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Neph's POLITE Gun Debate
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Auslander
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14. April 2007 @ 13:12 |
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as to the south/southwest, all i have to say is look where the president comes from. the prime factor in deciding where i will live is the overall amount of social stupidity. our economy is going to hell, our school system gets worse every single day, we're lawsuit-happy, obese, self-righteous, hypocritical, and condescending as an entire nation. *especially* in the "free-er" areas, we don't give a damn about the environment, the good of the common man, or global-well being, just that we're "top dog".
there's not much more i can take, to be honest. i love the values this country stands for (which makes me a patriot), but i'm certainly not fanatically devoted to this country (unlike nationalists i know). i'm going to stop participating in this part of the discussion, though, as it's headed in the political direction and that won't make any AD mod or admin happy.
*edit*
for a socety to work with the immense amount of personal freedoms that we are given as citizens, *everyone* has to have a social conscience and general morality. that's dying here, and has been for years as our nation has declined. unless people wake the hell up, we'll do ourselves in. we continually lower standards and practice political correctness, wanting everyone to feel successful and happy, yet turn around and demand that for them to feel happy, they have to buy into a materialistic world of fads, brainwash marketing, sexual overdose, and thoughtless living. our strategies, as a society, are self-destructive enough to cause the collapse of a nation of hundreds of millions of supposedly well-educated and humane people. we've had our immense success, we've run the world, we've become rich beyond normal comprehension, and now we fill our lives with abuses of all natures and leave our will to continue to work to keep our dreams live behind. our own Romulus Augustulus, if not already in power, will soon come. we are but another rome, yet no one wants to admit it.
*re-edit*
neph, i'm sorry for that little speech and dragging your thread further off topic.
what do you guys think of the franchi spas-12?
i'd like to get my hands on one.
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. April 2007 @ 13:40
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Senior Member
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14. April 2007 @ 15:57 |
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All I'm saying is it could be worse. And if you're fond of freedom and want to be able to make a difference as an individual, you are better off here than anywhere else. And I'll leave it at that.
The SPAS-12 is a good gun, and very comfortable and even rather ergonomic compared to most shotguns. It's really how a shotgun ought to be. But it's also considered a Destructive Device, courtesy of the last president. If you can have one where you live at all, you would have to jump through all the same paperwork and Federal and State restrictions you would have to with a machine gun, even though the SPAS-12 is functionally no different than, say, a Remington 1187.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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Auslander
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14. April 2007 @ 16:08 |
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one day, i hope that the rules against political debate on here are repealed, as i think we've shown a civil discussion is possible. a few bad members ruin it all, though. :-(
after doing a little reading, the only downside of the SPAS that i've found is that it's a bit complicated, heavy, and expensive. but i'd trade all that for excellent service in a heartbeat.
on a side note, the first time i saw that shotgun was in the movie Terminator. it sure was beautiful. ^.~
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Moderator
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14. April 2007 @ 23:01 |
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As good as the SPAS-12 is I like the Benelli M4 much better :)
A good shotgun is a must for any well rounded collection. As for pumps, I'm partial to the Winchester 1300 Defender model myself. They've a real slick action and are a bit lighter than the excellent Remington 87.
As for moving, try finding our level of freedom to own firearms anywhere else in the world - you won't. Not anywhere in Europe, not Canada, not Australia, not anywhere. I'm sure you can have all the guns you want in somewhere like Mogadishu but are things so bad here that Somalia looks like a great place to live? It's easy to get lost in pessimism about the state of affairs here but sit and watch the episode of National Geographic Explorer they did in North Korea and you'll probably change your mind.
I'm not trying to pick on you in particular Aus but I hear too many younger folk simply saying "F*ck this country, it's going down the toilet so I'm moving". Attitudes like that really disturb me. To me that attitude is akin to facing all the people that have given their lives for our country and telling them "Thanks for dying and all but hey, I'm apathetic and truly don't appreciate the fact that you gave your life to protect the amazing country I was born in. I've personally never known war, hunger or oppression thanks to you but you know, I just don't like some of the idiots in government even though I have the power to change things (thanks again to you) I'm going to just say 'fuck it' and move to Germany where many of you died fighting against the war, hunger and oppression I've never known."
Patriots are the ones who knuckle down and fight for what they believe our country should be. I was born an American and I will die an American IN America and I don't care who thinks what about me or my beloved country.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33 This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 14. April 2007 @ 23:04
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aabbccdd
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14. April 2007 @ 23:36 |
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Quote:
I'm not trying to pick on you in particular Aus but I hear too many younger folk simply saying "F*ck this country, it's going down the toilet so I'm moving". Attitudes like that really disturb me. To me that attitude is akin to facing all the people that have given their lives for our country and telling them "Thanks for dying and all but hey, I'm apathetic and truly don't appreciate the fact that you gave your life to protect the amazing country I was born in.plus its a slap in there face I've personally never known war, hunger or oppression thanks to you but you know, I just don't like some of the idiots in government even though I have the power to change things (thanks again to you) I'm going to just say 'fuck it' and move to Germany where many of you died fighting against the war, hunger and oppression I've never known."
Patriots are the ones who knuckle down and fight for what they believe our country should be. I was born an American and I will die an American IN America and I don't care who thinks what about me or my beloved country.
I AGREE 110% Nephilim
AND AS FOR THE POLITICS we don't need them in here for lots of reasons. matter of fact to many people have been posting a political response in lots of threads so i am going to start reporting more of them. since we all should follow the rules not just a few of us.
BTW i think the SPAS-12 is pretty badass i use it when playing Ghost Recon alot lol
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Member
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17. April 2007 @ 05:59 |
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Watch out for the backlash from the shootings at VT, just because some idiot was pi$$ed at his girlfriend. The anti-gun fools are going to run with this for all it's worth. We will loose all our rights, not just gun rights, if this keeps up. My thoughts and prayers with all the people at VT.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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17. April 2007 @ 06:31 |
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Originally posted by Nephilim:
As good as the SPAS-12 is I like the Benelli M4 much better :)
A good shotgun is a must for any well rounded collection. As for pumps, I'm partial to the Winchester 1300 Defender model myself. They've a real slick action and are a bit lighter than the excellent Remington 87.
As for moving, try finding our level of freedom to own firearms anywhere else in the world - you won't. Not anywhere in Europe, not Canada, not Australia, not anywhere. I'm sure you can have all the guns you want in somewhere like Mogadishu but are things so bad here that Somalia looks like a great place to live? It's easy to get lost in pessimism about the state of affairs here but sit and watch the episode of National Geographic Explorer they did in North Korea and you'll probably change your mind.
I'm not trying to pick on you in particular Aus but I hear too many younger folk simply saying "F*ck this country, it's going down the toilet so I'm moving". Attitudes like that really disturb me. To me that attitude is akin to facing all the people that have given their lives for our country and telling them "Thanks for dying and all but hey, I'm apathetic and truly don't appreciate the fact that you gave your life to protect the amazing country I was born in. I've personally never known war, hunger or oppression thanks to you but you know, I just don't like some of the idiots in government even though I have the power to change things (thanks again to you) I'm going to just say 'fuck it' and move to Germany where many of you died fighting against the war, hunger and oppression I've never known."
Patriots are the ones who knuckle down and fight for what they believe our country should be. I was born an American and I will die an American IN America and I don't care who thinks what about me or my beloved country.
=====================================================================
so thats why poli talk is baned! LOL
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Auslander
wonderfuly said!
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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Senior Member
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17. April 2007 @ 06:32 |
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Firearms , Cars , Mack Trucks are Just Objects ! They Do not Kill In and Of themselves ! The Person Involved with the Gun , Car or Mack Truck is the Problem ! And more Gun Laws Are Not going to Change That ! The Criminals will Get Guns Even if The LAW ABIDING citizens Are Prohibited From owning them ! IF Illegal Aliens , CoCaine , Weed & Crystal MetH !!!! Can be Smuggled Wholesale into this Country You Don't ThinK they Can Smuggle Guns Too ? Laws are Like Padlocks ! They Just Keep The Honest People Honest ! The Dishonest people will Get a Hacksaw Or Some BoltCutters and get what they want anyway ! Also More people Are Killed By Cigarettes & and Medical MalpRactice every year Than By Guns !!!!!!!!! Maybe We Should Register Cigarettes ? And Doctors ? The Whole Gun issue Boils Down To If You Don't Like Guns Or are Scared Of Them Then Either Don't own Them !Or Marry a Cop! If You are Pro 2ncd amendmant & are Not Breaking any laws Then More power too you !
FeetZ Up ! Head Down !
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Member
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17. April 2007 @ 06:48 |
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BIGTOXY69, you forgot the baseball bat. A club is the most brutal weapon yet.
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AfterDawn Addict
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17. April 2007 @ 11:27 |
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First they have to find all the guns to actually get rid of them. Never gonna happen. They can't even find half the killers using them as it is! If you go to New Orleans without a gun, you are none too smart. It's a country unto itself, Third World.
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gerry1
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17. April 2007 @ 11:32 |
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Methinks doctors are registered though ;)
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aabbccdd
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17. April 2007 @ 23:13 |
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FACTS TO PONDER:
(A) The number of physicians in the U.S. is 700,000
(B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians per year are 120,000
(C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health Human Services.
SO >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now think about this:
Guns:
(A) The number of gun owners in the U.S. is 80,000,000.
(Yes, that's 80 million..)
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(B) The number of accidental gun deaths per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
(C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is
.000188
Statistics courtesy of the FBI
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
So, statistically, doctors are approximately
9,000 times more deadly than gun owners.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Now Let's Remember, "Guns don't kill people, DOCTORS do."
FACT: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN,
BUT
ALMOST EVERYONE HAS AT LEAST ONE DOCTOR.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>;>>>>>>>>>>
Please alert your friends to this alarming threat.
We must ban doctors before this gets completely out of hand!!!!!
Out of concern for the public at large, We have withheld the statistics on
lawyers for fear the shock would cause people to panic and seek medical
attention!
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Senior Member
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17. April 2007 @ 23:40 |
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Quote:
Methinks doctors are registered though ;)
So are guns, but nobody is trying to ban doctors.
-Do you believe you own your computer and shouldn't be told what you can run and do? Then say *NO* to Microsoft Vista!
-Since half the questions here involve media problems, here ya go: Only use Verbatim or Taiyo-Yuden discs (get your TYs from Rima.com, not Supermediastore or meritline). Forget the rest, no matter what "brand" they sell under. Always burn at 4x speed regardless of the speed rating of this discs or your drive. If you have burn problems with these then you have to update your drive's firmware. For double-layer discs, only use Verbatim DVD+R DL and burn them at 2.4x speed.
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aabbccdd
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18. April 2007 @ 00:15 |
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so i made my point lol ^^^^^^^^
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Senior Member
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18. April 2007 @ 00:37 |
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wow, heavy thread, i yike it.
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Moderator
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18. April 2007 @ 00:56 |
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I figured this thread would liven up soon enough :P
What I find interesting is that as far as I can see none of the stricter gun regulations that have been proposed would've prevented Cho Seung-Hui from purchasing a gun. He was a legal citizen with a clean record, was able to pass the background check and had bought the gun weeks before the shooting.
I've heard proposals for national gun registration and picture ID's (Hillary) for gun owners. I'm not sure how exactly either of those would've prevented Cho Seung-Hui from commiting the mass murder. Unless the folks shouting for these regulations can quantify how their proposals would've prevented his rampage I can only conclude that they're shamelessly using this sick tragedy to push their agendas and shore up votes.
I mean seriously, short of the completely unrealistic idea of banning all guns what can we really do to prevent a guy like Cho Seung-Hui from doing what he did? Him and all the other mass murderers are anomolies that can't be accurately predicted. So is trampling the Constitutional rights of millions to make us feel better over a handful of poor souls caught in the wrong place at the wrong time a fair trade? I don't think so.
Here's a great example of what limiting people's ability to arm themselves can do,
Everyone remember the mass murder at Luby's in Kileen Texas years back? The guy could've been stopped by a lady that was trained and licensed to carry a concealed weapon except for the fact that Luby's, in the interest of its patron,s safety, saw fit to not allow firearms in their establishment. Because firearms weren't allowed in the restaurant the gal left her gun in her vehicle and consequently had to watch all those folks get killed knowing she could've easily popped the son of a bitch if she'd had her gun with her. When it comes to psychos looking to waste a bunch of people they see gun-free zones like schools and restaurants as a target rich environment full of defenseless people.
My killer sig came courtesy of bb "El Jefe" mayo.
The Forum Rules You Agreed To! http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/2487
"And there we saw the giants, and we were in our own sight as grasshoppers, and so we were in their sight" - Numbers 13:33
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 18. April 2007 @ 00:59
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PacMan777
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18. April 2007 @ 01:49 |
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Nephilim
The news said Cho was a resident alien. I didn't think aliens were allowed to buy firearms. If that's the case, then it's one more law the young man broke on his way to becoming a mass murderer.
I believe, as do many others, that new laws aren't needed as much as enforcement of the laws we already have. I'm amazed a lot of anti-gunners are still asking for laws to be enacted that are already enacted. Most haven't taken the time to learn what the current laws are.
The reason this thread is warming up is because anti gun protestors are taking every tragedy that has a firearm connection as a chance to rake legal gun ownership and owners over the coals. The tragic incident at VA Tech is just another incendiary incident for these hate mongers to use. And hate they do. They have absolutely no respect for law abiding gun owners or the constitution of our country. If you happen to be a supporter of legal gun ownership, fool is one of the kinder things you're apt to be called.
I'll not go into a rant now. Most of you've heard those before. I'm pro legal gun ownership and I've heard no sane arguments from the anti-gun movement to change my mind.
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18. April 2007 @ 04:02 |
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@PacMan
From what I've heard, he had purchased the guns legally. He had a green card. VA laws on guns are very relaxed. Maybe we need a federal law that says you need to be citizen and read English to buy a gun.
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PacMan777
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18. April 2007 @ 05:12 |
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Some states give lip service to gun laws while others enact laws banning guns. I think there should be one set of Federal laws that all states have to adhere to. I believe in the right to carry arms, but I also believe the individual should be responsible to prepare and prove competence to do so. All gun owners should have to go through a thorough background search and be licensed, much like the CCW training and license.
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Auslander
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18. April 2007 @ 05:25 |
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Originally posted by PacMan777:
...I believe in the right to carry arms, but I also believe the individual should be responsible to prepare and prove competence to do so....
ah, but you can't have it both ways. a right is something *everyone* has; privileges are the only things that can be taken away. a privilege would be something you have to prove competence for, like driving. but then again, look at the people on the road.
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PacMan777
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18. April 2007 @ 05:35 |
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It's illegal for convicted felons to have firearms. That's a right that can be taken away. I don't think a mental case who has no idea of what a gun can do should own one. In fact it's illegal to purchase a firearm if a person has psychological problems. Guilty of spouse abuse, no guns. There's already all kinds of limitations to the right to bear arms. There's even limits to the type of arms. I'm not saying make gun ownership a privilege that can be taken away. What I'm saying is that one should be required to be of sound mind and have some training before exercising their right.
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Masterfit
Newbie
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18. April 2007 @ 08:43 |
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The writers of the U.S. Constitution understood the necessity for an armed citizenry. When only the government has guns, everyone else is just a slave. Gun-banners who would turn everyone?s life and liberty over to the care of an all-powerful, central government, don?t understand and don?t agree with that.? ?Alan Caruba ++ ?All of these massacres, these terrorist attacks, have genuine possibilities for being stopped dead in their tracks if they encounter a well-armed, well-trained, educated public vigilant to defend their freedoms...[T]he proper public response is to promote the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution. We can stop this evil if we choose to. Let?s roll.? ?Andrew Longman ++ ?Why is the Virginia Tech murderer always referred to as the ?gunman? and not the ?murderer?? Had he stabbed a dozen students to death, would he be the ?knifeman??? ?Dennis Prager
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18. April 2007 @ 08:48 |
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i would read this>>>>>>>>
Gun lobby prepares for battle over rights
By Andrew Ward
Published: April 17 2007 18:40 | Last updated: April 17 2007 18:40
Last Saturday, Wayne LaPierre, executive vice-president of the National Rifle Association, urged delegates at the group?s annual convention in St Louis, Missouri, to prepare for ?the storm that lies ahead?.
Opinion polls consistently show that a majority of Americans would support stricter controls ? a Gallup poll last year found 56 per cent in favour ? and the proportion is likely to increase following this week?s tragedy.
link
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3d770d7a-ed08-11db-9520-000b5df10621.html
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AfterDawn Addict
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18. April 2007 @ 08:50 |
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Originally posted by ireland:
i would read this>>>>>>>>
Gun lobby prepares for battle over rights
By Andrew Ward
Published: April 17 2007 18:40 | Last updated: April 17 2007 18:40
Last Saturday, Wayne LaPierre, executive vice-president of the National Rifle Association, urged delegates at the group?s annual convention in St Louis, Missouri, to prepare for ?the storm that lies ahead?.
Opinion polls consistently show that a majority of Americans would support stricter controls ? a Gallup poll last year found 56 per cent in favour ? and the proportion is likely to increase following this week?s tragedy.
link
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/3d770d7a-ed08-11...21.html[/quote]
I don't like guns but even I get that crazy people will always do sht and a scapegoat is found blamed and baned soon thoughts will be next after they ban everythign else.
Copyright infringement is nothing more than civil disobedience to a bad set of laws. Lets renegotiate them.
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aabbccdd
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18. April 2007 @ 09:43 |
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what gets me is people like Rosie O' Donald yelling about gun control when her body guards are packing heat its insane.
and do you think the Rosie o' Donald's of the world and the far left care about your personal safety NO they don't they just want to push there agenda
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