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IMPORTANT NOTICE - BAD MEDIA - UK
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Flash-
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11. June 2004 @ 14:43 |
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You were not a customer.
Were not, Am not, & never likely to be a customer
For once you are correct I have to agree with you on this one
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Moderator
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12. June 2004 @ 19:04 |
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Such a coincidental resemblance to a certain thread over at dvdrbase.
I believe the concensus of the other thread was that AN32 media, no matter who made it, was junk.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 |
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SCS+
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14. June 2004 @ 00:49 |
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Homer
Look what you have started!!! LOL!!! Quite amusing and quite interesting to read!!!
PIODATA 8X RITEK DISCS ARE THE BEST!!!
WWW.PIODATA.COM (BRAND NAME OF PIONEER)
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jase
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11. July 2004 @ 12:11 |
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All the companies I know that buy their stock from him, hate doing business with him, they do so only because he pretty much controls the market.
I have to say that this is totally true. I know a local dealer who absolutely cannot stand the company. And when I had a word with the head of a certain large reseller, he was diplomatic about it but said pretty much the same thing, but there isn't much can be done about it really.
I for one avoid e-net products like the plague these days.
As for AN32, I was under the impression that this isn't a dye type. AN3* are supposedly test MIDs used, mostly without licence, by a number of HK/China based companies, Infosmart being one of the largest. I have to say that the AN32 "Naked Geek" media I sampled (NOT bought direct from the company, at least not by me) looked cosmetically identical to any other Infosmart(/AN3*/MEDIAID001 etc) media I've used. That said, the PI/PO error rates were low, much lower than typical results for Datawrite Red AN31 for example, and the discs did work OK in all systems I tried (albeit rather noisily, the discs I had were poorly balanced). Tests done with an A05, A07 and 2500A.
Personally I found them OK, but with Medea International branding Daxon-manufactured Sony-MID DVD-Rs for 20p a piece in bulk, I wouldn't buy anything else currently. But that's just my humble opinion, so please don't flame me for that :)
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. July 2004 @ 12:20
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NakedGeek
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11. July 2004 @ 13:37 |
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Thanks Jase,
I don't know who you are, but thanks for an honest post. My honest advice to people about ritekk disks is very simple, if they are branded as A Grade and they are cheaper than Arita, the chances are they simply are not what they say they are. Arita is Ritek's -Official- B Grade media, so why on earth would they be selling A Grade media cheaper than B Grade media? The only ritek I trust in the UK at the moment is Traxdata, and if you look at Traxdata you can see the huge price difference between Genuine A Grade Riteks and the crap that is being rebranded.
As for my AN32 disks, I decided on the AN32 because I didn't want to be in the ritek market at the time due to the massive problems, -and- my an32 were out performing the riteks in the UK. All my customers are very happy with them and I continue to get disks made at the same factory despite now branching out to other manufacturers.
I recently launched a Premium Grade disk which is being made by Taiyo Yuden and a week later I get an email from the same supplier in Taiwan that is shipping the C and D grade riteks into the UK. The email was a new price list and they had Taiyo Yuden on there for $0.44 each. Since I have been in contact with Taiyo Yuden on a weekly basis lately I knew they had to be fakes, so I contacted Taiyo Yuden last week about them and they are indeed fakes. So I recontacted the supplier in Taiwan and ask for more details they claimed they were B Grade Taiyo Yuden, yet Taiyo Yuden categorically deny it. I know who I believe.
Alexander Hanff
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jase
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11. July 2004 @ 16:29 |
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There are many Taiwanese and HK manufacturers producing 8x media currently with the TYG02 MID code, Optodisc, Princo and Infosmart being three. It is difficult to tell where these are coming from without physically inspecting them and having an eye for which factory produces what.
Of those, Optodisc media is pretty good -- comparable to Ritek/Prodisc. Infosmart not bad and Princo complete shyte. But with the 8x media firmware support coming slowly from several drive manufacturers, companies are turning to "faking" MID details in the same way as TDK/Maxell fakes for the 2x media. It's not the companies themselves as such faking the codes (they clearly sell them correctly described to distros in 9 out of 10 occasions) but what happens when they're listed on websites or labels in fairs is between the reseller and his conscience unfortunately.
To clarify, Japanese manufacturers like TY, Maxell and Mitsubishi *do not* officially sell B-grade and below media to distributors -- they have tighter QC, stamping equipment is not generally allowed to become overaged and any substandard product is destroyed -- at least it is supposed to be. Hence any "B-grade" TY media should be either fake, or stolen in some way. Of course in practice some does leak out, but in 9 out of 10 cases the media is not what the shady dealer says. In cases like Sony, Fuji and Ricoh however media does get sold under different brands as these are subcontracted in the first place, to Daxon/KDG, Prodisc and Ritek respectively, who will sell any B-grade material on (which is generally of a more than acceptable quality for the end-user).
There have been well-documented cases of HK producers "acquiring" Maxell equipment and producing low-grade media at low cost. Who knows how much of this sort of crap ends up imported into Western markets.
I do definitely agree about any Ritek media that is sold significantly below the price of Arita but claimed to be A-grade. Clearly there is something amiss, and certainly e-net were selling the "Tango" overprints as A-grade when they were overprinting the "landscape" discs, which are certainly not A-grade!!!
Having said that, Ritek is generally so compatible (note that is not necessarily the same thing as high quality) that it has to get pretty bad before the performance deficit becomes noticable -- so dealers can justify the "A-Grade" status by saying that 95% of the discs will be OK, and most end-users will be happy enough. Even so, smaller manufacturers like Postech, Prodisc and so on can produce their A-grade sometimes as cheap as these possible rejects, so may well be a better option. Unlike most people, I have no loyalty to any manufacturer; if Princo were to start making the best discs on the market, I'd buy Princo.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 11. July 2004 @ 16:47
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MrYang
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12. July 2004 @ 00:52 |
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The Ritek "Water and Mountain" disc which you say is used by E-Net to produce their Tango disc is always Ritek D grade or worse. Arita complete overprint is an A grade disc which has been miss-printed for another brand (Say Ricoh or Trax) then overprinted as Arita. Arita single prints are C grade media straight off the Ritek production run but sub standard but tend to be A grade up to about 4Gb... The offical Ritek A grades are Traxdata, Ridata, Piodata(Pioneer), CloneDisc, Ricoh etc which are always 100% grade A and now their prices are much lower the crap thats being sold by some people is really getting left alone by most serious users... loads of my customers who have bought from E-net have found that the films or data they have recorded on their sub standard media have become unreadable after a few months!! Which is really helpful!
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NakedGeek
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12. July 2004 @ 01:29 |
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Mr Yang,
Just a couple of things to point out from your post. Firstly Ricoh and Piodata are not Ritek brands, Ricoh have their own MID and PioData use several different factories for their production.
Secondly, as regards Ridata in the UK at the moment, they are starting to get bad, I have noticed a lot more people questioning Ridata and not just in the UK. There have been rumours over the last month or so about RMA Ridatas being repackaged and reshipped and certainly the quality of these disks is highly questionable.
Other so called Ritek "A Grade" that users should now be wary of are Ridisc, which are again beginning to have a lot of problems and I suspect they are being brought in by E-Net although I cannot confirm that.
The disparity is obvious when you look at Genuine A Grade Ritek (again I use Traxdata as an example because I believe they are the only A Grade Riteks in the UK at the moment) prices. Traxdata are averaging around £0.60 per disk which is almost twice as expensive as these other so called A Grade disks, there is no way that Traxdata disks would not have been adjusted to compete with these other "A Grade" media if they were genuine A Grade, since they would be priced out of the market if they did not (which I am sure you can see would be a bad business decision). So far I have not heard any rumours or reports about bad traxdata, but I have heard an atonal symphony of complaints about every other ritek disk currently on the market. And just be frank about E-Net, even their G05 8x disks are absolute tosh producing PO averages on general that fall within the C Grade category at the very best.
It is good to see this thread get back on track, thanks for the posts guys.
Alexander Hanff
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Client
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12. July 2004 @ 02:17 |
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Lost a little track on some of this thread - but i 'was' a customer of Naked Geek media and had problems with them - everytime i made my issuses know alex came back with some reason as to why the media was giving me problems/coasters inthe end i got fed-up with asking reasons why that all the trouble it was taking to ay hey i got some faulty media can they be replaced was too much so i gave up. I've never bought anymore and probaly wont as the guarantee seems more hassle. I'm not a geek media person or have all the knowledge lots of peeps have on media but i do know when i get better results from a bulkpaq disc regarless of its position in the market then with a so called best meadia/ and hard work customer service - i wont go back. I also noticed that all the rave was on own media and now they are moving to a 'branded' sitiation and will be just the same as anyone else in the eyes of the Client. no i'm not going to say who i am and prove i'm a customer as there is no need. in the end i had to convice a friend to change his player as i could play some of the media on mine but not his - knowing that i was having a hard time with the media from Naked Geek Net.
Bad speeling - nm :)
The Client
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2004 @ 02:19
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NakedGeek
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12. July 2004 @ 02:34 |
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And here they come again. Client I have no idea who you are, but I know you are not telling the truth as I have never had a customer services issue that has not been resolved to the full satisfaction of the customer. If I had received a complaint from you I would have recognised it based on the language issues you appear to be having and I have certainly never had a customer who has come back time and time again to be given excuses. I would have simply refunded said user once it became apparant that there was a compatability problem.
Now for the comments on my "own" media as opposed to "branded" as you say. All the media I sell is "my own media" I have media OEM'd the same as 90% of the brands out there (including verbatim, sony, memorex and just about every other big name brand you can think of). I have not switched to "branded" disks as you so put it, I have extended my range of disks to include other manufacturers to give the customers more choice.
There is no hassle with my guarantee whatsoever and yet again a supposed customer comes on here slating my product and refuses to identify themselves to check their validity. If you are a real customer (which I know not to be true as I would have been the one giving you lots of excuses as you say) then give me your details, tell me what the problem is (or even just point to an email you sent me with a date so I can check the archives) and it will be sorted out.
Now can we get back on thread please?
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funbobby
Newbie
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12. July 2004 @ 03:16 |
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AN32 Discs Sux The Big One!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. March 2005 @ 11:28
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MrYang
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12. July 2004 @ 03:28 |
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Can we please not have an arguement as to who is and isnt a customer of who's!! This thread isn't about that.
Geek... I dont know your company, but you obviously have issues about E-Net and certain brands, this forum isnt here to advertise your brands or company please stay on the topic of the thread, your right about the Ridata but its only because once a new succesful disc comes out someone goes and buys graded stock and prints a load up that look the same but are fakes!
My trade business is a direct competitor of E-nets and we have built our reputation on never selling any crap to anyone, just grade A all the way, you need to be careful what you say about certain brands like Ricoh... perhaps you should give them a call and see where their media is made (I am their offical UK distributor) Yes there is fake Piodata in the UK too now because someone copied it again! What a surprise!
Traxdata prices are now far lower than the prices you quoted (in the 30 - 40p mark currently) and this is the price range people should expect to be paying for an A grade Ritek product now.
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NakedGeek
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12. July 2004 @ 03:46 |
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Firstly, the prices I got for traxdata were just last week from browsing various online shops in the UK and they averaged around 60p a disk, if they are cheaper so be it, but I have not seen any traxdata on sale at 30-40p a disk I must not have visited those websites.
As regards the rest of what you said, I agree 100% this thread is not about my disks it is about the unethical practises of e-net, which is what I posted about.
As for Ricoh, here are some of their MIDs:
RICOHJPNR00
RICOHJPNR01
RICOHJPNW01
You will note there is not a Ritek MID there, also you will note the JPN which stands for Japan. Ritek do not manufacture -any- disks in Japan, their factories are in Taiwan. If you are their official UK distributor fair enough, maybe they should make their MID more sensible so people actually know what they are getting. Many people who buy Ricoh buy it specifically because they believe it to be made in Japan which has a reputation of manufacturing very high quality media (TY, MCC for example). But you are saying these are actually made in Taiwan by Ritek? If this is the case, the public are again being misled, maybe you could suggest to them that they should make their MIDs more illustrative than they currently are.
Alexander Hanff
[EDIT] Based on your price for traxdata, I just checked e-nets official wholesale pricelist for traxdata and even if you buy an entire pallet of them they are 0.49 each, here it is straight from their Excel File:
TRAXDATA DVD-R 4X Traxdata Branded in 25 Cakebox 0.588 0.551 0.514 0.49
TRAXDATA DVD-R 4X Traxdata Branded in 10 Cakebox 0.636 0.596 0.557 0.53
The prices at categorised as <£500.00, <£1000.00, <£2000.00 and Pallet. I also presume those prices are excluding VAT since they are the trade prices. So where can the consumer buy traxdata for 30-40p I am curious since the majority of shops buy from e-net and their prices are in the region I suggested.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 12. July 2004 @ 03:58
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MrYang
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12. July 2004 @ 03:54 |
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Fair enough Alex,
The Ricoh codes are misleading somewhat but I will tell you this, the reason people buy the Ricoh disc is that it never goes wrong and they never get any hassle!! Its a brilliant disc and is produced by Ritek with Ricoh staff in their factories... Ricoh is a Japanese company and they are renouned for the quality - the DVD+R patent is theirs... the Ricoh discs are coming down in price all the time and can be bought at around 50p now ... once they get to the 30p mark I expect a great deal of people to shift from buying fake crap offered by our mutual friend!
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NakedGeek
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12. July 2004 @ 04:05 |
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Thanks for the reply. I certainly don't have any gripes with Ricoh media, I have never heard of any problems with it and they are fairly priced for a genuine A Grade media, but glad you cleared up the MID confusion. I had read on another forum in a memorex thread that Ricoh get their media produced in Taiwan but since the thread was based around CMC I had assumed it was CMC they were referring to (this was an email from someone in memorex regarding their recent cmc issues).
I say this time and time again though mate, I have no issues with Ritek, I have issues with low grade riteks being rebranded and sold as A Grade stock, it is dishonest. I am fully aware that ritek are not the ones doing this, they are just selling their products and I know they sell them at the correct grades, they simply get reprinted. I am even looking at some riteks at the moment along with prodisc, but I intend to (like you) only have genuine A Grade ritek's OEMd to our brand.
The problem is, like you say, a lot of fakes are in the UK and it makes it very difficult for companies who genuinly hold the interests of the consumers to heart, to conduct honest business, when fake media is being sold at ridiculously low prices. I am sure you will agree, that in most other industries this type of behaviour would be illegal and jumped on from a great height, yet the media industry seems to just bypass all that. It truly is very frustrating.
Alexander Hanff
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Client
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12. July 2004 @ 04:13 |
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As expected ...
branded is having ur brand id on another product thats not yours orginally. it's not about u having or not having other ppls media its the way u carry on.
and yes ur answer is all that was expected and no i'm not lieing.
Howver what ever i say as wehn i did before when i had problems there will always be an 'excuse'
I shall not take this any further.. thanks for your commecnts again - (but i guess u will)
remember in sales
A satisdfied customers tells less than 5 other potential cusomers - a dis-satified customers tells over 10 others...
You dont need to know who i am but i had the first batch of media before u got the tub packaging.. now how would i know that without having bought some.
Client
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jase
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12. July 2004 @ 07:35 |
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Just to note that the Ricoh MID is no longer a guarantee of Japanese-level quality. Low-grade Ritek-produced Ricoh media is being sold at cut rates -- in fact the "Water and Mountain" or "landscape" pink Ritek DVD+R media often bears a Ricoh MID.
Ritek have gone to lengths to stop shysters branding sub-standard Ritek discs as A-Grade but unfortunately the conmen are sneaky.
At the end of the day though there is such a lot of *real* garbage about (fake Maxell/Pioneer, Yi-Jhan, Longten, VDS******, unknown so-called "Azo" media etc etc) that whether Ritek is Grade-A or not is a triviality by comparison.
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MrYang
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13. July 2004 @ 00:23 |
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Perhaps people will learn eventually to go and check the manufacturers website and see who the authorised distis are then buy through them or call them and ask for a stockist in their area - then they can be sure they are getting the genuine product!
I havent seen any "fake" Ricoh dvd around ... yes some of the watermountain and Arita will have the Ricoh MID because it was destined to be a Ricoh disc but didnt come up to quality so it was downgraded and overprinted in the Ritek factory.
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Dave22
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13. July 2004 @ 01:41 |
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YOU KNOW WHAT KILL'S ME ABOUT THIS FORUM. YOU MR YANG YOU QUITE OPENLY ADMIT TO BEING A RIVAL IN THE DISK SELLING ARENA. BUT YOU ALWAYS CLAIM THAT THE DISK'S THAT DATA++FE BUY AND SELL ARE ALL B GRADE AND BELOW. WELL IF THIS IS THE CASE YOU TELL ME WHY YOU ARE ONLY A TENTH OF THERE SIZE AS FAR AS DISTRIBUTION GOES. ALSO I AM KNOW FAN OF ANY ONE BUT I DO BUY FROM THEM AND 2 OTHER DISTRIBUTORS IN THE UK AND I HAVE BEEN THERE WHEN THE CEO OF RITEK HAS BEEN HAVING A MEETING WITH S*AF IN SCOTLAND, SO IF THE MAIN MAN HAS FLOWN ALL THE WAY FROM ASIA TO SEE THEM I AM SURE THEY ARE DOING SOMETHING RIGHT DONT YOU.
I THINK IT IS TIME YOU GOT A LIFE.
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Flash-
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13. July 2004 @ 02:13 |
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All this thread is about dealers pushing their own media, and in doing so try and discredit all the competition in any way possible. I use and test all brands of media and find good and bad from most of my sources.
I do not try and push any particular brand or attempt to discredit any competitors. I have none I do not market media I am an end user and would like to see posts by end users not distributors or retailers who are obviously bias towards their own stocked brands and will try in any way possible to discredit the opposition.
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NakedGeek
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13. July 2004 @ 06:33 |
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Dave22,
You are speaking utter rubbish. Ritek have no idea who e-net are (I have spoken to them personally) so there is no way you were there during a meeting between shaf and riteks CEO. Secondly e-net do not buy from Ritek, they buy from a bulk wholesaler in Taiwan and that bulk wholesaler has -CONFIRMED- that he is only buying c and d grade media.
The problem dave, is people like you actually need to start LISTENING to people who actually do know what they are talking about. We are in the industry, not just some consumer with an axe to grind. We visit the factories and test their products and discuss dvds all day long with the people that make the damn things. Shaf are huge simply because they sell cheap shit rebranded as A Grade.
If a customer goes into a shop and see a ritek A Grade disk for 40p and another Ritek A Grade disk for 23p he is going to buy the 23p ritek, simply because that is the way people think, they want a bargain and assume cos it is G04 it must be a great disk, without any though as to WHY there is such a difference in price.
It is elementary economics at the end of the day. Then once they have bought and failed to burn the cheap shite, they then go to forums and complain about it. But once the sale is made e-net is laughing.
You all do nothing but complain about crap media but refuse to listen to the industry (whether you like it or not Mr Yang and I -ARE- part of the industry), you just want your cake and eat it.
As for you flash, you have zero credibility as far as I am concerned you are not worth the air you breath. Interesting how dvd-recordable change their admin contacts recently to some asian people. Last I checked the whois database it linked directly back to e-net/datasafe and suddenly it no longer does. Yet more underhand tactics to hide the truth about dvd-recordable from the public.
Paladine
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funbobby
Newbie
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13. July 2004 @ 06:42 |
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AN32 Discs Sux The Big One!!!!
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. March 2005 @ 11:28
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NakedGeek
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13. July 2004 @ 06:47 |
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Flash,
If all we are doing is trying to jump on the competition, why are Mr Yang and I on good terms and saying pretty much the same thing? We are directly in competition with each other, yet we get along fine and have not tried to discredit each other. So model simply doesn't fit.
What we -are- trying to do is make an honest living in a market that is as corrupt as it gets. People like you in so called positions of respect and responsibility do not help the industry at all by posting fake test results and reviews always in favour of e-net's products. Whether we like it or not, people listen to you and they get disappointed because they buy the shit you recommend. You in some respects are as guilty as e-net, if you are not part of the solution you are part of the problem, and you certainly are -not- part of the solution.
Go back to dvd-recordable where your sheep can listen to your BS.
Alexander Hanff
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NakedGeek
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13. July 2004 @ 06:49 |
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Funnobby,
Obviously you have no idea what you are talking about either, nearly buried? I think not, I just expanded the business over the last month to a new office with nice shiney new pc's and nice shiney new quality control testing towers and nice shiney new staff. If my disks were as bad as you say, I would be broke, not expanding. Why don't you get back into the bed with flash and go back to sleep like a good boy.
Alexander Hanff
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 13. July 2004 @ 06:50
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Dave22
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13. July 2004 @ 10:17 |
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Hello Naked Geek.
I would like to know where you get your information from. I have seen there operation and for yourself to claim they sell S*it. As I have said to you before you really need to calm down cause if it was me I would sue the A*s of ya you blatantly make claim's that you can not back up except with the comments "so I was told, I have heard, A customer of there's did not like them", which customer, who and who told you go name drop lets see how connected you really are.
You are very upset and P*ssed with the whole situation, but you should tread very carefully as you could find your self in a court very soon. And I dont think you have the financial backing to do that as you have mentioned on many occasions.
So grow up and get on with it get a good disk and market properly it rather than using AN31 and AN32 dye they are budget manufacturers with budget lines.
Thanks
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