and
high in contrast of luminance or chrominance.
So my results have nothing to do with a knew engine.
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tijgert
Newbie
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20. March 2005 @ 09:51 |
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Interesting, I was almost convinced about the uselessness of too many multi-passes because "someone" claimed Cinemacraft said so... but I never checked to see if it's true.
I'm currently encoding Stargate DVD's and as you can imagine, with 3+ hours of video the bitrate goes down quite drastically and proper distribution of the available bits is VERY important.
I used to be a 9 pass fan because it didn't hurt, now I'm thinking I was right too.
Can you confirm that on DVD's THAT large 9 passes really do make a difference over say... 6 or 7?
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 09:53 |
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Bro
No you didnt answer the question, If you felt neglected im sorry but as I pointed out there were no extras or anything to remove on the extended LOTR dvds that you suggested to improve my backup. I didnt expect you to know that but if you read the following post correctly you would have realised you did not answer the queastion.
rockas gave me an option that solved some of my problems to which I was greatfull.
A comment? Then you comments even extend to other sites and threads.
Ohh please, Bro, how old are you?
You would like me to cut and past?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 10:12
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 10:08 |
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tijgert
I have not had any intention to go beyond 6 passes, as the time is excessive. I dont have the time to test at this level.
I do however intend to do 2 passes on dvds I can decrease enough to get over the 3 Mbit/s average bit rate. A this is the limit of my software. As long as I have approval to use 2.70 I do intend to do more passes up to six as the bit rate lowers.
Ive done the whole LOTR extended versions 1 2 and 3 twelve disks. The movies showed no improvement at more than 3 passes. and even two passes was hard to find a difference from 3. I was able to decrease there size to between 5.5gig and 6.2 gig with recode and Rocas' program. The recoded menues showed little diff to the original and freed up a lot of space for the main movie.
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 10:25 |
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Brobear Quote: "I may be brusque as pointed out by some of the members, but I help others in the process".
Yes you do, and that is something I have not achnoleged on purpose. I have been wrongly or rightly been trying to show you that you are brusque and that has resulted in the lose of memebers and contributors. If you recognise this then you will become a greater contiributor than you already are.
I can also understand the frustration of dealing with people who use cracked software, but branding or suggesting that eveyone who tries the trials has an alternative agenda, and questionaing their honesty is bordering on slander. And your recent post about me on the other forum is a prime example and duplicate of many previouse posts. Dont make me cut and past that!
just think about it.
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brobear
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20. March 2005 @ 10:38 |
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Nolos,
Interesting. You can quote specs from the manual. The manual also says you can set the passes to 99. Go ahead and try it.
When Cinema Craft starts giving out the exemptions for using the SP trial indefinitely, let the rest of us know who to contact. Doc had the history on the SP. I posted earlier that the 2.7 engine has only gone through a revision, that that there appears to be no major changes. Thanks for confirming it.
tijgert
In about 20 days Nolos has become a self taught expert knowing more than the author of Rebuilder and the authors of CCE SP. Take his advice and play with the trial if you will. You'll end up wasting more time than it's worth and then it expires. Fun if you like to play with the toys, but no practical use. Watermarks. The 2 pass $58 Basic is the product that makes the usable backups unless you like the big blue logo of CCE. 16 passes or 20 or 24 makes little difference on the Quality Prec when using RB, so says the author of the app and he should know.
Basic CCE, 2 passes, 16 quality prec is the only way to go for anyone other than the rich.
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 10:58 |
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dont remember quoting anything from the manual. as usual you have no idea what you are talking about.
I also told you I have THE BIG BLUE LOGO on my backups of the documentry, and am happy with that.
Ohh and now you agree that Quality prec 16 is the best. Although 24 makes no difference at all.
LOL
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 11:55
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jdobbs
Senior Member
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20. March 2005 @ 11:01 |
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@tijgert
Quote:
Interesting, I was almost convinced about the uselessness of too many multi-passes because "someone" claimed Cinemacraft said so... but I never checked to see if it's true.
I'm currently encoding Stargate DVD's and as you can imagine, with 3+ hours of video the bitrate goes down quite drastically and proper distribution of the available bits is VERY important.
I used to be a 9 pass fan because it didn't hurt, now I'm thinking I was right too.
Can you confirm that on DVD's THAT large 9 passes really do make a difference over say... 6 or 7?
That was probably me who said it. Here is a quote from the CCE SP Manual:
"Image quality slightly improves each time encoding is repeated, but quality improvement reaches its limit at 3 ~ 4 times of encoding."
But -- there definitely isn't any harm in doing more passes.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 11:02
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 11:05 |
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Hi jdobbs
And could you confirm which manual you quoted from.
And will understand if you choose not to respond and get involved, (Although you have been quoted and used as a proof of the conta argument), but you have had contradictory tests in regards to what I have experienced in my tests.
Thank you
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 11:12
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jdobbs
Senior Member
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20. March 2005 @ 11:08 |
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Page 25 of the CCE SP v2.50 manual.
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 11:15 |
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Ok thank you Jdobbs, I dont think I need to go further with that.
Regards
Nolos
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jdobbs
Senior Member
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20. March 2005 @ 12:11 |
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Cool.
Like I said -- there is no harm, and what is important isn't what CCE says or I say or anyone else says... it's what your own eyes tell you.
I'm not much into dictating how someone should do things... the reason I left so many things open and easy to change in DVD-RB was so people could tailor it to fit their own experiences.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 12:12
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 12:27 |
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Dont think I need to add to that either.
Thanks for you imput Jdobbs. Even if it was not as involves as I had hoped.
Regards
Nolos
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 13:02 |
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Further responces from CCE
They have been very helpfull and quick in their correspondance to me.
CCE RESPONCE QUOTE
"I do not think 3 Mbps is enough for blockbuster DVD titles usually.
For example, Under 3 Mbps might be bonus material quality. Compressionists in Hollywood industry typically encode main feature over 4 Mbps and many passes on CCE. Even if I cannot realize any differences, they have good chops. ;-)
Anyway, you are right. Generally speaking, multi-pass has a bigger effect on lower average bitrate".
Thank you CCE,
I have further communication with CCE, but I think this should suffice for the moment.
But as jdobbs said trust your own eyes, test and see for yourselves.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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20. March 2005 @ 13:34 |
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Nolos
I realize that you've set your own standards for doing backups and you are now trying to defend them, but do you read what you've written before you post? I find your use of language offensive largely because your only goal seems to be that of proving everyone else wrong. Your CCE email post didn?t provide us with any information that we hadn?t already given you, if you?d have read it right, but you seem bent on pissing off as many people as possible rather than being a genuine contributor.
We?re all students and teachers here and the goal is to share ideas. Many of us spent the entire 2004 summer testing every transcoder and encoder available. I personally backed up LORIII using CCE more than 7 months ago and I carefully sifted through the movie looking for flaws and variations in how the bit rate was distributed. No matter how you look at it, a movie of that size leaves very little room for bit rate distribution. If the bit rates too high in too many moderate to fast scenes then the resulting backup will not fit onto a single type 5 DVD-+R so in order for this to happen something has to give up space.
I?m telling you right now that you are going to stop this nitpicking and the flaming of members. And then you?re going to realize that this thread was not started to feed your ego needs, and then hopefully you?re going to get along with everyone or go your own way.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 14:13
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64026402
Senior Member
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20. March 2005 @ 14:16 |
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Nolos
Since you are satisfied with your purchase of CCE basic and are not in the market for the 2000 dollar SP version and you have no difficulties with DVDrebuilder then your need for help is completed.
If you still wish to post about extra passes and tweaking quality out of an extended trial CCEsp version then feel free to start a thread about such.
If you wish to blow off steam at Brobear then choose a different area of the forum.
Donald
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 14:18
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Nolos
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20. March 2005 @ 14:20 |
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Sophocles,
No I have not set my standards at all, Im open to any imput. And Im not just trying to deffend my standards,
I am presenting evidance to support my findings, this is signifacantly different. Next week I may find somthing different, as may someone else, and anyone that actualy makes an effort to test the products will be welcome to present it to me.
Brobear is correct, I have been involved in CCE and DVDRebuild for a matter of weeks. and dont pretent to be an expert on them, but although I will take advise I will not accept that all that needs to be dscovered has been discovered.
The world is not flat!
thts a rather 18th century emperialistic perception.
The three main arguments against my test results were
1. So called quotes from Jdobbs
2. CCE manual
3. CCE thenselves.
All these have been shown to be wrong.
If you see providing evidance to the contry of detractors as egotism, then any debate or discussions would be futile.
If you already knew what CCE has to say RE:, Generally speaking, multi-pass has a bigger effect on lower average bitrate, as I had discovered, then why denie or argue it? or was your reference to somthing else from CCE.
And no I am not hell bent on pissing of an many people as I can as you well know from my PM MESSAGES.
I have contributed a test which has been vigerously disputed by most seniour memebers and then proven correct by the very sources quoted as evidance against.
There is no ego involved on my part
But considering you all spent your summer testing then there is nothing more to discover. you speek of EGO?
PS Please read. I said as many as three times before the 6 pass backup at low bit rates lower than 3 Mbit/s were the documentry disks (Much larger that the movies themselves) not the movies of LOTR, which can with the help of Nero recode, dvdRemake (Which I Own! as well) or Rockas software, be resized to as low as 5.4gig, and a 2 or 3 pass is sufficiant.
Your not reading my posts. Or not willing to explore an alternative point of view.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 20. March 2005 @ 14:32
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64026402
Senior Member
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20. March 2005 @ 14:33 |
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tijgert,
Unlike Nolos you actually had a problem to solve.
The disc you had a problem with, did you try with your CCE basic to see if it would complete the process.
I have found that using the same drive for the source and destination folder can help substantially.
Defraging the hard drive is also a very good idea. I have periodically had problems when the drive got fragmented.
I was also concerned about the unusual error message you reported. Was this word for word or an approximation so we would get an idea of the problem.
The possibility of a virus comes to mind. A scan never hurts.
I recommend 2 pass encoding until we can figure the problem out so not as much time is lost on unsuccessful attempts.
As you can, information about your machine and OS, and setup would be usefull to us.
Donald
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