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Official docTY Taiyo Yuden thread
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2006 @ 10:22 |
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Moderator
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26. July 2006 @ 10:50 |
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@frbernard
Update your firmware to the latest one Dell 103C from 5/2006. May help your drive with the discs:
http://support.dell.com/support/downloads/download.aspx?c=us&cs=1...
I woulld still take it down a notch in burn speed. Looks like this a a laptop and imho the slimline burners are not as sturdy - can be a little more problemtic.
@cincyrob
That's all I use that printer for too -rarely anything else. 150 -200 hmmm I may get more out of it. Can depend on some of the settings for the color options & density he may use in the software to print.
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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26. July 2006 @ 15:19 |
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well i didn final destination3 this morning(on mij sony16x DVD-R) but never checked it out....ive been looking at other forums and it seems people are haven problems with this one? not being able to get the sceens where you choose who gets it..... but that dont have anything to do with media... just hope i got a good burn hate to have wasted a good TY....
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Senior Member
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26. July 2006 @ 16:10 |
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Quote:
does the epson use aot of ink printing to the disc? i know there is like 5 or 6 ink cartridges in there isnt there? my friend says he gets about 150-200 disc with his , but thats all he uses it for. disc only even at 150-200 that is still a wide range there
That estimate is about right. Expect around 150 before you have to replace your first color and 200 when you finally replace the sixth. I am using the Ridisc inks from meritline.com now (got 6 sets of 6 for $35.98 shipped a few months ago), and they are as good as the ink that i was getting from privateabacus24-7.com before as far as I can tell!
I also just recently purchased an HP 2600n color LaserJet ($299 at Quill.com) for printing covers. I must say I am extremely satisfied and that my arsenal is now TRULY complete! I have Recode2, AnyDVD, CloneDVD2, DVDRebuilder Pro, CCE, Procoder2, and I only burn on TY, Verb, and the occasional Maxell MIJ (mixed results with the Ritek G05 printables in the past- still have 40 of the 50 I caught on sale for $9.99 at NewEgg last December).
I will say without hesitation that this site and the members in this thread are without a doubt some of the most knowledgeable individuals when it comes to ANYTHING related to backing up DVDs, and PCs PERIOD, for that matter!!!!
You are in very capable hands... Good luck!
Dropbox: http://db.tt/p5P9bH1d
System 1: Core2Quad Q6600 O/Ced @ 3.15 GHz, Gigabyte GA EP35 DS4 mobo, Zalman 9700, 4GB PC6400 RAM, Sapphire Radeon 2600HD Pro, Samsung 920BW 19" Widescreen LCD, Hauppauge! PVR-350.
System 2: Core2Duo E6400 O/Ced @ 3.2 GHz, Gigabyte GA 965P S3 mobo, Arctic Cooling Freezer 7 Pro, 2GB PC6400 RAM, PNY GeForce 6600, Hyundai B70A 17" LCD.This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 26. July 2006 @ 16:12
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AfterDawn Addict
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26. July 2006 @ 16:39 |
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@teflonmyk
36carts for $36 at meritline is free ink! Will check the canon pixma prices. good heads up.
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phaser1
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. July 2006 @ 10:08 |
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** Playstation 2 Update **
Hello everyone,
It's been a while since I last provided an update with the Playstation 2 use of Taiyo Yuden dvds. I have an addition to that information.
The TYG02's work great with the PS2 Slim-Line system. I've been in the process of reburning copies of games I've already made, putting them on the TYG02's. My batting average with successful playback is 99%. The one percent, which comes to about 2 games, at count, has no more than 2 burps in the audio within the intro movie of a select few games. With that ratio, I can't complain.
However, I just recently modded my daughter's old style PS2 with a flip top lid. Recall that the old style PS2 is the rather larger system to where the disc tray ejects forward. The installation was a success the first go around. Though, the old style PS2 doesn't like the TY dvds. Out of 20 games, I was only able to get 2 games to properly load on her system. To test the system even more, I sent a few copies to a friend of mine to have him test them on his old style PS2, which also has the flip-top lid. He had the same results.
Come to find out, the old style PS2 console with the flip top lid installed does like Maxwell and Memorex -R dvds that allow 4X burns. Doing a 10-1 burn (10 burns on Maxwell - 10 burns on Memorex), each game loaded without any flaws, and first level game plays were also successful without any hitches. Note that both old style PS2 system that were tested, each have a total of 8 screws holding the case intact. There is another breed of old style PS2 consoles that have 10 screws housing the cover. (Note: the additional 2 screws are found on the bottom of the PS2 on the over hang or lipped portion of the unit that doesn't touch the shelf to which the unit sits on. I call that portion the "balcony.") So, my testings done by owners of such systems may find different results. The reason could be (as an educated guess on my part) that the 10 screw version may utilize a different laser eye.
More later,
Phaser1
Yahoo: CJ_Malone
MSN Messenger: PM me to find out.
AOL: Dorashubby
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frbernard
Member
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27. July 2006 @ 12:22 |
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Binkie7: Thanks. I have downloaded the next version and have also slowed my burn speed to 6X, so I will let you know how it goes. I might mention that I burned some of these discs on another burner and also had several with high crc errors. Out of 100 I have had about 40 bad discs.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. July 2006 @ 14:29 |
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@Phaser1 That sounds like something is off. 2 out of 20 TY's booting doesn't sound right, no matter the circumstance. Try cleaning your laser with rubbing alcohol and a Q tip. I have a v.4 PS2 modded with a Matrix Infinity, and I've never had a coaster with TYG02/Yuden000T02, in 300+ burns. Sounds like your laser might be dirty. 20 games isn't a large sample size anyway, your friends games not booting doesn't sway me either. If cleaning your laser doesn't work, try burning at 8x. You don't want to subject your PS2 to long term doses of CMC Mag, that will tax it way too much. If there's a way to get those TY's working, than it's worth the effort. The PS2 uses the same laser in each version, it's that different models have firmware which utilize it differently. That accounts for why certain models need a laser fix (v.9/10, 12). If that doesn't work, try some 8x Verb's, they should work fine. At last resort, don't settle for less than RitekG05. I personally am not a huge fan of G05, but I have friends whom I trust that have 100's of successful backups with it. Even though the Memorex/Maxell is working now, it's a quick fix. Most likely their made in Taiwan, so their anywhere from Ricoh to CMC Mag. If you can get TY's and Verb's working, it's definitely worth a little effort. I think you can with a little work.
74. Q. I turn on my PS2, the disc spins and makes a "clicking" sound. It says "disk read error" in my browser, what do I do?
A. This could be a sign your laser is dirty or scratched. Clean it with a Q-tip and rubbing alcohol if you think it might be dirty, also be sure to check it for scratches. Fat PS2 v.1-11: http://www.neoseeker.com/Articles/Hardware/Guides/ps2diy/ Consult the links listed earlier in this thread for info. This could also be a sign your game is dirty or scratched. You can clean it with rubbing alcohol and a lint free cloth or tissue. Only apply a couple drops of rubbing alcohol on the disc, 4 or so evenly spaced. You may want to use an eye dropper for this. Rub it with a lint free cloth or tissue in a non circular pattern until it's dry. Your other option is to buff out the surface scratches with on the disc with a "Game Doctor." I came across a $20 Memorex cleaning device at Wal-Mart which basically does the same thing. It worked wonders for my scratched Breaker Pro disc. The Game Doctor will set you back around $40. If the scratches are too deep, this won't make any difference. If you get the "clicking" sound with a backup, all these same things apply. Also MAKE SURE that your not using cheap media. Again check the links posted earlier in this FAQ. http://forums.afterdawn.com/thread_view.cfm/1/240341
Good PS2 disc read error article: http://arstechnica.com/articles/paedia/hardware/ps2.ars
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. July 2006 @ 14:31
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phaser1
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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27. July 2006 @ 17:38 |
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My slim-line plays the TYGO2's perfectly. I have close to 400 games in my collection. However, after burning those 20 for my daughter, then defaulting to my own collection, none of those games work on her console but 2 of them. I had already cleaned the laser as well.
Considering that retail games load fine on her old style console, I really didn't see it to be a laser issue whatsoever. Though, for "what ifs" on my behalf, I had cleaned the laser. Even after failures for game loadings from the backup, I would always test anothe retail game to ensure it was still working.
My collection of games are on Verbatims -Rs (4x burns), and now on TYG02s. Verbatims didn't even light up in her console. However, my friend in another state uses nothing but Maxwell and Memorex. So, I gave those a go, and each game booted up perfectly on my daughters machine. I simply recreated the image from my backups and did a reburn using DVD-D.
More later,
Phaser1
Yahoo: CJ_Malone
MSN Messenger: PM me to find out.
AOL: Dorashubby
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27. July 2006 @ 17:44 |
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@frbernard
Let us know how that goes for you. Check the other drives fimrware too and try taking the burn speed down a notch. You may have just got a bad spindle (can't believe I'm even saying that) but hey even the best sometimes can have a bad batch once in a while.
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janrocks
Suspended permanently
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27. July 2006 @ 17:50 |
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Damn ps2's.. It's not the disks, it's shoddy hardware from sony. Stick with disks that work with the particular machine. My close to death ps2 likes cmc-mag.. work that out. I gave up wasting money on quality disks that didn't read on it. The cheapos are 100% but not on anything else. It's the laser intensity setting. Probably too high for good disks.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. July 2006 @ 18:20 |
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@kivory666, Mort81, & all;
Thanks for the advice, all of you. Tokijin you were right "book-typing" was easy, at least for me. I still want to add a BenQ DW1650, you guys have sold me on the quality of the drive. lol. I think the possibility of using the DVD-RB/CCE program(s) is out for me unless I did something wrong. I have an Intel P4 1.5GHz w/ 512 RAM, if I understand the program correctly there is no way that I can utilize it without some serious upgrades. I have been looking at an upgraded computer for a while now but finances forbid it at this time (yeh the wife.....lol). Thanks again and looking forward to the "advice" again.
@all: BTW I found some TY's (Sony DVD+R YUDEN000-T02 hubcode:TG001159) under the Sony brand at CompUSA today and they even matched an add price by Office Depot. 8X media with no Octaganal spacer, but it did say MIJ, got lucky I guess. Burn on and have a good Friday and a Great Weekend!
..........c
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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27. July 2006 @ 18:41 |
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greensman,
DVD-RB will work with your setup. It will just take longer. You can run it at night or while you are at work. You can even set it up to batch process several folders while you sleep. A 6 to 6.5 gb folder takes me about 2 hours. Your setup would probably take about twice as long, maybe a little longer.
Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
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frbernard
Member
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27. July 2006 @ 18:44 |
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BINKIE7: I did as you suggested and have had two bad burns since then. I did contact SMS. They said exactly what you said "that it might just be a bad batch, even TY can have some once in a great while", they told me to send them back and they would refund them. I am not certain what you meant about updating the other firmware.
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. July 2006 @ 20:32 |
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Mort81,
Thanks for the quick response and encouraging words. Is there a forum, thread, or website that would help me utilize this program (DVD-RB) with more success? I ran the program last night and in about 6 hrs it only had "encoded" 15% or so. I don't want to soil the Doc's thread with such drivle even though I will be using TY's to burn the backups. Fortunately for me and unfortunately for you, you are the only one right now with the knowledge and experience I know to ask these questions. Thanks again and please have some patience with a complete Newb in this area.
...........c
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AfterDawn Addict
6 product reviews
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27. July 2006 @ 20:52 |
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Rig #1 Asus Rampage Formula Mobo, Intel Core2Quad Q9450 CPU @ 3.55ghz, 2gb Corsair DDR2 1066 Dominator Ram @ 5-5-5-15, TR Ultra 120 Extreme w/ Scythe 9 blade 110 cfm 120mm Fan HSF, HIS Radeon 512mb HD3850 IceQ TurboX GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, CM Stacker 830 Evo Case, Rig #2 Asus P5W DH Deluxe Mobo, Intel C2D E6600 CPU @ 3.6ghz, 2gb Corsair XMS2 DDR2 800 Ram @ 4-4-4-12-2t, Zalman CNPS9500LED HSF, Sapphire Radeon X850XT PE GPU, Corsair 620HX P/S, Cooler Master Mystique Case, Viewsonic 20.1" Widescreen Digital LCD Monitor, Klipsch Promedia Ultra 5.1 THX Desktop Speakers, http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=348351 http://valid.x86-secret.com/show_oc.php?id=236435 |
AfterDawn Addict
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27. July 2006 @ 20:53 |
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@Phaser1 Dunno, it does sound like you know what your doing. Is your firmware up to date? Maybe your PS2 doesn't like TY's. Or maybe you got a bad batch. Doesn't seem likely since they work on your slim. I'm still convinced there's a way to get them to work, but there are extremely rare circumstances where they won't work. 95% of the time it's user error, though you seem to be doing everything right. What version Swap Magic are you using?
@Jan I have to disagree with you there. Granted I don't have your PS2, and maybe CMC Mag does work on it for whatever reason, but a damaged, dirty laser is more likely. You ever consider it's near death because of CMC Mag? It could just be one of those things. I'm aware of your technical abilities. However, if my PS2 would only run on CMC Mag, I'd toil long into the night until there were no explanations left. Dunno, could just be one of those things. I assure both of you, things like this are extremely rare. I'm assuming you've tried 4x and 8x TY's, Verb's, and there just a no go?
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 27. July 2006 @ 20:53
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AfterDawn Addict
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27. July 2006 @ 21:56 |
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@greensman
no worries about bringing other issues w/ dvd-rb into my thread, i learn more about the details from mort81 all the time when it does pop up here~ :) he's my own "go 2 guy" for that particular application~
@frbernard
binkie tackled your questions right on point, i have been too busy w/ work the last few days to comment/even come onto AD, but i don't want your issues to go unsettled or overlooked~ :) def. sounds like a "bad batch" w/ those TYs from supermediastore, it DOES happen even with Taiyo Yuden...as it does with ANY manufacturer..no way to avoid it~ :) it's good that you are getting a refund from them, that DOES go to show you that supermediastore is good about "defective" merchandise, it's good to know they are there for you AFTER the purchase if something were to arise, as it has in your case...
@cincyrob
nothing wrong w/ that~ :) burn away! it's all about finding YOUR OWN sweet spot/burn speed on your system for those TYG03s you have...as to final destination 3, i picked that up this week too (since my wife enjoyed the first 2, so i figured why not?)...i think people were having problems with the whole "choose ur fate" feature, i actually did the ENTIRE disc using clonedvd2 with BIG TIME COMPRESSION and all the functions/features are intact and very much "working"...as to the quality of it...eh...leaves a lot to be desired, but it does work as it's supposed to~ :) compromises, it's a give and take situation...for me it's just not worth the time to put it thru dvd-rb + procoder2/cce and i didn't wanna use a DVD+R DL disc for this particular movie either, funny how it's not worth $2 to me~ :)
anyways, if you really want me to test ur backups for quality scans and such, i don't mind, but that is your choice to do so~ :) if the playback is good and you see no issues, i guess u could "ballpark" it figuratively speaking and assume it's in the 90s+ quality score~ :) but if u juss need to quench ur curiousity and would like an actual score for your own knowledge, i can do that for you no problem~ :) if that is the route you wanna take, PM me and we can discuss it further...
@all
good info the last few days regarding printers, ink, media, ps2...i like this melting pot of good info from everyone in their own specific/respective fields...it's a good learning experience~ :)
docTY
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2006 @ 02:29 |
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Thanks Doc for understanding. Will try not to take up to much space with silly stuff. LOL.
@Mort81,
DVDShrink normally takes about 30-50 minutes depending on the movie. Snatch takes about 38 minutes, (I've had to back that one many times, I loan it out and never get it back from my friends-aquaintances), good movie if you like British type humor. Since I now have a 160 & a 300 Gig drive I finally just left the ISO for future thievery. LOL. Thanks again Mort81, I will give those places a look after work today.
.........c
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phaser1
Suspended due to non-functional email address
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28. July 2006 @ 03:49 |
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@Tokijin
My PS2 loves the TYG02s (slim-line). It's my daughters old style PS2 that hates them.
I normally don't rebuild my games. Haven't done so since running across Verbatims, and after having read about them in the PS2 section of this forum. When I first started on this forum, I was known as digital9x. It was also in that section I learned of the Taiyo Yuden brand. However, it was this thread that showed me the difference between the different version (02's, 03s, etc).
Typically, they say for low grade dvds, rebuild the game, then burn the final image and/or if the game image is close to 4 gigs in total size, rebuild it. Well, with the Verbatims and TYG02s, I don't rebuild at all. The only modifications I make to my games are patches (DNAS code entries) for online play. Gran Turismo (the newest one) did force me to rebuild it.
I even went as far as rebuilding games to see if that would help the issue on my daughter's PS2. Luckily, I have a 3.6 gigahertz machine, with 1 gig of RAM, so the crunching on that process doesn't take long. However, rebuilding the games didn't do the trick for me on her PS2.
Someone on here earlier mentioned in reply to me, to burn the games at 6x, instead of 4x, and give it a shot on her PS2. I have yet to do that (that's for the Verbatims and Taiyo dvds). Though, it puzzles me how the Maxwells and Memorex brands are just sweet candy to her PS2. Those brands defy all knowledge I've learned on this forum, as far as brands to stick with.
The only two games I have successfully gotten to work on my daughter's PS2 are the Di Vinci Code and Ghost Recon: Advanced Warfighter. I think that was just a luck of the draw, but getting just two games to work on TYG02s, and having burned 18 more and tested well over 50 of my already made games, it was very disappointing. The "daddy" is supposed to solve all problems - hahaha. I even had Kingdom Hearts 2 burned, and that was a let down for her, and seeing it work on mine was teasing her.
Installing the flip-top lids, I'll do all day for any PS2 console. However, tweaking the laser is something I'm not sure even I can master that one. I've been the typical "nerd" on the block since I was 15, and now still one at the age 36. I'd have to leave the laser tweaks to a professional in that area. BTW, the both of us are using Swap Magic 3.6. I've near about worn mine out, because I've had it over a year, and you know that slim-lines grab the discs in the center hole, unlike the old style PS2s that have a balancer under the lid. Thus, I got creative, and glued one of those dvd spacers to the top of my SM dvd boot disc, which has kept it from cracking more in the center. Gotta save that money - hahaha. Though the Swap Magic two disc bundle is dirt cheap.
That reminds me, I burned the game, Gradius V. It required just a CDR. It works fine in my PS2, but with my daughter's PS2, I can't even get the CDR boot disc to even load (but it works just fine on mine.) That's another puzzle to solve for another day. If nothing else, I can always convert the CDR image to be read as a DVD image, then burn it to DVD (which will be such a waste of the dvd considering one CDR's worth of coding on a dvd is no more than a mere 10 second burn to dvd.) It's like a hair-line sized burn.
I had mentioned a friend of mine that has an old style PS2 as well. None of the backups I've sent him work, which I always test on my console before sending. He has to reburn them to Maxwells and/or Memorex. That's what triggered me to get my hands on some as well, which proved to be a success on my daughter's PS2.
If nothing else, I'll Ebay out her PS2 system modded as is, and get her a slim-line like mine. I'd say once the PS3 is released, PS2s will drop even more in price. Then, daughter/father will be both using Taiyo Yudens.
Without a doubt though, I still back-up the concept that everyone should use the TY brand. Movies I've burned to them play successfully in my PS2, Xbox, and my Apex DVD Player (original marketed version - big black unit with NTSC/PAL capibilies). Let me clear that up a bit. TYG02s with games/movies burned to them play in all of my devices per required device. TYG03s with games/movies play well in everything but my PS2. Though, this thread has already solved my issue with that.
I have to say, this forum, and this thread especially, has been a great help. The sharing of knowledge is the link that binds us all together. It's the atmosphere in here that brings one back for more assistance. All we need now is a huge round table about the size of Wal-mart to sit around and discuss all of this face-to-face - hahaha. Just don't ask me to buy the first round of drinks - lol.
Phaser1.
Yahoo: CJ_Malone
MSN Messenger: PM me to find out.
AOL: Dorashubby
This message has been edited since posting. Last time this message was edited on 28. July 2006 @ 03:54
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2006 @ 03:59 |
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@greensman
change friends. LOL
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2006 @ 04:08 |
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LOL
man, this has been the "kick-start" to my friday~ :)
a good laugh is juss what da doctor ordered...good one garmoon~ LOL
docTY
Recommended Media:
Taiyo Yuden 4x dvd-r TYGO1/ 8x dvd-r TYGO2/ 8x dvd+r YUDEN000T02/ 16x dvd+r YUDEN000T03
Verbatim 8x dvd+r MCC003
Verbatim dvd+r DL (MKM001)= flawless no compression backups
"Do Yourself A Favor, Use The Good Stuff
TY & Verbs 4 Life~ :)" ~docTY~
"Its better to be quiet and appear stupid, then to open your mouth and remove all doubt."
I am always prepared to recognize that there can be two points of view - mine and one that is probably wrong - John Gorton
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2006 @ 16:21 |
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@ Phaser Never let anyone accuse of being short winded. :)
I don't doubt your PS2 credentials, 400 backups is more than I have. Tweaking the laser really isn't that hard, I got a crash course in it awhile back. Basically you take it out, reseat it, and that can help calibrate it. In between you pry the metal piece off top of the gears, remove the gear arms, and unattach the laser ribbon, and reseat it. It took me awhile, as I attempted this on a couple hours sleep lol. I wouldn't worry about it yet, I suggested to try burning games at 8x. It's not necessarily going to make a difference, but worth a try. My fat PS2 loves TY's, in either format. I've read +R's don't work well on Xbox, but Yuden000T02 works well from what I've seen. I got some minor skipping in a couple of the Prince of Persia Games, though it seemed likely the original would produce similar results. Either way, I've been fortunate in getting good batches of TY's, and my burner seems to crank em out no probs. It's surprising to see two knowledgeable people have issues with TY's in the same thread. As you can imagine, a lot of people who have problems with TY's aren't the sharpest tools in the shed. Anyway, hope you get it sorted, if all else fails find some RitekG05. Usually you can find them under the Maxell label at Wal-Mart, the 50 spidnles of DVD-R's with a gold/yellow surface.
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AfterDawn Addict
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28. July 2006 @ 16:30 |
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@garmoon,
At least they didn't get the original. LOL. I'm glad I could be a part of starting the Doc's day off right. LMAO.
@Mort81,
I have looked at those sites and will try to impliment the info from them. Thanks again.
@kivory666,
I looked at getting some of the TYG03's (Sony 16X at CC with octagonal spacer) but decided against it because I couldn't book-type it and you still seem to think they may have issues with most drives out there. Did I do the right thing?
.......c
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AfterDawn Addict
4 product reviews
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28. July 2006 @ 16:56 |
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@greensman
i just got a 50pc sony 16x DVD-R mij that are TYS.i have been able to find them easier than the +r format..try those out. i have done 4 burns on them allready at 12x speed and they have been perfect burns..i have a crappy pioneer player and it seems it only likes -r's i found them sony 16x-r's mij ty's and love them....hope this helps
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