User User name Password  
   
Friday 29.11.2024 / 09:43
Search AfterDawn Forums:        In English   Suomeksi   På svenska
afterdawn.com > forums > pc hardware > building a new pc > the official pc building thread - 4th edition
Show topics
 
Forums
Forums
The Official PC building thread - 4th Edition
  Jump to:
 
In case you want to ask something like "What components should I pick for my new PC?", start a new topic to our PC building forum.
Posted Message
AfterDawn Addict

7 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 04:46 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well... Some people like special features, trailers, etc. I prefer to leave my backups as preserved as I can ;) I generally can do without the trailers though. Bd-rebuilder for the win :D

I planned to get an EFI board in february. That way I can be done with the add-in card. I may use it in another tower though ;)

LOL! I saw that error too :S



To delete, or not to delete. THAT is the question!

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2011 @ 04:47

Advertisement
_
__
AfterDawn Addict

15 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 04:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Ahh compression and processing speed come into the equation is true.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 04:47 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Estuansis:
LOL Cloud storage. Stupidity made simple. Luckily for me my iPad 2 is jailbroken and will not be seeing any apple official updates :P

Need I remind anyone of the Apple camera driver debacle? Basically the jailbroken camera drivers are triple the quality. Apple literally nerfs their own camera app...
Lol steady now, I work in the cloud industry :)



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
AfterDawn Addict

15 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 04:49 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'm not here to appeal to you :P

Also been seeing the same error particularly today when editing messages. Got it when making this edit.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2011 @ 04:51

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 04:55 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Nah it's OK, we do a lot more than just cloud storage. It's the desktop, the mailboxes, the shared resources, the whole lot.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
AfterDawn Addict
_
10. November 2011 @ 08:32 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
for a 1080p rip with 5.1 audio 15gb is the max I would go personally.

store them on a hdd and stream to my tv, ironically using a BR player haha.

the only BRs I own are the planet earth series.

I just wish this HDD thing didn't happen for a month or so. Was planning a big hdd upgrade (well, small for you sam, but big otherwise lol)

oh and TV 720p rips having 6 channel audio would be nice



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
AfterDawn Addict

15 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 09:33 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Most of my 1080p rips are some 6-9GB and look fine on my TV. Ofc the 15GB rip is going to have better quality but considering it's already HD I'm just nitpicking. I usually go for middling quality rips vs high quality ones due entirely to storage space. The vast majority of my collection is 720p rips at 5GB and under and they honestly look fine.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388
AfterDawn Addict
_
10. November 2011 @ 09:44 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
how's the sound quality?



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
AfterDawn Addict

15 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 09:52 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
More or less fine. I've had a few with terrible sound for some odd reason, but the vast majority seem to have the typical high bitrate audio. 320kb/s and up usually. A few in particular sound just crap, and even fewer still strangely have only stereo audio... But yeah nothing really notable. Past about 1000kb/s I can't really tell the difference.



AMD Phenom II X6 1100T 4GHz(20 x 200) 1.5v 3000NB 2000HT, Corsair Hydro H110 w/ 4 x 140mm 1500RPM fans Push/Pull, Gigabyte GA-990FXA-UD5, 8GB(2 x 4GB) G.Skill RipJaws DDR3-1600 @ 1600MHz CL9 1.55v, Gigabyte GTX760 OC 4GB(1170/1700), Corsair 750HX
Detailed PC Specs: http://my.afterdawn.com/estuansis/blog_entry.cfm/11388

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2011 @ 09:55

Senior Member
_
10. November 2011 @ 10:28 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Estuansis:
I really don't do any media burning as my entire entertainment setup is running through the HDMI to my TV. Who needs an expensive BluRay player or PS3 when you can do the same thing without discs at all?

I'm going for reliability first, simplicity second. Obviously running RAID 1 adds to the complication but what doesn't these days. I'm probably happier in the long run throwing caution to the wind and using single drives for my storage.
Then you must be burning discs because if reliability is FIRST then optical media would be your choice!

Blu-ray players are cheap and media isn't bad either and if you are smart it doesn't take a lot of space to save backups either, like Sam and Creaky might want you to believe.

If simplicity and laziness is first than hard drives are the way to go however borrowing your movies to someone else or just bringing a movie to a friends becomes problematic. I like using both which provides me the best of both worlds and backups are not a problem because I buy my movies and back them up as I go, not a major pain.
AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:10 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by Estuansis:
I really don't do any media burning as my entire entertainment setup is running through the HDMI to my TV. Who needs an expensive BluRay player or PS3 when you can do the same thing without discs at all?

I'm going for reliability first, simplicity second. Obviously running RAID 1 adds to the complication but what doesn't these days. I'm probably happier in the long run throwing caution to the wind and using single drives for my storage.
Then you must be burning discs because if reliability is FIRST then optical media would be your choice!

Blu-ray players are cheap and media isn't bad either and if you are smart it doesn't take a lot of space to save backups either, like Sam and Creaky might want you to believe.

If simplicity and laziness is first than hard drives are the way to go however borrowing your movies to someone else or just bringing a movie to a friends becomes problematic. I like using both which provides me the best of both worlds and backups are not a problem because I buy my movies and back them up as I go, not a major pain.
Well, if a great amount of data storage is needed, within a reasonable size, available on demand, hard disks are the only option. The lazy option, without data available on demand, using reduced storage space in a larger physical size, is optical media. Burning discs is a relatively thoughtless process, but it's slow, the discs can't be erased (unless you buy expensive ones), and you can't easily flick through to find specific data. Hard disks may take longer to set up, but are by far the more efficient solution to actually use. They're much quicker to transfer data around, can be erased/rewritten as often as you like, and all the data is available all the time, assuming all the disks are attached to the PC.
It's easy to see why people prefer optical media for small collections, as generally speaking quality discs don't fail unless they get damaged or lost, whereas HDDs are always a potential risk unless they're backed up. Beyond about 200 discs though, using optical media gets very tedious, and really should be ditched in favour of proper mechanical storage.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
Moderator
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:11 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Each to their own Steve :), i spent years encoding, transcoding, burning, storing and whatnot re optical media, i eventually switched to both optical and hard drive copies, however that quickly became far too impractical.

That's basically why i switched to hard drives. Numerous people can access and watch whatever they want, simultaneously from one central media server, we use PC's and xboxes to access everything. No looking for anything, all just instantly accessible. Lazy if you will :)

And i still haven't got all the stuff i want to keep, off (i kid you not) ludicrous amounts of optical media yet - it takes too long, it's a pain, and the latest delay is the current Thai floods affecting the hard drive manufacturers/related component manufacturers, i simply can't afford any more drives!.

It's always Deja Vu in this thread on this subject i see :) :)



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2011 @ 11:11

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:11 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by shaffaaf:
how's the sound quality?
Almost universally, the sound in 1080p rips is 5.1 3-channel 1536kbps AC3. (512kbps per channel). Sounds good enough to me - ever considered a 512kbps MP3 inadequate?



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:13 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by creaky:
Each to their own Steve :), i spent years encoding, transcoding, burning, storing and whatnot re optical media, i eventually switched to both optical and hard drive copies, however that quickly became far too impractical.

That's basically why i switched to hard drives. Numerous people can access and watch whatever they want, simultaneously from one central media server, we use PC's and xboxes to access everything. No looking for anything, all just instantly accessible. Lazy if you will :)

And i still haven't got all the stuff i want to keep, off (i kid you not) ludicrous amounts of optical media yet - it takes too long, it's a pain, and the latest delay is the current Thai floods affecting the hard drive manufacturers/related component manufacturers, i simply can't afford any more drives!.

It's always Deja Vu in this thread on this subject i see :) :)
Indeed, i'm currently streaming a large quantity (2TB or so) of media over to a friend via the internet, through an entirely automated process, running overnight, every night. try doing that with the requisite number of optical discs. It's just not practical :)
Back when I was living with other students, the data was live network shared so multiple people could stream off different things at once. One person would be watching TV, another a film, another installing a game off the shared games drive. It all works simultaneously, with no hassle of changing discs. For single-user, low-storage, optical discs are simple, but they're the cheap, basic, low-end form of storage. Mechanical HDDs right now are the correct choice for large quantities of data (multiple TB).



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
Moderator
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:16 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
That reminds me, for TV series, i just use whatever 175MB/358MB/500ish MB are available 'out there' for the majority of my TV shows. After all it's the story ie the content of the shows i am interested in, not how crisp the images are/clarity of sound quality.
The only exception to this are two shows - Six Feet Under and Battlestar Galactica. The complete Six Feet series are in mkv's of 45GB or so in size (this was the the only easily accessible full set i could find of this show), Battlestar is all in 720p, 60ish GB, i wanted all of that show in nice quality for all the space/dark scenes.

edit- I've said it before and i'll say it for ever more, people should use whatever works best for them.



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2011 @ 11:21

AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:23 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I've had a fair few shows bigger than 60GB - Mythbusters, for one is 300GB or so now.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
Moderator
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:29 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I wonder what this will do to system prices ~ Thailand Floods: Hard Drive Shortage Will Get Worse



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
It might push them up a bit, but what you'll most likely see is the current system of having PCs ship with 500/1000/2000GB drives, drop down to 80/120/160/250/320/500GB drives, in the 'off the shelf' market. Those drives have not suffered so badly as they're so unpopular.
It will definitely get worse before it gets better though. I would not be surprised to see prices for 1TB drives exceed $500 before the crisis is over.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2011 @ 11:32

Senior Member
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:31 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by creaky:
Each to their own Steve :), i spent years encoding, transcoding, burning, storing and whatnot re optical media, i eventually switched to both optical and hard drive copies, however that quickly became far too impractical.

That's basically why i switched to hard drives. Numerous people can access and watch whatever they want, simultaneously from one central media server, we use PC's and xboxes to access everything. No looking for anything, all just instantly accessible. Lazy if you will :)

And i still haven't got all the stuff i want to keep, off (i kid you not) ludicrous amounts of optical media yet - it takes too long, it's a pain, and the latest delay is the current Thai floods affecting the hard drive manufacturers/related component manufacturers, i simply can't afford any more drives!.

It's always Deja Vu in this thread on this subject i see :) :)
Then you are doing something wrong as I too have tons of DVD's and BD's and it is not a pain, but then I keep organized. Hands done it is the safest way to go but like I said I use HDD's too but just not too safe to rely on ONLY even if you put a HDD away as backup one problem inserting it into your system and woo-la everything is gone.

Stevo :)
AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:33 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by Mr-Movies:
Originally posted by creaky:
Each to their own Steve :), i spent years encoding, transcoding, burning, storing and whatnot re optical media, i eventually switched to both optical and hard drive copies, however that quickly became far too impractical.

That's basically why i switched to hard drives. Numerous people can access and watch whatever they want, simultaneously from one central media server, we use PC's and xboxes to access everything. No looking for anything, all just instantly accessible. Lazy if you will :)

And i still haven't got all the stuff i want to keep, off (i kid you not) ludicrous amounts of optical media yet - it takes too long, it's a pain, and the latest delay is the current Thai floods affecting the hard drive manufacturers/related component manufacturers, i simply can't afford any more drives!.

It's always Deja Vu in this thread on this subject i see :) :)
Then you are doing something wrong as I too have tons of DVD's and BD's and it is not a pain, but then I keep organized. Hands done it is the safest way to go but like I said I use HDD's too but just not too safe to rely on ONLY even if you put a HDD away as backup one problem inserting it into your system and woo-la everything is gone.

Stevo :)
Backups are universal - I use them with mechanical drives - if I had this much data on ODDs, I'd make duplicate copies of them too. It's not like defective discs don't exist.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
Moderator
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
I'll have to find out how this affects our parent company, it probably doesn't though; let's just say they're large enough that they can get manufacturers to put aside ludicrous amounts of laptops and desktops, and be supplied long after those models are superceded, to allow them to image machines en masse; this allows them to only have to maintain a tiny amount of images. Our company however are still buying machines adhoc for now, so i guess prices will creep up a little while we still buy that way.

Steve - don't you get tired of telling people they're wrong ?, it's getting a little old already :). Plus you're underestimating how organised i am, and how long. But i'm not the one arguing!, i'm quite happy that others do things differently to me.



Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***

This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 10. November 2011 @ 11:41

AfterDawn Addict
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:37 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by sammorris:
Originally posted by shaffaaf:
how's the sound quality?
Almost universally, the sound in 1080p rips is 5.1 3-channel 1536kbps AC3. (512kbps per channel). Sounds good enough to me - ever considered a 512kbps MP3 inadequate?
even the 5/6gb 1080p rips?

tbh I onky have 320kbs mp3, not heard a 512kbs one, but 256 to me is the bare minimum I want to listen to



MGR (Micro Gaming Rig) .|. Intel Q6600 @ 3.45GHz .|. Asus P35 P5K-E/WiFi .|. 4GB 1066MHz Geil Black Dragon RAM .|. Samsung F60 SSD .|. Corsair H50-1 Cooler .|. Sapphire 4870 512MB .|. Lian Li PC-A70B .|. Be Queit P7 Dark Power Pro 850W PSU .|. 24" 1920x1200 DGM (MVA Panel) .|. 24" 1920x1080 Dell (TN Panel) .|.
AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:38 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Well, 'creep up' - the current increase is between 50% and 180%.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
AfterDawn Addict

4 product reviews
_
10. November 2011 @ 11:41 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by shaffaaf:
Originally posted by sammorris:
Originally posted by shaffaaf:
how's the sound quality?
Almost universally, the sound in 1080p rips is 5.1 3-channel 1536kbps AC3. (512kbps per channel). Sounds good enough to me - ever considered a 512kbps MP3 inadequate?
even the 5/6gb 1080p rips?

tbh I onky have 320kbs mp3, not heard a 512kbs one, but 256 to me is the bare minimum I want to listen to
8GB 1080p rips certainly - less than that you'd have to check the details (open the file and look, or check the index site page details for wherever you're getting the file). In some cases they might use 768k (3x256) instead, not sure how often I've seen that. I've never encountered a 720p+ file with poor quality audio though, other than glitches.



Afterdawn Addict // Silent PC enthusiast // PC Build advisor // LANGamer Alias:Ratmanscoop
PC Specs page -- http://my.afterdawn.com/sammorris/blog_entry.cfm/11247
updated 10-Dec-13
Advertisement
_
__
 
_
Senior Member
_
10. November 2011 @ 12:05 _ Link to this message    Send private message to this user   
Originally posted by creaky:
I'll have to find out how this affects our parent company, it probably doesn't though; let's just say they're large enough that they can get manufacturers to put aside ludicrous amounts of laptops and desktops, and be supplied long after those models are superceded, to allow them to image machines en masse; this allows them to only have to maintain a tiny amount of images. Our company however are still buying machines adhoc for now, so i guess prices will creep up a little while we still buy that way.

Steve - don't you get tired of telling people they're wrong ?, it's getting a little old already :). Plus you're underestimating how organised i am, and how long. But i'm not the one arguing!, i'm quite happy that others do things differently to me.
It's not an argument it is a fact and you are a part of this discussion too so don't forget your part. I pointed out that Estuansis point has fault and it does, I stated that you and Sam would disagree and then you started the argument. You both take personal preference as your argument against fact. I personally don't care what you prefer to do as that is your choice but when you argue against fact it becomes miss leading, this is my point.

So you would be starting the argument when it comes right down to it. I like Sam's counter that you can find bad media well that works both ways but more so for mechanical devices.

It's up to you if you want to rehash this all over again.

Stevo :)
 
afterdawn.com > forums > pc hardware > building a new pc > the official pc building thread - 4th edition
 

Digital video: AfterDawn.com | AfterDawn Forums
Music: MP3Lizard.com
Gaming: Blasteroids.com | Blasteroids Forums | Compare game prices
Software: Software downloads
Blogs: User profile pages
RSS feeds: AfterDawn.com News | Software updates | AfterDawn Forums
International: AfterDawn in Finnish | AfterDawn in Swedish | AfterDawn in Norwegian | download.fi
Navigate: Search | Site map
About us: About AfterDawn Ltd | Advertise on our sites | Rules, Restrictions, Legal disclaimer & Privacy policy
Contact us: Send feedback | Contact our media sales team
 
  © 1999-2024 by AfterDawn Ltd.

  IDG TechNetwork