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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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spamual
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16. November 2008 @ 19:17 |
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very nice. what cooler for the CPU do you have?
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. November 2008 @ 19:24 |
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ACF 7 pro. im not sure yet if im gonna get the hdd seeing i have 4 right now.
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16. November 2008 @ 19:30 |
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harvrdguy,
Thank you, you said it all for me sir! Moving in the right direction is exactly what I was talking about. This is fascinating and cutting edge technology here! The point Sam made about the Hybrid Crossfire is true to a point. The fact that the on-board will not be wasted, but put to good use may be a negligible gain, but at least it will no longer be a loss! In fact Anandtech says that the improvement is about 60%! The on-board alone can handle an impressive list of games better than the 7600GT I have now. Even Crysis will play on it, within the limitations of the on-board video of course. Just the fact that you can buy a MB with On-board Graphics that will do that speaks volumes for the future of integrated video graphics. It's long been a dream to have a one chip computer where you chose the chip by the options you want, with the CPU, Video and chipset all on one chip. This is just one more step towards that end It's certainly a large step in the right direction. It also opens up gaming to people who only occasionally play games, not to mention the Breathtaking graphics when watching a DVD Movie or playing games! At $65 for that Biostar MB, it's basically free too! If AMD can do the same thing with chipsets for i7, as I expect they will, AMD will be firmly back in business! Go AMD!
Russ
Originally posted by harvrdguy:
Originally posted by sam:
hybrid crossfire, nice idea as it is, will offer you negligible gains simply because the real card is ten, maybe even up to twenty times as fast.
Fanboy!!
Just kidding. Well, maybe at least they're moving in the right direction. I guess the idea is that, if you get the 780 board, for many families you will be set - you can do your video encoding, play a few minor games, boost it up a bit with a 3000 series card, and you're screwed if you want a 4000 card. Hahahaha.
The anandtech article is totally fascinating, and those guys were impressed with the little card - even excited by it which they admitted was the first time they have gotten excited about on-board graphics in a long time. Originally posted by Anandtech - see Russ' link up above:
Overall, the combination of the 780G and SB700 brings AMD to the forefront in features and performance in the IGP market.
Well - let's hope AMD keeps moving in that direction and begins to develop some serious competition.
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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spamual
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16. November 2008 @ 19:50 |
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how does it still compare with nvidias new 9400 IGP out?
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16. November 2008 @ 19:51 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
I didn't realise there was anything but E0 for the E8600...
Rich: It being the best IGP is right, but yet, it's still very slow indeed.
Sam,
Not as slow as you would think though! I fully expected much less performance than I got with the 4400+. To say that I was surprised by the performance would be an understatement. It's funny, I can sit down and work with a slower Intel, and I can't wait to get back on my own rig. I can't say that with OxiMoron! I use it often and it's a perfectly comfortable machine to use, and I'm never sitting there wishing I was on My C2D. It's slower, for sure but still remarkably quick. It's also extremely smooth, in places where the Intels seem kind of clunky. It multitasks well, and the DVDRB/CCE times are close enough to my main rig that I don't fuss over them! I accept the slower speed and expect it, but somehow AMD has pulled all of this together in such a way that you never really notice that it's slower, so it doesn't have me longing for my C2D. It somehow manages to appear faster than the numbers would indicate!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. November 2008 @ 20:31 |
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What perhaps has been forgotten is that up until the Core 2 Duos AMDs were competitive, whereas Intel's previous CPUs weren't. Going from a core 2 to an AthlonX2 or Athlon64 is a bit of a downgrade, but going from a core 2 to a Pentium D or P4 is much more of one.
As for hybrid crossfire, a truly powerful card like the HD4670 or HD4830 would probably see a 5-10% gain at best from it.
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16. November 2008 @ 20:38 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
What perhaps has been forgotten is that up until the Core 2 Duos AMDs were competitive, whereas Intel's previous CPUs weren't. Going from a core 2 to an AthlonX2 or Athlon64 is a bit of a downgrade, but going from a core 2 to a Pentium D or P4 is much more of one.
As for hybrid crossfire, a truly powerful card like the HD4670 or HD4830 would probably see a 5-10% gain at best from it.
Sam,
Again, it's still an improvement rather than something that becomes useless with the addition of a 16x PCI-e card! It's not wasted!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. November 2008 @ 20:52 |
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True, but if I remember rightly, you can save as much power as a card like the HD4550 uses by getting a board without the integrated chip, 20 watts saved is 20 watts saved. (Yes, the HD4550 only uses that much, makes the 250 the 4870X2 uses seem criminal!)
Also, for the record, I've just hooked my headphones up to my integrated sound - wow. I thought the electrical interference of onboard sound was a thing of the past. Seemingly not, a good set of headphones reveals all that background noise like you wouldn't believe. It's like listening to the fan in my old Thermaltake PSU again! lol
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. November 2008 @ 20:53
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16. November 2008 @ 21:13 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
True, but if I remember rightly, you can save as much power as a card like the HD4550 uses by getting a board without the integrated chip, 20 watts saved is 20 watts saved. (Yes, the HD4550 only uses that much, makes the 250 the 4870X2 uses seem criminal!)
Also, for the record, I've just hooked my headphones up to my integrated sound - wow. I thought the electrical interference of onboard sound was a thing of the past. Seemingly not, a good set of headphones reveals all that background noise like you wouldn't believe. It's like listening to the fan in my old Thermaltake PSU again! lol
Hmm, I recently got the Sennheiser HD 280PRO headphones as I needed something quality to use when I want to practice or write arrangements without interfering with the rest of the house. My sound is clear as a bell through the headphones! My MB has the Realtek 889A HD Audio.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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spamual
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16. November 2008 @ 23:07 |
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the thing is if you are going to be gaming, then getting a c2d and a 4850 would be a much better outlay than getting an X2 and hybird CF. hybrid CF and SLI elude me. im not sure what market they are going for as getting a crap GPU + crap on board doesnt exactly make for good gaming nore do you need a discreet card for office/HD watching. Its basically useless.
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. November 2008 @ 23:17 |
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The way I see it, the sort of person that is willing to suffer the downsides of dual graphics technology is the sort of person that will understand that Core 2s can be overclocked a lot, very easily. That $130 vs $100 CPU with a cheap Gigabyte board, with no Integrated graphics holding it back, will end up a real powerhouse on a budget. I would wager you could easily get that CPU to 3.2Ghz even on the piddly stock cooler, at which point it will obliterate any AMD, especially for gaming. Leaving hybrid graphics behind and grabbing a cheap card like the HD4670, for under $350 you can have the whole lot, CPU, RAM, Motherboard and GPU, and all in very high-spec form. Add 50 dollars or so for an Earthwatts power supply, and you're done!
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16. November 2008 @ 23:17 |
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Originally posted by spamual:
the thing is if you are going to be gaming, then getting a c2d and a 4850 would be a much better outlay than getting an X2 and hybird CF. hybrid CF and SLI elude me. im not sure what market they are going for as getting a crap GPU + crap on board doesnt exactly make for good gaming nore do you need a discreet card for office/HD watching. Its basically useless.
I quite agree, if you are a gamer then choose Intel, but if you are an occasional gamer buy want better than average video, the 780G is a route you can be happy with for a very low price! I wouldn't call the OBG a crap GPU by any means. The HD 3200 OBG is that good! You know, these people that test this stuff aren't normally excited about OBG, and for some reason Anandtech is! I would imagine it would do quite nicely with a decent HD 4850 in it in Hybrid CrossFire! For $65, I'm going to find out! LOL!!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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16. November 2008 @ 23:21 |
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The 780G is not for the occasional gamer. It's for the non-gamer, full stop, or the absolute casual gamer that only plays software-rendered games. Even older FPS games like Counter-Strike Source or Quake 4 have to be bottomed to run properly on even the best IGPs.
Half Life 2 Episode Two
780G: 30fps at 800x600, all Medium
HD4670 ($80): 50fps at 1920x1200, absolute maximum, 4xAA, 16xAF
HD4870 1GB ($300): 70fps at 2560x1600, absolute maximum, 8xAA, 16xAF
Spot the difference.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. November 2008 @ 23:26
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16. November 2008 @ 23:28 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The way I see it, the sort of person that is willing to suffer the downsides of dual graphics technology is the sort of person that will understand that Core 2s can be overclocked a lot, very easily. That $130 vs $100 CPU with a cheap Gigabyte board, with no Integrated graphics holding it back, will end up a real powerhouse on a budget. I would wager you could easily get that CPU to 3.2Ghz even on the piddly stock cooler, at which point it will obliterate any AMD, especially for gaming. Leaving hybrid graphics behind and grabbing a cheap card like the HD4670, for under $350 you can have the whole lot, CPU, RAM, Motherboard and GPU, and all in very high-spec form. Add 50 dollars or so for an Earthwatts power supply, and you're done!
True, but I can do a 2.8GHz 5400+ w/MB for 150 Bucks, and I'm not a gamer! The CPU is $40 cheaper so I can do it for $290 less! nice price for a Media PC you can play games on and OCing is a viable option! Especially when one has no need to spend $350 for a graphics card!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. November 2008 @ 23:32 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. November 2008 @ 23:34
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spamual
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16. November 2008 @ 23:35 |
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i smell a challenge :D gimie one sec
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. November 2008 @ 23:43 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. November 2008 @ 23:48
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spamual
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16. November 2008 @ 23:47 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
Originally posted by sammorris:
The way I see it, the sort of person that is willing to suffer the downsides of dual graphics technology is the sort of person that will understand that Core 2s can be overclocked a lot, very easily. That $130 vs $100 CPU with a cheap Gigabyte board, with no Integrated graphics holding it back, will end up a real powerhouse on a budget. I would wager you could easily get that CPU to 3.2Ghz even on the piddly stock cooler, at which point it will obliterate any AMD, especially for gaming. Leaving hybrid graphics behind and grabbing a cheap card like the HD4670, for under $350 you can have the whole lot, CPU, RAM, Motherboard and GPU, and all in very high-spec form. Add 50 dollars or so for an Earthwatts power supply, and you're done!
True, but I can do a 2.8GHz 5400+ w/MB for 150 Bucks, and I'm not a gamer! The CPU is $40 cheaper so I can do it for $290 less! nice price for a Media PC you can play games on and OCing is a viable option! Especially when one has no need to spend $350 for a graphics card!
Russ
what is your newegg list for your build, so i have a price to work off, and components to match/beat, IF i can
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AfterDawn Addict
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16. November 2008 @ 23:50 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 16. November 2008 @ 23:51
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17. November 2008 @ 00:01 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819116072
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128356
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145184
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102724
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817371005
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136098
$288 after rebates, including PSU, and on top of that a 320GB hard disk. Better games performance than the HD3200 (granted not by much), equal stellar HD playback, solid CPU performance, 4GB of decent RAM. For sub 300 dollars, all you're lacking is a case, oh and a DVD burner, which cost what, 20 bucks? :P
I already have everything but the MB and the CPU so it's $150 for me! harvrdguy had it right, there is a market there and this forum thread should be encouraging it. Life without AMD, could get very expensive! This isn't the The Official Intel PC building thread. You and Shaff are heavy duty gamers, but not everybody is so why diss a good product because it isn't fast enough for you! What AMD is offering would be very good for a lot of people. If they have an AM2 MB in thier computer, for $65 they can gain 15% more performance or more just by changing the MB!
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. November 2008 @ 00:11 |
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For you personally, and of course it makes sense for you to build an AMD system on that basis. For everyone else though, that $300 build is a bit of an anti-AMD bombshell. That said, it's not like you can't get a decent PC out of an AMD. I suppose I have a hard time isolating myself from all the things that make AMD useless for high end gaming rigs of late, when considering the low end, things like incompatibilities with AMD's own graphics cards (not making it up), and the very mediocre gaming performance of even the best AMD CPUs.
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spamual
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17. November 2008 @ 00:15 |
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. November 2008 @ 00:17 |
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Let's face it, AMD aren't once the little shed that could, they're a huge corporation now, and buying 'to save them' makes no sense. You buy what's best, and that's that.
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rick5446
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17. November 2008 @ 01:03 |
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17. November 2008 @ 01:05 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 17. November 2008 @ 01:06
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