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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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17. November 2008 @ 22:35 |
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lol
Shaf, your wit is as sharp as a double sided sword; and double sided it is.
Everyone has a point. According to Russ we should support AMD because it will help keep them afloat which will keep the competition going.
What Sam and I say is that if you want to do that, then fine. If it's up to us we will recommend the best bang for buck and that just happens to be Intel. All the benchmarks show them to be faster.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. November 2008 @ 01:29 |
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sammorris,
Quote:
This can only end badly...
I might point out that if people would only have minded their own business and not made comments where no comments were needed there wouldn't be a problem to begin with! If my choice is AMD, it's my choice! I never once asked any questions about AMD or for help, yet I got so much static for nothing.
This is the building thread! As far as I'm concerned since you two don't have anything good to say about AMD so I'm going to ask that I be allowed to start an AMD building thread. Maybe then people who like and want to build AMDs could get something accomplished with some help and advice from people who can provide it without having Intel shoved down their throats! It's like a guy saying to his friend that he wants a Pontiac, and his friend tells him, no you don't, you want a Chevrolet and for the next week he keeps telling him you want a chevrolet because! It doesn't change the fact that the first guy said "I want a Pontiac"!
While you and spamual were busy shooting down everything I had to say about this new MB and possible CPU combination's, you totally missed a major technological breakthrough! never in the history of PCs has there ever been such a huge increase in performance just by changing a motherboard! Not in the modern era! a 15% minimum increase in performance form the same CPU is major news! Just imagine how big an effect a chipset like this would make for Intel motherboards and you get the general idea. You guys acted like I had said a bad word!
Spamual is accusing me of changing my story every time you guys prove me wrong, which is something I did not do. I plainly qualified that I was interested in putting one of these boards in OxiMoron, an inexpensive and worthwhile upgrade for any owner of the older AM2 technology! I also stated that I could do a build for myself for very little money. I also stated that I had everything but the MB, memory and CPU for a new build. I don't have to lay out a lot of cash to do it. All of a sudden I got all sorts of quotes on what I could get that would be so much better, even though the cost to me would be much less because of what I already have on hand. I posted the components needed and their cost. I didn't ask for price quotes for an Intel build, but I got them anyway! Why? To be shown the "Error of my ways"! You've made it quite plain that anyone asking advice on an AMD build is going the get overwhelmed with how much better the Intel is.
I contacted Rick in a PM to tell him about the BioStar A780G M2+SE because it would be great for the build he is planning. Had I posted it here, there would have been even more BS! There's far to much "IMO" here with too little answers to the questions posed!
Quote:
We are being repromanded for solely recommending Intel systems over AMDs due to the cost increase of doing so, apparently.
You weren't then, but you are now! By ddp! I'll add that it's not your place to criticize someone else's choices if they don't ask! Neither you or spamual have any hands on experience with this MB, while I've actually built and used one. I see many socket AM2 dual cores as they are very popular here. Mostly 4400+ and 4800+! The only other member that has recent experience with an AMD in this MB, is GM, and he agrees with me that it's a great little MB, and the one he put together was a 3600+ Sempron! The fact that I decided that I might just build a more powerful computer with that MB and a 5050e became a total pissing contest, not of my making! I am disappointed though, I was fully expecting benchmarks!
Anway, I am still going to ask Admin if I can open a thread for AMD builds. A thread where someone can go to find out things about AMDs. I was sincerely hoping that it would happen on this thread, but you and spamual have made it crystal clear that AMD is not welcome here and that you consider it inferior! I want a thread where AMD builders won't feel like outcasts or stupid. Judging by the sales of them, they deserved much better than that on this thread!
Respectfully,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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rick5446
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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18. November 2008 @ 01:44 |
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BOY O BOY Why can't we all just take a deep BREATH and back up just a TAD..lets face it we are all considered Adults in TEXT hear some are younger,some older. But still Adults, and hopefully still friends. I personally find Bad news as good as Good News. YOU LEARN FROM IT ALL
P.S. Betcha I can Piss farther then anybody, I measured it once 10 ft straight out., beet that.Thats when I was 60, when I was in my 30's I could Piss 15ft straight up, of course I had to get out of the way pretty fast if the wind changed. So OK lets start a real Pissing contest
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spamual
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18. November 2008 @ 02:51 |
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well put it simply, for the money to performance, right now intel cannot be beat, so why recommend anything else. the 9400 chipset from nvidia is better for gaming:
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3432&p=4
power consumption is less
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3432&p=11
apple are using it in their new macs..(that says something)
no difference in quailty of video
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=3432&p=6
If AMD were doing better(which i do hope they do, as i hope nvidia do better on the gfx scene, becuase competition is needed, or we get i7 style prices) then we would be recomending them. why recomend something worse?
ofcourse if someone wanted an AMD, we would recommend an intel right now, becuase we would rather see someone make use of their money than blow it. its a reason why we recomend the 4870 over a GTX260. similar in price but the 4870 walks over the GTX260 in all btu a few games. if someone said i want an nvidia card, we would say get an ATI, due to the fact that for the price it cannot be beaten. last year we were (well i was atleast) recommending nvidia cards, such as the ever brilliant 8800GT, till on the 14th of july the 4850 came and changed that.
bar asus i am not a fanboy, (well okay count lian-li :D) and i recommend best for buck (or pound).
Originally posted by russ:
True, but I can do a 2.8GHz 5400+ w/MB for 150 Bucks, and I'm not a gamer! The CPU is $40 cheaper so I can do it for $290 less! nice price for a Media PC you can play games on and OCing is a viable option! Especially when one has no need to spend $350 for a graphics card!
so here you said a less than $300 media PC which can overclock and cam play games AMD PC could be built.
at that point the challenge was set. you didnt tell us the size of HDD, type of case how many ODDs and how much ram. yet i bet sams rig would kill it.
next you said you could build:
http://img253.imageshack.us/my.php?image=testanc8.jpg
and that would be powerfull.
$236 inc postage and tax to you minus the rebates.
i then posted something, which minus rebates, and not inc postage/tax = $207. add about $35 ish for tax/postage = $242, $6 over yours yet a much better former in OCing, gaming, and just over all uses.
and then after we have proven you wrong you go ahead and say all you need is a 65$ mobo, when you started by saying you could build a $300 that was good from AMD.
when someone decided to ask for help on a forum, its open for opinions for and against it. where in the rules does it say we cannot comment on somones post when they have asked for help. why would we mind our business
Originally posted by rick:
Is this a decent CPU
AMD Phenom 8450 Toliman 2.1GHz 3 x 512KB L2 Cache 2MB L3 Cache Socket AM2+ 95W Triple-Core Processor $99.99 Free Shipping
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103254
I'm wanting to build a Comp 4 my Grand Daughter, 4 Xmas. I don't want to spend a fortune. But at the same time I want something reliable. Also so she can do some Video Conversions at a decent speed, along with other tasks
was not aimed at anyone in particular, but the whole forum it seems. as we are part of this forum, then it makes it our businesses, or else im sure he would have just PMed you if he wanted to talk to you and only wanted your opinion. its not your forum.
and one again if for the price the chevvy beats the pontiac, then why the hell wouldnt one tell the friend to get the chevvy?
unless ofcourse its a fanboy situation, and i say i want an asus, and sam tells me to go gigabyte, in which case id be in his house asap (and his house is a nice trek from mine, did it once, not again :p) and be stealing his brand new (refurbished) 3008 WFP, for his comment!!!! hehe
no one said AMDs are not welcome, they are, just tell them to stop playing arround and make a CPU worth buying. tell me how many P4s and PDs you were recommending back when the X2s and XPs were completely destroying the market?
Its funny how you say you cannot speak about AMDs, never have we said that, if someone wants amd, and me and sam and who ever says intel, shows proof why, and then they still want amd, its ultimately their choice, but why should we let them spend money where it will be wasted when intel would be better? thats why we would keep going on about intel.
You know a few months back, replace AMD with ASUS and im sure mort aswell as me felt that exact way...
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 03:15 |
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I wish you wouldn't keep comparing CPUs to cars Russ, it's a flawed analogy. For all intents and purposes there's nothing but personal preference in it. For AMD vs Intel, Intel is the better product, there's no denying it, do you really think I would have gone on and on about this if I knew it wasn't the case?
Also, what? ddp has had nothing to do with the AMD vs Intel scenario, he has (and wisely) pointed out the fact that not everybody can/should overclock. I didn't see a word on this particular subject come from him.
Start your own AMD thread if you must, but it's just an enthusiasts' lounge. I'm still recommending basic core 2 systems even as workstations, as will a lot of people. Are AMDs completely useless? Of course not. Are they bad processors? No. Are Intel processors the better option for anyone not upgrading a current system? Yes. Fact is, whether you realised it or not, Spamual has a point about you changing the subject, it started off as a 'nice build for $300' and all of a sudden it switched to your own personal upgrade. You don't seem to have realised I am 100% for you upgrading your AMD with another AMD CPU, that just makes plain sense, changing to an Intel would be pointless for you. But unless people already have an AM2 board worth its salt, they may as well go Intel.
To disagree with Spamual as well (lol), the 9400 chipset is simply an effort at upping games performance on integrated. yes, it's 20% better than a 780G, but that's a little like saying it is a 20% bigger grain of rice, where a normal graphics card is a whole dinner, it's a relatively worthless increase. The 9400 loses the excellent quality High-def playback the 780G has, so right now, that is one case where the AMD chipset genuinely does make sense.
Also, that's an anandtech review. Call me biased, but I stopped blindly accepting their reviews as truth a long time ago.
According to a site I do still trust, thetechreport, the idle consumption of the 780G is 15W lower than the 9300 (and as far as I can see the 9400 and 9300 are the same)
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Senior Member
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18. November 2008 @ 04:58 |
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To me this thread has gone way off course.This to me is supposed to be a PC building thread not the overclocking thread and not the persuasion thread of building other than what was posted. I for one have not seen a decent reply other than don't use AMD but use Intel or this MOBO other than what was posted because of overclocking etc. etc.Not everyone is a gamer and I thought this thread was for a person building his or her PC for their own specfic reasons.I'll use whatever hardware I prefer and not have a person preaching to me about how much it'll cost me to run it for a year or spend more money than allotted because it's more bang for the buck on features I'll never use, along with how much more quieter it is. I for one love the sound of the fans cranked up. A few people hijack every thread with out a significant answer to the original OP. The pissing matches are going to far out for what this threads supposed to be.To build a system with decent onboard graphics rather than the expense of a video card that I don't need the extra expense of is a waste of words to me. I do want to hear first hand experience not a link to another outside report from else where, that's like taking a magazines word as gold. My two cents to the outspoken few.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. November 2008 @ 06:58 |
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Spamual & Sam,
You two sound like politicians, twisting my words around. Let's face it you are right and I am wrong! OK? Anything else will just continue this discussion. Hell, you've managed to take just about everything I said and somehow not understand what I was saying in the first place. I never said that I could build a complete Media Center PC for $300. Here's the quote, show me where I said that!
Quote:
True, but I can do a 2.8GHz 5400+ w/MB for 150 Bucks, and I'm not a gamer! The CPU is $40 cheaper so I can do it for $290 less! nice price for a Media PC you can play games on and OCing is a viable option! Especially when one has no need to spend $350 for a graphics card!
The parts I needed to do one for myself would have been under $300. I included newegg links for what I would need. I would have thought the with the shopping cart from newegg included, it would have been obvious what I was talking about! I didn't even send this to you, it was sent to Sam in response to a list of recommendations he made. All I did was substitute the parts I needed to do the job and the price difference was $290
Sam,
Quote:
This can only end badly...
My impression of that, was that spamual was going to get in trouble for back-talking ddp, and you were leery of the consequences, that's all!
None of this really matters anymore anyway. I'm going to ask Admin if I can create an AMD building thread. This is my last post on this thread whether they say yes or no. I'm not some newbie who knows nothing about computers. I've been doing this for a very long time. My main living now is repairing computers so I get to see a lot of different rigs, mostly AMDs. I know that I like the AMDs, and I like them in spite of their shortcomings. I can see the improvement that the 780G chipset made in the 4400+, and I'll eventually find out how good the 5050e 2.6gHz will do in it. There are many other people who feel the same way as I do who are interested in building AMDs, and I intend to build a nucleus around that and have some fun for a change. Other forums are starting to separate Intel and AMD, so why not AD. It would certainly lower my stress levels.
Oh, spamual. you mentioned before something about Pentium and Pentium Ds and that no one would consider one after the 64x2s came out. I built a D-940 in an AMD 64x2 world! Ask Sam, he'll tell you. I got it overclocked pretty good too.
I finally bought an E4300 and put it in the 965P GigaByte and retired the D-940 to Russell's care. We retired that when the third motherboard went belly up. I didn't want replace it, so instead I got Oxi, which wound up costing less than nothing. In fact by the time I sold everything that was in the D-940 in an old 4000+ single core machine we no longer used, we had made $200 over my cost to get oxi, and that's after deducting the cost of the 4800+, 2GB G.Skill DDR2/800 memory, Thermaltake 500w PSU, Freezer 64 and a 50mm fan for the chipset! The best part is that everybody involved, wound up happy!
See you all around on other threads.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 07:15 |
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It's funny you should mention the Pentium Ds, I thought about that last night - for the shortcomings of my overclock of my CPU, even at its rock solid 3.65Ghz, I worked it out, that's like a 4Ghz 65nm Quad, two 4.5Ghz 65nm Core 2 Duos, two 5.5Ghz Athlon X2s, or two 8.5Ghz Pentium Ds.... lmao
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 10:14 |
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 12:03 |
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Hehe, three DVD burners... :)
Stunning build though Rob, should be a laugh, if expensive, nearly $1500
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Moderator
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18. November 2008 @ 12:09 |
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Originally posted by theonejrs:
I'm going to ask Admin if I can create an AMD building thread.
go for it Russ, and i'll sticky it..
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
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spamual
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18. November 2008 @ 12:25 |
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seems good to me, (whats the 3 dvd drives for, i have never understood why people have more than 1),
also for the 4850 to take advantage of 1GB it needs to be used with laods of AA/AF at 1920+, but the framerates will be too low. IMO its really unnecessary.
bar that, seems good :) (esp the mobo :P HAHA)
rob (or should i call you GM again :p) the noctua NH-U12P comes with 1366 mounting if you email them, they will send you it for free. there is also a TRUE 1366 in the works.
http://www.guru3d.com/news/noctua-nhu12p...66-for-core-i7/
chris we have been discussing (aka arguing) about PC building, and AMD vs intel is a BIG part of that. when building a PC overclocking is alot a part of that, though not neccassary, and gaming is also.
this is not the specific only work PC building, no OCing, no gaming, ONLY ODD (:p haha) thread. it is the geenral building thread, and that covers all. we are not OT, becuase we have been discussing building a PC...(albeit heatedly)
if its a personal build you want to be using this thread for, then why would you want to make it public by putting it on this thread. ofcourse if we feel you arnt making the most for your money we will tell you, its a forum, sue us if you dont want our opinions.
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Moderator
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18. November 2008 @ 12:31 |
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spamual - give it a rest already...
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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spamual
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18. November 2008 @ 12:44 |
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aye aye (Mr UK) cap'in
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Member
2 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 12:47 |
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think of upgarding to the AMD phenom but what would the impact be if i was to put cpu in a non am2+ board. my Asus m2n sli deluxe support the cpu but only has am2 chip so what that slow it down alot or would it be mineor.
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spamual
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18. November 2008 @ 12:53 |
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i dont think it should limit anything, it is officially supported, but none + mobos lack HT3.0.
as soon as russ' thread gets opened, he would be a huge help for you :)
tbh IICR HT3.0 allows for specific core OCing and tuning, and faster RAM support, but let russ confirm this, or someone with more knowlege than my self
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Member
2 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 12:58 |
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thanks spamual.
can anyone else shed any light on this.
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. November 2008 @ 13:39 |
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Originally posted by creaky:
Originally posted by theonejrs:
I'm going to ask Admin if I can create an AMD building thread.
go for it Russ, and i'll sticky it..
Oh my gosh!! What have we come to when we have to have separate threads for building?? I guess it will keep the confusion down if nothing else. lol.
If I can help in either thread I'll do what I can.
In the mean time you silly buggers act like you know you should!! :P
....gm
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 14:17 |
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Originally posted by spamual:
seems good to me, (whats the 3 dvd drives for, i have never understood why people have more than 1),
you havent heard 3 or more drives spinning up at the same time getting ready to burn have you???? lmao.. it is awsome aint it Greensman?!!!!!
so then i shouldnt worry about a hd4850 and get a 9800gt. or not worry about a HD 4950 with 1gig of mem? stick with the 512mb
i have been doing some reading on the i7's that are out now.. seems prety impressive... they are being OC'd well over 4.5ghz and work wonders on video encodeing which is what i do...lol so once the job situation is good again and the I7's have been out and the bugs fixed i will be on board...
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. November 2008 @ 14:19
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 14:51 |
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I've heard six HDDs spin up at once, that's good enough :)
Navskin, remind me, which Power supply do you use? The Phenoms use a ludicrous amount of power, so you ought to chedk if your unit can take it...
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. November 2008 @ 15:56 |
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GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
2 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 18:16 |
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So, guys, I want to do a Core i7 build. I can't find any CPU coolers though.
Any help?
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ddp
Moderator
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18. November 2008 @ 19:33 |
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spamual, this thread is about pc building then what the hell are you guys talking about overclocking then? what does the sub title say, spamual? also don't piss me off as you'll not be on this site again, understood?
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. November 2008 @ 19:49 |
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Originally posted by navskin:
think of upgarding to the AMD phenom but what would the impact be if i was to put cpu in a non am2+ board. my Asus m2n sli deluxe support the cpu but only has am2 chip so what that slow it down alot or would it be mineor.
navskin,
The difference would only be noticeable if you used the new tech 780G motherboards, otherwise it would be about the same as any Old (?) Tech AM2 MB.
Here's the link to The New AMD Building Thread!
http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/719940
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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18. November 2008 @ 20:57 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. November 2008 @ 21:11
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