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The Official PC building thread -3rd Edition
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Any Flaming Results in a Temp Ban or Worse. Your Choice!!!
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. March 2010 @ 16:57 |
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The last PCI only machine I saw was of around the 2003 era.
Never heard of AGM half-height, presumably AGP. AGP cards are pretty hard to find these days too, especially half-height ones.
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Moderator
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31. March 2010 @ 17:03 |
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Yeah, that's what i thought. Thanks for the help guys, any more ideas keep me in mind, i'm such a graphics card nub; i'll have the machine on Friday afternoon so i can at least build it with a temporary graphics card until i figure out which one it needs for the blessed Sims game :p
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules *** |
AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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31. March 2010 @ 17:07 |
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Be thankful The Sims 3 isn't one of today's more demanding games :D
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Moderator
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2. April 2010 @ 20:34 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
PCI is useless for graphics cards. Nothing you can buy on the PCI bus will run The Sims 3, sadly.
I've got the machine, it's a small form factor HP Compaq d530, basically it's a P4 3.0, with a AGP half height graphics slot, cards for which i think are as rare as hen's teeth but it does have a spare standard sized PCI slot (i've used the other standard PCI slot for a wifi card). So... i'm now in need of ideas of a PCI graphics card. It has to be 128MB or above, and pixel shader 2.0.
edit- no need, i googled briefly and plumped for a simple Nvidia 5200 FX PCI card as it's sufficient for the Sims3. All sorted now :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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2. April 2010 @ 20:37 |
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The FX5200 is going to be horrific in The Sims 3. Feel free to try it but the HD4650 is at least 30 times as powerful.
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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2. April 2010 @ 22:05 |
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After reseating my cpu temps are 2C higher on every core (almost exactly). So considering that there's still a 8C gap between two cores should I get a cpu (return this one)? I've never seen a quad core whose core temps had such a large difference between them.
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. April 2010 @ 00:12 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
The FX5200 is going to be horrific in The Sims 3. Feel free to try it but the HD4650 is at least 30 times as powerful.
What about a 9200 AGP?? I has 4 to get rid of.... 3 still NIB. ;)
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2010 @ 07:05 |
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The 9000 series vs FX5000 series was a bit of a slaughtering really. AGP for AGP, the 9200 was twice as fast as the FX5200. Given that the FX5200 PCI was crippled, not just in its interface speed, but also the memory bandwidth and so on, a 9200 AGP is actually going to be more like 3-4x as powerful.
Maw: Core temperature sensors can stick and/or give false readings. This is why I always ignore them when monitoring CPU temps. Always use the main CPU temperature, it's much more accurate.
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Moderator
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3. April 2010 @ 07:14 |
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I just got sick of trying to find something that was future proof enough; if the 5200 is too laggy i'll get something better, then sell the 5200 and that pesky 4650 that i bought the other day. I don't think i'm alone in finding the graphics card naming conventions frustrating to say the least, it's no wonder i stick to onboard video
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2010 @ 07:26 |
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Graphics card naming conventions are relatively simple in basic form. Universally for both companies the first number is the generation, the second number is the range, low=slow, high=fast, and further numbers differentiate between close comparisons. Of course, 2007's fastest card isn't going to be slower than 2008's slowest card because technological progress just isn't that crazy fast, so the difficulty is in knowing how different generations compare with each other. Comparing the same generation to itself usually isn't too hard, but the FX5200 is from the 2003-2004 generation of 'rock bottom' cards, whereas the HD3450 is from the 2007-2008 generation of 'rock bottom cards' and the HD4650 is from the 2008-2009 generation of 'low-midrange cards'. As it turns out the HD4650 compares favourably with the best card of 2005, whereas the HD3450 you'd have to go back to almost the beginning of the decade, and for the FX5200, probably the end of the 90s in the Voodoo era, to see a 'best card' that compares to it.
Ultimately though, if you're content with only onboard video, you don't need a graphics card, since onboard video is so dismally poor that almost any graphics card is hugely faster.
One last point I didn't mention,
you do realise the FX5200 is slower than most modern onboard setups right? The 6100 is almost certainly included in that.
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Moderator
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3. April 2010 @ 07:53 |
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i just picked something that would (allegedly) run Sims3, the machine has onboard video and i have various older PCI cards that would have sufficed for non-Sims use. This is why i was asking you lot for help :p
I have zero use for graphics cards personally, it's only my eldest that needed one for a particular purpose, otherwise i would have merrily steered clear of all the frustration; just trawling thru the net thru 6 trillion peoples' woes on graphics card requirements/troubles for Sims3 has reminded me how glad i was that got out of the graphics card upgrade game many years ago :) :)
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2010 @ 07:54
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2010 @ 08:15 |
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Well, it depends on budget and standards. If you always have to have the best detail and performance possible, graphics upgrades are routine. If you don't really give a damn about how well stuff runs but try and find the minimum card for the job, the next time something you want to play comes out, you need to start again. If you don't really give a damn about how well stuff runs but fork out for a decent card, you don't have to upgrade for quite some time, but it's obviously not always the case that people can afford to futureproof themselves. Same goes for CPUs too, but people tend to upgrade them for other reasons too.
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Moderator
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3. April 2010 @ 08:22 |
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I hear you, but this time around i was constrained by the machine the card was going into, and was happy to suffer the frustration of finding a suitable card, and thus make do with a lesser card as her friend was kind enough to donate the machine (it's in virtually new condition too), i'm still out of work thus not in my usual position of being able to just go out and buy something (much) better. I'll sort her out a better card in time, it'd be wasteful to replace the machine itself though, given it's condition and her uses of it, school and the like.
She's very impressed with the Samsung 940MW though (19"), i'll be connecting her xbox up to it with component leads instead of the standard crappy xbox leads it's currently using (she was using a normal 15" LCD TV before having the PC, the xbox had replaced a standalone DVD player also).
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2010 @ 08:26
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2010 @ 08:29 |
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Agree, it is a bit nutty to spend a fortune on a system for the sims, especially when out of work :S
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Moderator
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3. April 2010 @ 08:35 |
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If she hadn't have been given the d530 i'd have let her have one of my Optiplex 745 SFF's, would've been a tough choice though, one is my main linux & Win7 box and the other is my HTPC (used heavily ie very often, for 720p movies, 720p being my preferred format; the old type xboxes are perfect for 480p stuff but can't cope with 720p - so i keep the Optiplex and an xbox for dual HTPC use, if i'm watching old stuff up to 480p i flick on the xbox, for anything more intensive i flick on the HTPC). Plus the kids use the HTPC a lot so it was better that her friend gave her the PC in the end.
What would probably make a suitable HTPC for me or a Sims3 machine for her would be an Acer Aspire Revo i think, that could be a future upgrade, as some models are quite cheap (and diddy too). Looks like it will ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prvx6PMsZ8U
I'll shut up about Sims3 now, i don't even care for it myself :o
Main PC ~ Intel C2Q Q6600 (G0 Stepping)/Gigabyte GA-EP45-DS3/2GB Crucial Ballistix PC2-8500/Zalman CNPS9700/Antec 900/Corsair HX 620W
Network ~ DD-WRT ~ 2node WDS-WPA2/AES ~ Buffalo WHR-G54S. 3node WPA2/AES ~ WRT54GS v6 (inc. WEP BSSID), WRT54G v2, WRT54G2 v1. *** Forum Rules ***
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 3. April 2010 @ 08:56
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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3. April 2010 @ 15:18 |
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Originally posted by sammorris:
Maw: Core temperature sensors can stick and/or give false readings. This is why I always ignore them when monitoring CPU temps. Always use the main CPU temperature, it's much more accurate.
What should program displays main cpu temp? All the ones I know of besides Everest only give core temp from what I can tell (speedfan, real temp, core temp). Also speedfan's reported cpu temps are 15C below those of real temp and Everest.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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3. April 2010 @ 16:32 |
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Not all motherboards are supported by programs such as Speedfan and Everest. Usually Everest can tell you enough, however.
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AfterDawn Addict
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3. April 2010 @ 21:52 |
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Red_Maw,
I agree with Sam there. Generally you get enough info with Everest to figure it out. Things like the motherboard and CPU temps switched. If the motherboard temp moves up quickly, when you load the CPU, and drop quickly when you stop the load, it's the CPU temp, not the motherboard. That's the most common one! It takes a lot longer to heat up and cool down the motherboard temp than the CPU.
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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4. April 2010 @ 00:19 |
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I agree, that works well when the temps make sense. According to Everest my i7 930 OC'd to 3.34Ghz hits a max temp of 47C (idles at 33C) while the cores are getting to 61C. I can't say that isn't normal, but it's very different from what I'm used to seeing with my E6600.
By the way I wonder if the cpu and MB temps being swapped is a trait of Gigabyte boards, it seems all of us with Gigabyte boards have that issue.
Also noticed that when benchmarking, with the just the benchmark running it's faster to use 4 threads but with other apps open it's faster to use 8 threads.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2010 @ 00:19
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2010 @ 07:32 |
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47C main and 61C load is absolutely fine. Thankfully at 3.34Ghz the heat output of an i7 is almost identical to stock. Were you to overclock to 4Ghz, things would be very different.
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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4. April 2010 @ 15:34 |
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I'll be getting to 4GHz if I can, just taking my time lol (raise it a little every time the system is turned on). Guess I'm just really surprised to see the i7 running cooler than the E6600.
I'm mostly worried about the MB now, the chipset isn't getting any air flow thanks to the huge cpu cooler. At the current rate it won't be surprising to see it in the 60C range come summer.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 4. April 2010 @ 15:37
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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4. April 2010 @ 15:57 |
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On the contrary, large CPU coolers help cool the chipset due to the nearby airflow.
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Red_Maw
Senior Member
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4. April 2010 @ 19:43 |
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This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2010 @ 00:28
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kompuutte
Suspended permanently
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5. April 2010 @ 06:02 |
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spam edited by ddp
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 5. April 2010 @ 12:47
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AfterDawn Addict
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5. April 2010 @ 08:28 |
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Originally posted by Red_Maw:
I'll take a picture when I install the 5850 to show how it's arranged; it certainly doesn't look like there would be any airflow in that area.
---
Any suggestions for case fans? Looking for the one's that will push a lot of air but can be tamed when needed by a fan controller. Currently looking at these two:
http://www.petrastechshop.com/14yalod1cafa1.html
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185060
I wonder if undervolted Delta's would be tolerable lol
Red_Maw,
The Scythe's are good fans, and they are pretty honest with their specs. I would change that 110 cfm fan to one of these.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835185058
A much more reasonable 68 cfm. There's no reason to ever need that powerful a 120mm. If you need that fan to keep your computer cool you have something seriously wrong with your cooling scheme! At 37 dBA, it's also very loud. Remember too that if you are using it as an exhaust fan, you have to have enough intake airflow to balance that fan's output airflow. Otherwise it runs hotter because of high negative case pressure. I'm going to increase my intake air by 15 cfm, by moving a 53 cfm Silverstone fan from the rear, to the front as an intake. The fan I just linked you is going in the rear, as an exhaust. Both fans are about 15-17 cfm higher than the fans they are replacing, so the balance of the case airflow stays about the same. A lowering of the side 80mm Silverstone exhaust fan to about 800 rpm should be just about right!
I use airflow characteristics in my work, so I just apply the basics to case ventilation. I have to manage 3.5 to 4.5 cfm airflow through a space less than 1/100th of a cubic inch in order to keep things running smoothly, while seeing that the turbine turns at over 400,000 rpm, at less than 70dBA, and has enough torque to cut the tooth!. All of this, just so the Dentist can drill your teeth! LOL!! Case ventilation is just a hobby, but it's getting to be more than that as they keep cramming more stuff on the motherboards. video cards are getting more powerful and running hotter, and more and more systems have two or more video cards in them, or at least Hybrid CrossFire. Lots of heat you have to work at removing. Keeps me on my toes! LOL!!
Best Regards,
Russ
GigaByte 990FXA-UD5 - AMD FX-8320 @4.0GHz @1.312v - Corsair H-60 liquid CPU Cooler - 4x4 GB GSkill RipJaws DDR3/1866 Cas8, 8-9-9-24 - Corsair 400-R Case - OCZ FATAL1TY 550 watt Modular PSU - Intel 330 120GB SATA III SSD - WD Black 500GB SATA III - WD black 1 TB Sata III - WD Black 500GB SATA II - 2 Asus DRW-24B1ST DVD-Burner - Sony 420W 5.1 PL-II Suround Sound - GigaByte GTX550/1GB 970 Mhz Video - Asus VE247H 23.6" HDMI 1080p Monitor
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