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Which Transcoding Tools Produce The Best Picture Quality.
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Dr_John
Newbie
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5. August 2004 @ 05:36 |
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Problem fixed...thank you
Another question, albeit a silly one, the end result is 3 folders (AUDIO_TS, VIDEO_TS, & D2VAVS) in my working directory. What exactly needs to be burned onto a blank DVD and is it already compressed to fit onto a DVD-5? Also what if I want to just burn the movie to save on the compression?
Thanks again
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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5. August 2004 @ 05:43 |
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Just burn the AUDIO_TS and VIDEO_TS folders. The D2VAVS folder is all the project files for encoding. If you want to make a movie only backup, just rip with Shrink and Re-author. Then use Shrink's output as DVD-RB's source. It's not technically supported for DVD-RB since it's possible that any pre-processing will create problems, but I use DVD Shrink at some point on almost every backup I make with DVD-RB and have never had a problem.
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Dr_John
Newbie
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5. August 2004 @ 06:48 |
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Thanks, I'll give it a try when I get home...
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Dr_John
Newbie
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5. August 2004 @ 21:05 |
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Burn process went well, a few questions:
1. What does it take to get rid of the "Cinema Craft Encoder" logo on the bottom right of the movie?
2. If I am doing a "movie only" copy using Shrink, am I losing quality?
3. Even if there is no compression?
4. Is there a way for DVD-RB to do the movie only?
5. If not, am I going to get better quality using shrink at 90 to 100% or DVD-RB w/ 50% compression
6. You had said in you last post:
If you want to make a movie only backup, just rip with Shrink and Re-author. Then use Shrink's output as DVD-RB's source.
I'm not able to figure out how to set Shrink's output to the DVD-RB's source
Thank you
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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6. August 2004 @ 05:25 |
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1 - You need to use a full version
2 & 3 - You shouldn't be losing quality as long as you're not compressing. Any time you compress (at least with movies that were transferred/encoded correctly to begin with) you lose at least a little quality. I've actually done some testing with a tool that just compares the frames objectively and there shouldn't be any difference if you don't use any compression with Shrink.
4 - I wasn't clear enough about this before so I'll try to do a better job this time. Do a movie only backup with Shrink, making sure to just write the files and not burn them. Then you can use the directory you used for DVD Shrink's output as the Source directory for DVD-RB.
5 - I don't use Shrink to compress movies so I can't really answer it. Hopefully somebody else can help there.
6 - See #4
Hope this helps.
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brobear
Suspended permanently
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6. August 2004 @ 07:07 |
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5 is a rather strange question. What appears to be asked is if a 10% compression load on Shrink will give beter quality than a 50% load on CCE? Which would be irrelevant as whatever the compression for a movie on one program will be the same on the other. You are dealing with compression to a target size. Both programs have to compress the same amount to get the movie files to fit the target disc.
Sort of like asking if a 60 minute flick with Shrink would look better than Ben Hur on RB.
But, to answer your question. A 10% compression load is neglible. The quality change with Shrink at 10% would be unchanged to the naked eye. RB/CCE, if done properly gives an excellent picture even at 50%. So, the 50% level with RB/CCE is comparable to Shrink at 10%.
The true comparison would be both Shrink and RB/CCE at 50% compression load. There is no comparison, RB/CCE would win hands down.
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Dr_John
Newbie
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7. August 2004 @ 22:13 |
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Thanks for the input, gentlemen.
I have read up to page 15 of this thread and it has quite a bit of very useful info from members who are obviously educated on the subject and qualified to have an opinion.
Given the title of this thread and with it beingng 25 pages long, I would seem to me that it would be helpful for new people seeking A summary of the bottome line (in a variety of different scenarios) to the question Which Trasncoding Tools Produce The Best Picture Quality...(Please forgive if this was addressed somewhere between pages 15 and 24)
Summary questions:
With respect to (in order or priority)
picture quality
processing time ie, if picture quality difference is neglegible put processing time is greatly reduced, time wins
cost
which software is best when burning at...
1. 0 - 10% compression
2. 10 - 25% compression
3. 25 - 50% compression
Vurbal, Sophocles, Brobear, BigO, Doc409...your opinions here would be greatly appreciated
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Senior Member
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7. August 2004 @ 22:47 |
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I have two "types" of movies I back up. Movies I watch, and movies my kids watch. For my movies, I use RB-CCE when any compression at all is required. For the kids movies, I like to run them through DVD2One. IMO, DVD2One and Shrink 3.2 are similar in quality for most compression ratios, but Shrink has to run in deep analysis for 2-1/2 hours to get what DVD2One gets in 30 minutes.
Also, I might start giving the kids movies the royal RB-CCE treatment, as I've just learned about Rebuilder's batch mode. This promises to reduce a lot of the hands-on time.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 7. August 2004 @ 22:49
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brobear
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8. August 2004 @ 02:03 |
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I use a variety of programs, but I'll mention my favorites. I have 2 I use for categories 1 and 2. InterVideo's DVDCopy2 is a superior program for new movies with the discs in good condition. Note new movies and good condition. This transcoder is not forgiving of errors found in older movies and where a film is copied to DVD, it exaggerates some of the flaws. It doesn't work well with a lot of scratches either. That problem can often be solved with a disc buffer. For the older movies, I use Recode2 from Nero. The picture quality is still good and the flaws aren't as prominent.
When compression starts going over 20% you are better off with RB/CCE. If I knew how to set up the filters properly, the RB/CCE might be better for my older movies of lower compression. You see, I,m still learning.
One thing you should learn is that programs have strengths and limitations. The DVDCopy2 is one of the fastest high quality transcoders on the market. However it is limited to quality products to copy. RB/CCE is difficult to beat and shines at high compression where other programs fall apart. There you can't help but win. But at compression levels 20% and less you pay dearly in time with RB/CCE when you could have done a good job with a much faster transcoder.
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64026402
Senior Member
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8. August 2004 @ 05:10 |
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Brobear,
With the information and help available right now the CCE/Rebuilder encode is pretty simple for me.
I pop in the movie. Open rebuilder and if no warnings pop up I hit transcode. The settings and paths stay the same for me.
2hrs later or in the morning I just burn the DVD and I'm done.
I understand the extra time and cost of CCE might put some people off but its nice not to have to worry about compression atifacts and degradation.
It's easy enough that I use it on any compressed movies.
Donald
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brobear
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8. August 2004 @ 07:48 |
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64026402
I'm not saying RB/CCE isn't good for recording at all levels. And if one chooses to use it for everything, I'd agree they'd get good video backups. However, there are several transcoders that do good work and show no visible degradation up to about 20% compression. For those tasks there is no problem with using the faster transcoders. There are no artifacts and compression degradation at the lower levels. In other words, why waste the time if there isn't a noticable quality difference.
With all the help and the guides, you are correct that it isn't difficult to setup and record with RB/CCE. However, if one wants to use filters to enhance the quality of older movies, that takes some knowledge of how to set it up. There is mention of it in the advanced guide, which I browsed through. It was advanced and I have yet to get into using filters. I guess that is a little off topic. Just pointing out that RB/CCE has advanced capabilities not even thought of in the regular transcoder programs.
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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8. August 2004 @ 10:47 |
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Quote:
which software is best when burning at...
I don't have a single backup I've compressed with anything besides CCE so I'm probably not the person to help you with this. I've done a couple backups with other programs for testing purposes (which I threw away afterwards), but until I learned how to use CCE I never compressed any movie. Just understand that quality is all that matters to me. The backups for my Star Trek DVDs take over 4 hours each to encode (even though they're already on DVD-5) because I use DVD-RB so I can use AviSynth to filter out some of the crap from the old film.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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8. August 2004 @ 11:05 |
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I only use another transcoder as a last resort but otherwise I use DVD-RB/CCE almost exclusively. Even though it takes about 3 hours to process, with the 1 click mode and batch processing it is actually more convenient. With the standard 1 click transcoder you have to begin each process individually, now I rip my movies and leave them until bedtime and then batch process them. They are done by morning and then I burn them when I get home from a day of teaching. I burn at 8X because I?ve tested several of my movies using the Plextor PI/PO test and I?m getting 0 PO errors so why wait for 4X. At 8X it takes only about 7 ½ minutes to complete each burn.
I?m still trying to get brobear to come on board.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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64026402
Senior Member
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8. August 2004 @ 12:31 |
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Hey Vurbal,
Are you big on Star Trek or are these someone else in the family.
I like Star Trek but there's not many around me that share my interest.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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8. August 2004 @ 12:48 |
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64026402
I'm a major Star Trek fan. I managed to record every episode of the original series on Beta and then edited out the commercials and transferred them to another tape for archiving. Now I don?t use them because you can get it all on DVD. I?m also a Babylon 5 fan.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. August 2004 @ 12:50
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jdobbs
Senior Member
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8. August 2004 @ 15:19 |
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I like the original series... but I'm especially partial to Next Generation. I bought the entire set (all seasons) on DVD. It's great watching them at a quality level I could never get OTA.
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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8. August 2004 @ 15:28 |
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64026402/Vurbal
This Star Trek thing could be a thread under General discussion's, and we could still tie it to DVD-RB/CCE Basic backups, we might even pickup a few converts. What is even better is it could be a place where we can get off topic and chill.
Hm!
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. |
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64026402
Senior Member
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8. August 2004 @ 16:09 |
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I have learned to like all the Star Treks so far.
My favorite is still the original.
As money permits I'll collect anything that comes out on DVD. If a new thread starts I'll be there. I haven't backed up any yet. I'm still working my way through the movies.
Donald
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AfterDawn Addict
1 product review
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8. August 2004 @ 16:17 |
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64026402
You could start it, it's your idea overall, you know we will all come.
" Please Read!!! Post your questions only in This Thread or they will go unanswered:
Help with development of BD RB: Donations at: http://www.jdobbs.com/. This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. August 2004 @ 16:59
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64026402
Senior Member
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8. August 2004 @ 17:24 |
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Donald
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Dr_John
Newbie
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8. August 2004 @ 21:19 |
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Quote:
With the standard 1 click transcoder you have to begin each process individually, now I rip my movies and leave them until bedtime and then batch process them.
I want to make sure I understand correctly...you spend the day ripping several DVD's w/ Decrypter and then set up DVD-RB to batch process all of them while you sleep? If I've understood correctly, how do you set up this batch process?
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Dr_John
Newbie
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8. August 2004 @ 21:23 |
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A couple of other questions:
1. What is the difference between DTS and ACS w/ regard to audio files?
2. In terms of quality, if I am watching a DVD on a high end home theater system, big plasma screen...the works, will I be able to see the difference between the original and a backup using the DVD-RB/CCE method?
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Staff Member
2 product reviews
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8. August 2004 @ 21:53 |
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1. DTS isn't as compressed, has a higher bitrate, is generally considered to be superior (some people disagree with this point), and takes up more space. If you don't have a DTS capable receiver you won't be able to hear anything from a DTS track. If your disc only has a DTS track it won't be standards compliant (this requires AC3 or LPCM for NTSC / AC3, LPCM, or MPA for PAL). You shouldn't ever find a disc with a DTS track as the default audio stream, although DVD Shrink can make it the default.
2. That's hard to say. If you use a lot of compression, probably. If you don't use a lot of compression - maybe. Bigger/higher quality screens will certainly make flaws easier to find, but keep in mind that if your display has a higher resolution than a normal TV it's already upsampling to fill the screen so it may not be as easy to spot as you might think.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 8. August 2004 @ 21:53
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Dr_John
Newbie
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9. August 2004 @ 04:30 |
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I see...
What is the story regarding "batch processing"? I assume it's in your advanced guide...which I haven't made it thru yet (unable to load all the software; it appears Doom9's forum is down)
Also, is it advisable to decrypt one disc while rebuilding another?
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Senior Member
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9. August 2004 @ 07:01 |
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is it advisable to decrypt one disc while rebuilding another?
The CPU runs at a constant 100% during encode, so overall system perfomance will drop, and you might even get a freeze. The safe advice while doing any encodoing or burning with any program is to leave the computer alone. This is what makes batch processing such a nice feature, because you can schedule it to run while you sleep, go to work, etc.
Batch processing is an option/feature on RB's File pull-down menu. You can load a sequence of jobs to encode. There are some instructions on this thread: http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/6/97052#524935
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 9. August 2004 @ 07:08
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